Front hub 48v motor for very hilly area

[BidelloZ]

It's nice to see that someone gets it.

Don’t get me wrong, I think the nice and tidy p&p options are great, especially for those that use their bike like their cars: ride it and take it to the workshop if something is wrong, or even for simple maintenance.

I’m far from that however: wanted a cargo bike, had the option to buy an Riese&Müller at the local shop for “just” over 6k. Bosch motor, front nice box, full sus. No brainer.

Instead, I searched and bought second hand what I believe is the most versatile cargo bike ever: Larry vs Harry Bullitt bike (Danish). Look it up.

Found one with a BBSHD motor and 52v battery. Full kit from Lunacycle.
Very fast, plenty of torque uphill. No front box.

Built the box you see in the pics above.

Removed the BBSHD. Silly move maybe, but too much power and horrible handling. Was OK-ish!in assist level 1-2, from 3 was scary, assist 5 actually stupid. Still want a bike, not a motorbike. On the display I’ve read the motor (of course modded with a Luna own software) was well beyond 2400w. Uphill was ridiculous. Only needed to slightly pedal for the motor to pull us up, or a light touch of throttle. Kept tightening the BB as the motor tended to become loosen it. Ultimately it was chewing on the alu frame.
Sold the whole kit for good money. It would have been optimal for a fat bike or better on a full on DH bike. I believe the chap I sold it to is fitting it onto suck bike.

If I lived in the flats I wouldn’t have bothered with a motor, but also can’t help tinkering (I own a VW T5 and whoever does knows those are works in progress for life and never ever get finished)

We’re off the Outer Hebrides for a few days, as soon as I can will report links etc for you guys checking my shopping list. And of course, pics and descriptions of my build when I get the bits.

Many thanks again

 

[BidelloZ]

Hi all,

Back from the western isles, ready to get back onto my project!

Whilst camping in Harris, saw this guy putting back his bike on the back of his campervan, noticed had a rear hub motor, and went to talk to him. It was an XOFO hub motor. That's all I could get out of him he said he got the bike second hand and knew nothing about it, apart from the fact it worked "wery well".

That got me interested, had a browse online and found that Suzhou Xofo Motors got a rather decent website. So wondering whether I should consider Xofo as an option at all.

Back to the original task.

- Found that if I go for an SWX02 I'll have to get if from Aliexpress, as per links above.

- BMSbattery sells the BPM2. Also found a "QBPM" from an italian shop, unsure of this motor, but this is readily available. http://www.alcedoitalia.it/it/anteriori/305-motore-anteriore-per-bici-elettrica-bafang-qbpm.html

- Overall I'm still leaning towards the SWX02 as per your recommendation guys. I'm thinking I might try and get a BB torque sensor and CA3 as I much prefer torque sensing over cadence, but that is something I might do in the future.

How slow/fast is Aliexpress?

Cheers

 

[vfr400]

Xofo didn't used to like selling to individuals, though they do make some exceptions. You can sometimes fin their motors on Aliexpress. Their motors are basically Bafang clones, and they work very well. I see there's a reseller on Ebay at the moment.

 

[BidelloZ]

Xofo didn't used to like selling to individuals, though they do make some exceptions. You can sometimes fin their motors on Aliexpress. Their motors are basically Bafang clones, and they work very well. I see there's a reseller on Ebay at the moment.

Oh really? Never checked eBay for Xofo, I did for other bits and apparently there is a reseller for controllers, LCDs etc. Pricier that Aliexpress of course.

Since I can't get a full kit just on eBay or other European shop I will probably have to resort to buying in China and having everything shipped. Thanks for replying

 

[Nealh]

XOFO xfv 250W freewheel.
I have one somewhere that I have never used, one day I may get around to it.

 

[BidelloZ]

XOFO xfv 250W freewheel.
I have one somewhere that I have never used, one day I may get around to it.

Do they make a front version too?

I am putting together my shopping list and have seen this shop in Germany that got some hubs, controllers etc available. Not much more expensive than Aliexpress.

What are EBS motors? Some Bafang clones rebranded for that particular shop?

They do have a BPM, and these EBS hubs which I'm not sure are good at all.

Should I consider buying from this shop rather than Aliexpress?

Anyway, if I have to stay onto the SWX02 then I've got to order it from Aliexpress.

So here's my (tentative) shopping list.

- SWX02 (do I pick the 48V350W @325rpm or the 48V500w @400rpm?)

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

- Controller (between the following two, the difference is just the waterproof connectors? I'm not bothered with them, but as far as I understand I should go for a sine wave controller. Is the non-fancy connectors a sine wave controller too?)

Waterproof Electric Bicycle Controller, Dual Mode, Hall Sensor, Sensorless, LED, LCD, 36V, 48V, 500W, 22A, 9 Mosfet - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

Page Not Found - Aliexpress.com

- Display

Electric Bicycle Display KT LCD Meter LCD3 LCD8HU LCD5 For KT Intelligent Controller 24V 36V 48V Ebike Panel Julet waterproof - AliExpress 18

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

- Throttle

6.56￡ |Wuxing Electric Bicycle Throttle | Thumb Throttle Electric Bike - Waterproof Thumb - Aliexpress

Smarter Shopping, Better Living! Aliexpress.com

www.aliexpress.com

OK I have an important question:

If I just buy the motor, the controller and the throttle, the system will work fine right?

Just on throttle, of course.

I'd like to test it before I decide whether to just get the simple Display above and add a cadence sensor on the BB, or go for a torque sensor and get the CA3 to do the rest.

Many thanks!

 

[vfr400]

You must buy the LCD with the controller to be sure of software version compatibility. It's also a good idea to get the speed sensor, PAS and throttle from the same supplier, so that you get compatible connectors.

325 RPM is about right. if you get a faster motor, you're exceeding what the bike is capable of in terms of tyre grip and braking. also, you find that you get a lot more trouble from card etc, who don't recognise your speed. they pull out on you and overtake you just before a junction or other stop, which makes you have to brake hard. Before long, you realise that it's quite uncomfortable going fast because of the amount of concentration you need all the time. 325 rpm will have you happily cruising at 20 - 22 mph.

Also, fast motors overheat when you go up steep hills. The slower the motor is, the more efficient it is for hill-climbing, which is one of the reasons a 160 rpm Xiongda can winch you up a 30% hill.

You can buy stuff from wherever you want. I've never had a problem with any of these online suppliers whether Chinese or not.

Also, the motors are much of a muchness. I never consider the brand now. I go by the speed, size/weight and whether I need a cassette version.

 

[BidelloZ]

Sweet, thanks.

In fact I was looking for a slower motor, but can’t find a slower 48V SWX02. Will have another look.

Re display and controller, well yes I guess I can just get one of those packages with controller, display, throttle, cadence sensors etc. However ideally would like to end up with a torque sensor, which is why I wanted to test motor on throttle alone. Cheers

 

[BidelloZ]

Just to complicate the matter, what if I got the 40v 201 rpm Q128 from BMSbattery?

Q128 48V400W-500W Front Driving V-Brake Hub Motor RPM 328

Q128 48V400W-500W Front Driving V-brake, rim-brake E-Bike Hub Motor. Waterproof hall sensor connector.

bmsbattery.com

 

[vfr400]

It's the same in all respects as the 328 rpm 48V one apart from the label.

 

[BidelloZ]

It's the same in all respects as the 328 rpm 48V one apart from the label.

You mean it’s the same as the SWX02 48v350w 325rpm?

 

[vfr400]

No, same as the 48v 328 rpm Q128. The 36v one is not 201 rpm, it's actually 260 rpm (at 36v).

 

[BidelloZ]

No, same as the 48v 328 rpm Q128. The 36v one is not 201 rpm, it's actually 260 rpm (at 36v).

Ah, got it, thanks.

Sorry don’t know why the 36v option popped up.
These websites are a bit confusing.

You can only select the winding, it says the motor is a Q128 48v400-500w (guess I’d get a different rating by selecting a different rpm?).
For 20’’ rima the faster winding is recommended, or so they say

 

[vfr400]

Basically, you should select the slowest 48v version, which they list as 201 rpm.

I know in the past that they were actually that speed, but later, they started selling 260 rpm Q128s as 201 rpm versions, so there were two versions of the 36v one, which were 260 and 328 rpm. When you increase the voltage to 48v, the speed goes up in proportion, so the 36v 201 rpm (actually 260 rpm) becomes actual 328 rpm. Therefore, the 48v 328 rpm motor is the same as the 36v 201 rpm (actual 260 rpm)one.

They made the H by increasing the reduction ratio of the basic Q128, so the 328 rpm Q128 became the 260 rpm Q128H. It was simple to understand then because you had 201 rpm and 328 rpm Q128 and 260 rpm Q128H. All were 36v. Since then, they seem to have got mixed up with their designations and speeds, so it's difficult to figure out what you'll get, though you will only be a max of 33% out on speed. The 48v ones will all be 33% higher rpm than the 36v equivalents, so 36v 201 rpm becomes 260 rpm, 260 rpm becomes 328 rpm and 328 rpm becomes 400 rpm.

Got it? It confuses me enough, so probably your head is exploding.

 

[BidelloZ]

Ahahaha, yes very confusing!

Actually the easiest is what I was doing in the first place: selecting the 201rpm winding

Hate it they can't make sure I get an Q128H

I'll double check when including shipping etc, and will see whether I'm better off ordering the Q128 or the SWX02.

 

[BidelloZ]

Righto,

Basically two options to choose from:

Aliexpress (C&D store) and get the SWX02 (either the 48v350W 325rpm, which should be enough for my 20'' wheel, or the 48v500w 400rpm), then a 48v 22A controller, PAS, LCD3 and throttle.
Free delivery, 300 USD, about £240.

BMSbattery, and get either the Q128 48v400-500w (201 rpm), or the BPM2 48v500w, then again controller, PAS, LCD3, throttle.
Including shipping, it's about 300 USD for the BPM2 and a bit cheaper for the Q128 (around 250 USD).

ALSO: BMSbattery got these Torque Simulation controllers. Are they worth it? Work well? Or better stick with a 22A sine wave one?

Apart from all that, more tempted for the Bafang motors, although the Q128 means no wattage on the motor body, so less work involved.


Cheers

 

[vfr400]

Sorry, I forgot you had a 20" wheel. You need 328 rpm.

 

[BidelloZ]

Sorry, I forgot you had a 20" wheel. You need 328 rpm.

Right, so if going for the Q128, I’ll select the 328rpm. Thanks.

How about the torque simulation?

 

[BidelloZ]

One more shop to add to my list (didn't notice they also do controllers and not crank drive motors only).

PSWpower

Can only get a complete package from them (48V 22A controller, throttle, display, PAS) but have to source the motor as per the posts above:

36V/48V 500W 9Mosfets 20A Brushless DC Torque Simulation Square Wave Controller? - PSWPOWER.com

www.pswpower.com

This is a torque simulation square wave controller.

Opposed to the sine wave which I see recommended for silent operations.

So which is what I need to go after?

 

[vfr400]

You should get sine wave 48v 22 amps.