Electric Mountain Bikes: No one will buy one?!..

[Gubbins]

Especially the obese ones!
.

Ha. Ha....
I read that today... and here's another.
If you cycle the wrong way down a one way street at least you will see the hazard coming towards you... usually black with the word taxi on the roof.
Oh, but I think that's ileagal on a dongled bike as well.

 

[JohnCade]

I don't think anyone would not be aware that the bike costs x and the bike + dongle costs x+150£. Let's not underestimate the level of knowledge of an ebike buyer.

I haven't bought one yet and I Googled quite a bit before I chose one to decide and you easily fall on to the dongles and what they do. So I don't agree with the existence of unsespective buyer.

They exist all right and some have posted on threads here at times. As have buyers of S pedelecs who didn’t realise their bikes were illegal to ride in the UK. Equally some buyers might know what dongles do but may well be completely unaware that they risk losing their driving license if involved in a serious accident. Or even possibly by just coming to the attention of a curious copper. Some here have had close calls riding very illegal bikes like that with motor cycle cops. The clarification of the law in the spring makes action against illegal bikes more likely too IMO since there is now a clear law to enforce and not the legal quagmire which existed before.

Other dongle buyers suffer from the all too common misunderstanding that it’s okay to use them off road. An amazing number of people still post here thinking that. So how many people who don’t go on e bike forums must think it? Some sellers of dongles even advertise them for ‘off road use.'

 

[Lost-Again]

Ok first post and I didn't expect it to be on this subject! I'm not even going to go into the dongle discussion directly. However, after after reading all the posts on here, I cannot help adding my bit. The thread loosely focuses on the danger here but I'm sorry if I'm just not getting it. I'm predominantly a road biker who owns and loves his Haibike, regardless of what the "road" core say; they just need to get their head out of "you know what" and try it! I'm no wiggo but my average speed on strava over many long rides is 28k - already over the cutoff. Long sections at 35-40k is normal, 60k the norm downhill and the big boys and clubs are a lot faster. Add to that, a road bike is not as stable as my mountain bike. Hopefully some here will get the message...

 

[soundwave]

60k the norm downhill


thats off road

 

[soundwave]

 

[oldtom]

I cant believe that anyone buying or using a dongle is unaware of the implications, and anyone that is unaware wouldn't think to buy one anyway...

I agree entirely. It never ceases to astonish me how often correspondents here feign ignorance of the legal implications attached to non-compliant machines.

Anyone who manages to use a search engine to find sites like this or ES, then reads some of the posted material cannot help but have some awareness of the regulations relating to EAPCs.

Incredibly, many of these 'innocents' seem to have an amazing awareness of other areas of law such as the SOGA and section 75 of the credit card t&c. Equally, they display an aptitude in so far as where cheap legal advice can be acquired and are happy to rely on aspects of laws which suit their purpose while ignoring those that don't.

Sometimes I really feel for these EAPC sellers in having to deal with discontented customers who are quick to use these pages to tarnish a seller's reputation. 'The dealer never told about that' just doesn't wash with me, I'm afraid. The differences between an EAPC and other types of powered vehicles are easily found using an internet search engine so I have a difficulty imagining that even the most liberal JP would have much sympathy with anyone pleading ignorance if police found a need to prosecute.

How would one answer the question, "What is the purpose of this 'dongle' you have attached to your EAPC?"

Tom

 

[One_Box]

Ok first post and I didn't expect it to be on this subject! I'm not even going to go into the dongle discussion directly. However, after after reading all the posts on here, I cannot help adding my bit. The thread loosely focuses on the danger here but I'm sorry if I'm just not getting it. I'm predominantly a road biker who owns and loves his Haibike, regardless of what the "road" core say; they just need to get their head out of "you know what" and try it! I'm no wiggo but my average speed on strava over many long rides is 28k - already over the cutoff. Long sections at 35-40k is normal, 60k the norm downhill and the big boys and clubs are a lot faster. Add to that, a road bike is not as stable as my mountain bike. Hopefully some here will get the message...

Lost-Again, you are new to this forum so welcome !
Secondly try to keep your posts on topic, this thread has nothing to do with the relative merits of mountain bikes VS road bikes.
If you post your thoughts in a new topic I'm sure you will get plenty of response.

 

[selrahc1992]

Lost-Again, you are new to this forum so welcome !
Secondly try to keep your posts on topic, this thread has nothing to do with the relative merits of mountain bikes VS road bikes.
If you post your thoughts in a new topic I'm sure you will get plenty of response.

actually lost-again is acting entirely in the spirit of this thread - which, btw, has nothing to do with dongles (read the OP) - go for it lost again, derail the derailers

 

[Gubbins]

Lost-Again, you are new to this forum so welcome !
Secondly try to keep your posts on topic, this thread has nothing to do with the relative merits of mountain bikes VS road bikes.
If you post your thoughts in a new topic I'm sure you will get plenty of response.

I think he has a point. There is a suggestion that the extra speed of a dongled bike makes an accident more likely...

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I think he has a point. There is a suggestion that the extra speed of a dongled bike makes an accident more likely...

NO THERE IS NOT!!!! I don't think anyone in their right mind has ever said this.

We all know that a cyclist on a normal bike can easily go faster than the cut off speed, and people can go faster than the cut off speed on a legal bike.

ITS NOT ABOUT THE SPEED.

The ONLY way I can think that it might be about the speed is a situation where a person driving looks up and sees what looks like a leisure cyclist on a full suspension mtb in baggy clothes, so makes a judgement that they have time to pull out... then it turns out that leisure cyclist in baggy clothes is zipping a long at 25mph on the flat, which is normally the speed reserved for serious road cyclists who generally look the part. So said leisure cyclist in baggy clothes gets knocked off because he's going faster then anyone could reasonably expect, because of the dongle.

 

[Gubbins]

NO THERE IS NOT!!!! I don't think anyone in their right mind has ever said this.

We all know that a cyclist on a normal bike can easily go faster than the cut off speed, and people can go faster than the cut off speed on a legal bike.

ITS NOT ABOUT THE SPEED.

The ONLY way I can think that it might be about the speed is a situation where a person driving looks up and sees what looks like a leisure cyclist on a full suspension mtb in baggy clothes, so makes a judgement that they have time to pull out... then it turns out that leisure cyclist in baggy clothes is zipping a long at 25mph on the flat, which is normally the speed reserved for serious road cyclists who generally look the part. So said leisure cyclist in baggy clothes gets knocked off because he's going faster then anyone could reasonably expect, because of the dongle.

No need to shout!
Sorry but I think it's all about and nithing but the speed! Have you just said that someone seeing a casualy dressed cyclist on a mtb might misjudge their speed? Thus making an accident more likely?

 

[JohnCade]

No need to shout!
Sorry but I think it's all about and nithing but the speed! Have you just said that someone seeing a casualy dressed cyclist on a mtb might misjudge their speed? Thus making an accident more likely?

You know I do struggle to understand how some people here can miss a point so spectacularly. It is not about speed it’s about illegality, and how that illegality is going to affect all e bike users eventually. Users of trail centres at first.

I doubt that anyone here gives a monkey’s whether you or anyone else has a dongle fitted. I certainly don’t. But I do care that some people are being misled as to their legality, and that a lot of people are just plain ignorant of the legal position and the potential risks they run. I also care that as very overpowered e bikes become more common and noticed - not dongled bikes BTW - that I might be seen in the same light as the sort of prat who rides an illegal electric motorbike at over 30mph through built up areas in total contempt of the law,

 

[Gubbins]

You know I do struggle to understand how some people here can miss a point so spectacularly. It is not about speed it’s about illegality, and how that illegality is going to affect all e bike users eventually. Particularly users of trail centres.

I doubt that anyone here gives a monkey’s whether you or anyone else has a dongle fitted. I certainly don’t. But I do care that some people are being misled as to their legality, and that a lot of people are just plain ignorant of the legal position and the potential risks they run.

I don't have one nor will I buy one. It might feel very clever to quote all these rules and regs that are just names and numbers to most of the unwashed. But if I were to buy a dongle it would be for one of 2 reasons. .
1) it would make the bike look prettier
2) it would make it go faster.
The legality of it is of little consequence really.

 

[oldtom]

The legality of it is of little consequence really.

I'm very disappointed to read that Phill. I do understand that you are not alone in that view though as several contributors here previously have opined similar sentiments. Unfortunately, trivialising lawbreaking or supporting criminal activity says much about society today. Only when one becomes a direct victim of criminal behaviour is there any outrage displayed, it seems.

Tom

 

[JohnCade]

I don't have one nor will I buy one. It might feel very clever to quote all these rules and regs that are just names and numbers to most of the unwashed. But if I were to buy a dongle it would be for one of 2 reasons. .
1) it would make the bike look prettier
2) it would make it go faster.
The legality of it is of little consequence really.

Everyone should make informed choices in life. Many people though are not properly informed or have not thought through all the consequences of their actions. That’s true in all walks of life, and those people are then amazed when their actions, which seemed so trivial turn out to have a severe impact on them and others..

 

[Gubbins]

I'm very disappointed to read that Phill. I do understand that you are not alone in that view though as several contributors here previously have opined similar sentiments. Unfortunately, trivialising lawbreaking or supporting criminal activity says much about society today. Only when one becomes a direct victim of criminal behaviour is there any outrage displayed, it seems.

Tom

Look Tom,
I dont mean to be obtuse or cause offence, but sometimes it seems like some are trying to dictate to others what they should or shouldn't do, and you must agree that this thread has got way out of hand!
I see it like this.. There are many types of law breaking..
I could burgle someone's house, violently assault someone in the street, or worse..
Or, I could take my 17 year old grandson for a pint, Due to a medical condition I could get caught short and urinate in the street on the way home, or check my mobile phone whilst stationary in the car but with the engine running.
All these things are against the law and there are very very few people who do not transgress in some small way..
Well I, and many others, see the dongle thing in the second category, and no amount of scare mongering is likely to change that.
Personally I think the dongles are a nono.. For me purely because of the extra speed.

 

[Plasmadaddy]

But if I were to buy a dongle it would be for one of 2 reasons. .
1) it would make the bike look prettier
2) it would make it go faster.

My bike doesn't look prettier in the slightest.
It also doesn't go faster, it just enables easier pedalling at a higher speed.

At the end of the day I can still outpedal the dongle if I wan't to!

 

[Artstu]

60k the norm downhill


thats off road

You need to visit as many trail centres as possible and ride a load of sportives, I'm sure you'd get loads of complementary comments about your bike.

 

[tillson]

I take the point completely about the legal status of ebikes. There is no doubt that since I purchased my bike back in 2008, I now see many more ebikes out and about, so the probability of a serious accident involving one must have increased. And, if there are more ebikes, there must be more ilegal ones on the roads and trails too, so the probability of a serious accident involving an ilegal bike must also be increasing. I accept that the probability is currently low, but it is increasing.

I suspect that nothing will be done and everything will stay under the radar with numbers of both legal and ilegal bikes steadily increasing. Everything will change when mummy's little snowflake gets trashed, either by or whilst riding an ilegal bike. If he or she is riding one when the worst happens, it won't be theirs or the parents fault for buying one. In Britain today, nobody except the authorities can be blamed. The authorities will be blamed for not preventing mummy and daddy from buying the ilegal bike.

Next, tea-light sales will go through the roof as candle lit vigils are held at trail centres around the country. Mumsnet will light up as its members spew their synthetic moral outrage across its forum pages. End result? The authorities will react with blanket legislation for all ebikes and huge restrictions will follow at leisure sites such as trail centres.

 

[oldtom]

Next, tea-light sales will go through the roof as candle lit vigils are held at trail centres around the country. Mumsnet

Even as an unfinished piece of work, that's very good with a nice dose of wit!

Tom