Generic battery replacement for Mahle X35 system

[PJ53YYY]

The battery on my Mahle X35 system has packed up. A Mahle replacement battery pack is too expensive. I am looking to replace the battery etc with generic kit fitted to the frame rather than in it. Any suggestions?
I did connect up a Swytch kit to the Mahle hub but the motor just turns on and then immediately turns off every few of seconds. The pedal sensor is fine, the same happens in walk mode.

 

[soundwave]

can bus encrypted they all do it to lock the batts to there motors then rip off prices

 

[saneagle]

The battery on my Mahle X35 system has packed up. A Mahle replacement battery pack is too expensive. I am looking to replace the battery etc with generic kit fitted to the frame rather than in it. Any suggestions?
I did connect up a Swytch kit to the Mahle hub but the motor just turns on and then immediately turns off every few of seconds. The pedal sensor is fine, the same happens in walk mode.

Ask this guy if he had any success:

KT controller compatibility with Mahle

does anyone know if a KT controller will work with a Mahle x35 hub motor? The motor has the 9 pin connector.

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[Peter.Bridge]

@saneagle what about rigging up a "generic" battery "in parallel" as some members have done with their Bosch systems ? ( I think this is how the x35 "range extenders" work)

 

[PJ53YYY]

"can bus encrypted they all do it to lock the batts to there motors then rip off prices"

Rotten swines :-(

 

[sjpt]

Good luck. Judging by the number of complaints about X35 batteries on Cycling UK forum anyone who solves this will be highly lauded by many.

eg https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=156980

 

[matthewslack]

I'm not familiar with the system in detail. Perhaps someone is...

It is not clear to me if the motor is just a normal hub motor or whether there is more going on inside it than normal.

This dongle that fits in the motor cable looks like the normal 9 pin wiring, and presumably works using the motor internal speed sensor.



and this 'controller' suggests the controller is inside the battery, which would allow the motor to be just a hub motor.



If the motor is 'standard generic 9 pin connection', then the option exist to replace everything except the motor with standard generic kit.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

An "old" thread here

DYI Battery Extender

Battery Extender Continuing with the experiences and learning of the Orbea Gain D50, I have come to the conclusion that it will not be bad to have a battery extension system. We have optimized the administration of the energy available in the main battery to the maximum, we have gotten...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

An "old" thread here

DYI Battery Extender

Battery Extender Continuing with the experiences and learning of the Orbea Gain D50, I have come to the conclusion that it will not be bad to have a battery extension system. We have optimized the administration of the energy available in the main battery to the maximum, we have gotten...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

The range extender works differently to other additional batteries, like say the Bosch double battery system. It works like a powerbank charger for your phone. It gives a fixed 2A charge through the main battery's charge port all the time you're riding. If you ride using an average of more than 2 amps, which is 50w help at the wheel, it won't keep up, so you wouldn't get all the charge out of it unless you stop for a long time to let it catch up. It's a very weird way to do it.

It should be possible to use any extender battery by wiring it to the Mahle battery's main power output wires with blocking diodes in series. That would probably only work if the Mahle battery sends the signal that it's OK. The X35's controller is inside the battery unit, so that would probably involve difficult surgery. If they've combined the BMS and controller, it would probably be impossible.

The speed derestrictor device uses the principle I proposed. It interrupts and spoofs the speed signal. You can make your own for the cost of the two connectors. It appears to have a standard 9-pin Julet connector, but the motor has the PAS activated by the freehub. I've never seen one to figure out how that works. If the sensor is external, all good, but if its internal, it would need either an extra wire in the harness to carry its signal or a comms unit in the motor to send the data along with the speed signal, and the speed derestrictor must translate the speed signal.

Until someone opens up one of these systems, we can only theorise. AFAICS, it's pretty well locked, so avoid unless you don't mind keeping it as it is and paying for repairs. There are motors from Bafang and AKM that do the job just as well that can use any controller and battery for a fraction of the price.

 

[PJ53YYY]

@saneagle what about rigging up a "generic" battery "in parallel" as some members have done with their Bosch systems ? ( I think this is how the x35 "range extenders" work)

Thanks for that suggestion but I wouldn't know where to start with that. Also, it sounds like adding more weight to the bike. If I could have got the Swytch system to work, I would have taken out the Mahle batteries.

 

[PJ53YYY]

An "old" thread here

DYI Battery Extender

Battery Extender Continuing with the experiences and learning of the Orbea Gain D50, I have come to the conclusion that it will not be bad to have a battery extension system. We have optimized the administration of the energy available in the main battery to the maximum, we have gotten...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Now that really is complicated!

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Thanks for that suggestion but I wouldn't know where to start with that. Also, it sounds like adding more weight to the bike. If I could have got the Swytch system to work, I would have taken out the Mahle batteries.

Yes , sorry I don't really have any answers, apart from perhaps selling your existing bike, buy a sub 10kg road bike off facebook marketplace (£500 for a nice one) and adding a AKM-75 front hub motor (1.44 kg) (or Bafang G370) and a top quality celled 36V 10Ah bag battery (1.8kg) and small LCD4 display (total cost around £350-£400 , total weight < 4kg). I have my suspicions that this would be as good as an X35 solution to ride, but someone would need to try it. This would cost as much as fitting a new X35 battery !

 

[PJ53YYY]

Incidentally, I fitted the Swytch kit to the bike as normal per Swytch instructions and as fitted to my other bikes with the Swytch kit. Except instead of plugging the motor cable (9 pin) into the Swytch hub cable, I plugged it into the Mahle hub cable. I have another bike with the Swytch kit set up with a non-Swytch hub and that works fine.

 

[PJ53YYY]

Yes , sorry I don't really have any answers, apart from perhaps selling your existing bike, buy a sub 10kg road bike off facebook marketplace (£500 for a nice one) and adding a AKM-75 front hub motor (1.44 kg) and a top quality celled 36V 10Ah bag battery (1.8kg) and small LCD4 display (total cost around £350-£400 , total weight < 4kg). I have my suspicions that this would be as good as an X35 solution to ride, but someone would need to try it. This would cost as much as fitting a new X35 battery !

I really liked the bike, a Orbea Gain D40. So I'm pretty fed up that the Mahle system only lasted 3 years. Although I see in the latest Cycling UK mag they state that ebike batteries only last between 3 and 5 years! Of course, what is really frustrating is the cost of replacing the battery pack.
I still can't decide what to do with it. I have thought of stripping off all the ebike stuff and riding it manual or as in this tread fitting a different system; selling it for spares or repairs; or have a new battery fitted and then selling it. I see the new list price for the bike is £3,300! However, I won't be able to sell it on eBay.
Thanks for all your responses.