Generic battery replacement for Mahle X35 system

PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
The battery on my Mahle X35 system has packed up. A Mahle replacement battery pack is too expensive. I am looking to replace the battery etc with generic kit fitted to the frame rather than in it. Any suggestions?
I did connect up a Swytch kit to the Mahle hub but the motor just turns on and then immediately turns off every few of seconds. The pedal sensor is fine, the same happens in walk mode.
 

soundwave

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can bus encrypted they all do it to lock the batts to there motors then rip off prices
 

saneagle

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The battery on my Mahle X35 system has packed up. A Mahle replacement battery pack is too expensive. I am looking to replace the battery etc with generic kit fitted to the frame rather than in it. Any suggestions?
I did connect up a Swytch kit to the Mahle hub but the motor just turns on and then immediately turns off every few of seconds. The pedal sensor is fine, the same happens in walk mode.
Ask this guy if he had any success:
 
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Peter.Bridge

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@saneagle what about rigging up a "generic" battery "in parallel" as some members have done with their Bosch systems ? ( I think this is how the x35 "range extenders" work)
 
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PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
"can bus encrypted they all do it to lock the batts to there motors then rip off prices"

Rotten swines :-(
 

matthewslack

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I'm not familiar with the system in detail. Perhaps someone is...

It is not clear to me if the motor is just a normal hub motor or whether there is more going on inside it than normal.

This dongle that fits in the motor cable looks like the normal 9 pin wiring, and presumably works using the motor internal speed sensor.

Screenshot_20241015-095416_Chrome.jpg

and this 'controller' suggests the controller is inside the battery, which would allow the motor to be just a hub motor.

Screenshot_20241015-095507_Chrome.jpg

If the motor is 'standard generic 9 pin connection', then the option exist to replace everything except the motor with standard generic kit.
 
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Peter.Bridge

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An "old" thread here

 

saneagle

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An "old" thread here

The range extender works differently to other additional batteries, like say the Bosch double battery system. It works like a powerbank charger for your phone. It gives a fixed 2A charge through the main battery's charge port all the time you're riding. If you ride using an average of more than 2 amps, which is 50w help at the wheel, it won't keep up, so you wouldn't get all the charge out of it unless you stop for a long time to let it catch up. It's a very weird way to do it.

It should be possible to use any extender battery by wiring it to the Mahle battery's main power output wires with blocking diodes in series. That would probably only work if the Mahle battery sends the signal that it's OK. The X35's controller is inside the battery unit, so that would probably involve difficult surgery. If they've combined the BMS and controller, it would probably be impossible.

The speed derestrictor device uses the principle I proposed. It interrupts and spoofs the speed signal. You can make your own for the cost of the two connectors. It appears to have a standard 9-pin Julet connector, but the motor has the PAS activated by the freehub. I've never seen one to figure out how that works. If the sensor is external, all good, but if its internal, it would need either an extra wire in the harness to carry its signal or a comms unit in the motor to send the data along with the speed signal, and the speed derestrictor must translate the speed signal.

Until someone opens up one of these systems, we can only theorise. AFAICS, it's pretty well locked, so avoid unless you don't mind keeping it as it is and paying for repairs. There are motors from Bafang and AKM that do the job just as well that can use any controller and battery for a fraction of the price.
 
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PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
@saneagle what about rigging up a "generic" battery "in parallel" as some members have done with their Bosch systems ? ( I think this is how the x35 "range extenders" work)
Thanks for that suggestion but I wouldn't know where to start with that. Also, it sounds like adding more weight to the bike. If I could have got the Swytch system to work, I would have taken out the Mahle batteries.
 
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PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
An "old" thread here

Now that really is complicated!
 

Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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Thanks for that suggestion but I wouldn't know where to start with that. Also, it sounds like adding more weight to the bike. If I could have got the Swytch system to work, I would have taken out the Mahle batteries.
Yes , sorry I don't really have any answers, apart from perhaps selling your existing bike, buy a sub 10kg road bike off facebook marketplace (£500 for a nice one) and adding a AKM-75 front hub motor (1.44 kg) (or Bafang G370) and a top quality celled 36V 10Ah bag battery (1.8kg) and small LCD4 display (total cost around £350-£400 , total weight < 4kg). I have my suspicions that this would be as good as an X35 solution to ride, but someone would need to try it. This would cost as much as fitting a new X35 battery !
 
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PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
Incidentally, I fitted the Swytch kit to the bike as normal per Swytch instructions and as fitted to my other bikes with the Swytch kit. Except instead of plugging the motor cable (9 pin) into the Swytch hub cable, I plugged it into the Mahle hub cable. I have another bike with the Swytch kit set up with a non-Swytch hub and that works fine.
 
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PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
Yes , sorry I don't really have any answers, apart from perhaps selling your existing bike, buy a sub 10kg road bike off facebook marketplace (£500 for a nice one) and adding a AKM-75 front hub motor (1.44 kg) and a top quality celled 36V 10Ah bag battery (1.8kg) and small LCD4 display (total cost around £350-£400 , total weight < 4kg). I have my suspicions that this would be as good as an X35 solution to ride, but someone would need to try it. This would cost as much as fitting a new X35 battery !
I really liked the bike, a Orbea Gain D40. So I'm pretty fed up that the Mahle system only lasted 3 years. Although I see in the latest Cycling UK mag they state that ebike batteries only last between 3 and 5 years! Of course, what is really frustrating is the cost of replacing the battery pack.
I still can't decide what to do with it. I have thought of stripping off all the ebike stuff and riding it manual or as in this tread fitting a different system; selling it for spares or repairs; or have a new battery fitted and then selling it. I see the new list price for the bike is £3,300! However, I won't be able to sell it on eBay.
Thanks for all your responses.
 

PJ53YYY

Finding my (electric) wheels
Sep 29, 2024
15
9
Well, I decided to try and sell it with the duff battery. I was able to list it on eBay, ebike ban for private sellers not in force yet, and I have received a bid. At the current price, ownership of the bike would have cost me about £100 a month ‍♂
 
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saneagle

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Oct 10, 2010
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Well, I decided to try and sell it with the duff battery. I was able to list it on eBay, ebike ban for private sellers not in force yet, and I have received a bid. At the current price, ownership of the bike would have cost me about £100 a month ‍♂
That's not bad. If you look back at the adverts in the classified section, you'll see people who bought Riese and Muller bikes for about £6K, then sold them for half of that a few months later with a couple of hundred miles on the clock. Remember, no matter how bad it seems, there are always people who got it worse than you - by a lot.
 
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Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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Well, I decided to try and sell it with the duff battery. I was able to list it on eBay, ebike ban for private sellers not in force yet, and I have received a bid. At the current price, ownership of the bike would have cost me about £100 a month ‍♂
Are you going to try and build a lightweight road electric bike with similar characteristics out of generic parts ?

This would be my attempt

Bafang G370 hub


36v15ah Panasonic bag battery

KT T06S 15 amp controller with LCD4 and Pas, no brake sensor or throttle

Almost New Road bike !



Knock him down £50 and it comes to < £1000 and weighs 14.5 kg with 540wh bag battery or under 14 kg with 360wh battery
 
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chris_n

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Apr 29, 2016
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Sorry but there is no way I would entertain a front hub especially with a generic heavyweight rim on a lightweight agile road bike. Rear hub yes, would still want a decent rim though. Gyroscopes on lightweight bikes are horrible.
 

Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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Sorry but there is no way I would entertain a front hub especially with a generic heavyweight rim on a lightweight agile road bike. Rear hub yes, would still want a decent rim though. Gyroscopes on lightweight bikes are horrible.
Ok 400g heavier but a rear hub cassette motor and you can get your own rim built

 

Nealh

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Aug 7, 2014
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A front hublike the G370 or an AKM75SX can't be compared to other generic geared hubs, they so small and light that they will have little or no effect on the bikes handling.
 

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