I disagree: A public forum is for anything the public wishes to discuss. Open and honest discussion will help you sell your new motor kits, which clearly many people on this and other forums are interested in discovering details of.
Has anyone heard of or tried Toseven mid drive?
- Thread starter Domm
- Start date
All the issues we discuss are general interest: what it is, how well it does what it is supposed to do, how much will it cost, how does it compare against nearest competitors, can it use OSF firmware, how well some of the known issues with the TSDZ2 sorted? How easy is it to service?
I do have a list of my own concerns as a reseller.
Nice to hear this.
Yes, that is the problem with Discord. You must register to view content.
Also it isn't an ordinary forum, but more of a chat environment, but at least you can use it without installing software.
Ofcourse these subjects are important to know before an end user will decide to go with an unknown new design. But imho the answer to such questions do cost time and imho Alex isn't the person that can do this all. He needs backup of ToSeven.
I expect more info from ToSeven on their website. They must convince end users to choose their DM-xx motor. Otherwise end users will wait for reviews of early adopters.
I agree with that, but I wonder if trolling will help with answers.
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Let's steer our way away from attacks? Forum members here who have asked questions to no less than THREE ToSeven representatives are still awaiting answers to those questions. If you are unsure of what those questions are, please do take the time to read and respond to the many posts on this thread. If you continue to ignore the many questions asked, this very accessible thread will remain a public relations disaster for Toseven. An increasingly visible one.
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I even PMed toseven's KatLee asking for commercial information and received no answer. This is very unusual in Chinese business dealings. You can see why I am skeptical about release date and specs.
Personally, I post announcements of any of new product only when the container has left Ningbo.
Personally, I post announcements of any of new product only when the container has left Ningbo.
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Yes they do, but not with crank motors.
"Dependable and cheap" is the definition of hub motors. Many of us have been using them for many years with no problems. The one on my main bike is now 9 years old (about 8000 miles) and still going strong without a single issue and no maintenance at all. In all the time I've been ebiking, I never had a single issue with a hub-motor, and I bet many other forum members can say the same. Problems are extremely rare. On the other hand, nearly everybody has a problem with their crank motor sooner or later, and sometimes more than once, regardless of how much they paid for it.
big thanks to peter @performane line bearings
it was always the plan to put the cx motor on this thing and peter made it happen and 24hr postage as well :cool: got it on in 30 mins and can feel the extra 15nm that the cx motor puts out than the 60 from the performance motor. old motor on the box and new one installed, felt a bit stiff...
www.pedelecs.co.uk
new bearings and new transfer gear my old motor is still going today just not on my bike as have a custom cx now
Yes
Yes but you've hardly used it. I have a bike with a GNG crank motor that's still going after 11 years and will probably be the same for the rest of my life unless someone wants to buy it. The Bosch motor mean time to breakdown was about 1700 miles a few years ago. I don't know how much they've improved that today.big thanks to peter @performane line bearings
it was always the plan to put the cx motor on this thing and peter made it happen and 24hr postage as well :cool: got it on in 30 mins and can feel the extra 15nm that the cx motor puts out than the 60 from the performance motor. old motor on the box and new one installed, felt a bit stiff...
new bearings and new transfer gear my old motor is still going today just not on my bike as have a custom cx now
I follow threads about Toseven here, on ES and on Discord.
I do see a public relations disaster but only here and i really don't think it is Alex fault. I feel sorry for people with mental issue but it is also such a pain for people around. Take care.
i had 6000 miles on my old motor b4 i sent it to peter and as i have a dongle its double that as only records half speed and mileage over 10 mph
on my kiox display i have 655 miles from the new cx motor from peter to date i bet bosch is pissed
on my kiox display i have 655 miles from the new cx motor from peter to date i bet bosch is pissed
Blimey that's a long time. Which one GNG mid motor is it? This one? Why has your GNG lasted so long? How many bearing changes? Can't say I'm looking forward to changing the bearings on my BBS01B - there's no indication yet that it needs that doing.
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Between 6,000 and 12,000 miles on one set of bearings?!??!?i had 6000 miles on my old motor b4 i sent it to peter and as i have a dongle its double that as only records half speed and mileage over 10 mph
alexfnoble said:
But dependable and cheap rarely go hand in hand.
It is my benchmark product.
But dependable and cheap rarely go hand in hand.
I paid $25 more for my BBS01B 48V 15A compared to my TSDZ2 48V 15A with throttle but over the years, support incidents are extremely rare. So from that point of view, the BBS01B 48V 15A is dependable and cheap.
It is my benchmark product.
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It does appear on paper that some of the tsdz2 shortcomings have been addressed. Obviously will want to see that reflected in real world experiences.
As for the motor incorrectly mounted, I am aware that the tsdz2 case is prone to shearing if not mounted correctly.
I think there are some open questions on thermal conductivity / management. I think part of the tsdz2 issue is that there appears like there is little thermal protection. It would not be so bad if the motor reduced output or cutout if overheating. As an end user, how are you to know if the motor is working too hard for too long? I know you can add a sensor to the tsdz2 and use osf, but I'm talking out the box here. From what I understand, the aftermarket thermal mods to the tsdz2 are actually quite effective and simple. The 1.6mm aluminium bridge between the motor and housing looks good, wish I could find a source in the UK...
One of the other big reliability issues with the tsdz2 is water ingress. I know this is tough to solve, but it is important. Not heard anything about this on the ToSeven offerings yet.
I don't know how big an issue the blue gear really is. Cost wise, if it needs to be replaced every few thousand miles then not a big deal. It's not hard to replace but also not completely trivial. The main issue is the hassle factor I think. I suspect it becomes more of an issue the more power you try and put through the motor.
I would hope that my tsdz2 will be good for > 5000 miles with some blue gear / bearing replacements and good care, that's about 2 years of cycling for me. If it's service life is less than that it does not really stack up financially. If say I was going to pay double the price for a motor, I would expect the service life to double as well. I'm currently on 400 miles in 4 weeks.
As for the motor incorrectly mounted, I am aware that the tsdz2 case is prone to shearing if not mounted correctly.
I think there are some open questions on thermal conductivity / management. I think part of the tsdz2 issue is that there appears like there is little thermal protection. It would not be so bad if the motor reduced output or cutout if overheating. As an end user, how are you to know if the motor is working too hard for too long? I know you can add a sensor to the tsdz2 and use osf, but I'm talking out the box here. From what I understand, the aftermarket thermal mods to the tsdz2 are actually quite effective and simple. The 1.6mm aluminium bridge between the motor and housing looks good, wish I could find a source in the UK...
One of the other big reliability issues with the tsdz2 is water ingress. I know this is tough to solve, but it is important. Not heard anything about this on the ToSeven offerings yet.
I don't know how big an issue the blue gear really is. Cost wise, if it needs to be replaced every few thousand miles then not a big deal. It's not hard to replace but also not completely trivial. The main issue is the hassle factor I think. I suspect it becomes more of an issue the more power you try and put through the motor.
I would hope that my tsdz2 will be good for > 5000 miles with some blue gear / bearing replacements and good care, that's about 2 years of cycling for me. If it's service life is less than that it does not really stack up financially. If say I was going to pay double the price for a motor, I would expect the service life to double as well. I'm currently on 400 miles in 4 weeks.
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solving the heat issue is a must for those who want to push the motor above its factory default setting.
That's why I exclude OSF firmware from our guarantee.
Water ingress has no permanent solution at present besides gluing every possible entries.
The bluegear damage is usually accidental and covered by warranty. This is where the BBS01 scores well.
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Man it's like the Toseven guys have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder ! ! I vote we crowdfund to send them Ritalin!
! ! I vote we crowdfund to send them Ritalin!
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The heat issue of Tsdz2 was there too with factory firmware, if you does ride a lot of mountain up. With OSF it was possible to limit the temperature rise, by throttle down the motor, which wasn't ideal. The heat conductive material inside the airgaps was a lot more effective.
I understand that To7 has done this with his DM serie.
I have heard that the dm-01 does not have the air gap, not sure if this applied to the dm-02 as well? Engineering wise, it feels like a simple fix. I don't have osf but still try to be easy on my tsdz2 as I really am in the dark about how hot the motor gets. Most of the time it's fine I'm sure, but I have the motor to help me up big hills, for me that's it's purpose in life! If I didn't live on top a big hill I would not need a kit at all. Let us hope that the thermal issues are indeed addressed in both motors.
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