EBMA files an anti dumping complaint on chinese e-bikes.

[Wisper Bikes]

I am pretty certain the commission will find for the big brands whatever evidence is given. We are certainly making plans.

I heard today "It’s a bit like a village cricket match with the umpires provided by the home side!" Very astute!

 

[shemozzle999]

I am pretty certain the commission will find for the big brands whatever evidence is given. We are certainly making plans.

I heard today "It’s a bit like a village cricket match with the umpires provided by the home side!" Very astute!

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171110IPR87817/parliament-passes-new-anti-dumping-rules-to-protect-eu-jobs-and-industry

 

[flecc]

Do Chinese bikes with non-chinese motors exist?

Yes, but Japanese rather than German motors,

Wisper bikes have mostly been made in China and some models have had Japanese Dapu hub motors fitted.

And Giant e-bikes made in that other China, Taiwan, have used both Panasonic crank drive units and Sanyo hub motors, both Japanese.

And of course some German e-bikes have used motors from Japan, Switzerland and I believe Austria.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I have heard differently Col, Bafang are convinced Bosch are a part of the problem Bafang are leading the defence of what is obviously an unjust and spurious claim.

I'm not sure Bosch were even at the meeting of the EMBA, bearing in mind they aren't a bike brand. Its also bigger than just Bosch, its multiple motors and bigger than that its the bike brands.

I've been saying for years, that eBike industry in the UK is going to get shaken up as soon as the big players in the Industry realise there is a market.

Its starting to happen and they will push out the small players just like they have done in normal bikes over the past 10 year.

If this current thing doesn't work, they'll do something else.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Do Chinese bikes with non-chinese motors exist?

Sorry I missed this part of the question.
I don't know the details of the supply chains of a lot of other brands.
But at a guess.

The Halfords brand Carrera is I'm sure made by Merida, who have 5 factories, 3 of which are in China. Carrera have a Bosch equipped bike now.

So there is a good chance this is a Chinese made bike, with a EU made motor.

However there is a chance Halfords are getting these bikes made at the Merida factory in Germany.

I'm sure there will be others.

We work with a EU Manufacturer called Ursus they make lots of things and ship a lot to the far east. However they are finding that more and more bike brands are moving to EU suppliers because the price isn't that much more, and the lead times and order quantities are so much lower.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Col, Electric Bicycles are and always have been a special case. Everything seems to be working well at the moment, the only reason to make a change as far as I can see is to feather the nests of the few European monster manufacturers.

Ebikes are simply not being dumped in Europe and Chinese manufacturers do not get huge subsidies, as everyone is aware this is simply about protectionism, nothing else.

In the 20 years ADT have been on Chinese non-ebikes, production has simply been moved to other Asian countries. Cambodia, The Philippines, Bangladesh, Tunisia*, and Thailand between them supply about 70% of the-non electric cycles coming into the the UK. The only reason that China has been penalised both in the past and now is that they are real threat especially in terms of product design and development.

*One has to wonder how many bikes are actually made in Tunisia, and these are not simply rebadged bakes from the far east.

If we want something real to worry about in the bicycle industry, consider this. A reported 50% of bicycle retailers have or are just about to close down in Shanghai area and Giant have cut production. Indeed Giant are now making the product that has shattered the industry in China. I believe this new threat will more than decimate bike shops throughout Europe too. Does anyone know what it is?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I'm not sure Bosch were even at the meeting of the EMBA, bearing in mind they aren't a bike brand. Its also bigger than just Bosch, its multiple motors and bigger than that its the bike brands.

I've been saying for years, that eBike industry in the UK is going to get shaken up as soon as the big players in the Industry realise there is a market.

Its starting to happen and they will push out the small players just like they have done in normal bikes over the past 10 year.

If this current thing doesn't work, they'll do something else.

You are probably correct, the big players will try anything and everything to make more cash, fair means or foul!

 

[Wisper Bikes]

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20171110IPR87817/parliament-passes-new-anti-dumping-rules-to-protect-eu-jobs-and-industry

Why call it anti dumping? Why not call it as it is "protectionism"?

If we follow this to it's conclusion, lets all get rid of our cameras, drones, phones, computers, TV's etc all made in Asia. Lets put a fence up around the UK and not allow any products that are not made here into our little island. We can make all that stuff here and make loads of new jobs!

Or have we already sort of done that?

 

[anotherkiwi]

Do you think they are going after Decathlon and the like in this thing? When I go to S.Sebastian which is a cycling city 8 out of 10 bikes (subjective estimate) is a B'Twin and they seem to be moving a few e-bikes now.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Hi Col, Electric Bicycles are and always have been a special case.

Why? They are just bicycles aren't they? We can't argue they are bicycles on one hand and then say they are special on the other can we?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Why? They are just bicycles aren't they? We can't argue they are bicycles on one hand and then say they are special on the other can we?

No.

You see Col an electric bicycle has a battery and a motor that assists the rider and cannot be ridden by anyone under the age of 14. They are actually a motor vehicle but have a special dispensation that enables riders under very strict conditions to be able to use them as if they were a bicycle.

A bicycle does not have a motor and any one can ride them regardless of age etc, etc.

I hope that helps.

All the best, David

 

[anotherkiwi]

No.

You see Col an electric bicycle has a battery and a motor that assists the rider and cannot be ridden by anyone under the age of 14. They are actually a motor vehicle but have a special dispensation that enables riders under very strict conditions to be able to use them as if they were a bicycle.

A bicycle does not have a motor and any one can ride them regardless of age etc, etc.

I hope that helps.

All the best, David

Ah but you aren't in the EU where those conditions are not imposed on the under 14 so they are "just bicycles"...

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Ah but you aren't in the EU where those conditions are not imposed on the under 14 so they are "just bicycles"...

Got it!

 

[flecc]

Got it!

Hope it's not catching.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

China is the new Switzerland...

http://www.bike-eu.com/laws-regulations/nieuws/2017/11/will-eu-impose-triple-digit-anti-dumping-duty-chinese-e-bikes-10132040

 

[Wisper Bikes]

How is it we can buy ebikes to the same specs cheaper in Romania than I can in China? This has been the experience for all my colleagues, in all cases we are finding prices in Europe the same or less than in China. We are set to move by early next year in response to this latest round of protectionism. Quite honestly dealing with and travelling to Romania, Spain or Portugal rather than China is far more appealing. It just feels like a gross injustice is taking place.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It does seem as Col has mentioned that this is simply the big manufacturers flexing their muscles, finding a way to drive out the competition, especially those who have battled for years to create the market the big producers are now enjoying.

Maybe the volume end of the market is going to get tougher as the big boys squabble for their piece of the action. Maybe we smaller, more ethical producers should follow the lead of Orange, Brompton, Pashley etc, become very much more niche? What ever happens it will be very interesting.

I for one will not miss 30 odd hour round trips 5 or 6 times a year. Portugal in particular sounds wonderful!

 

[Woosh]

Maybe we smaller, more ethical producers should follow the lead of Orange, Brompton, Pashley etc, become very much more niche? What ever happens it will be very interesting.

it seems to me that'll be the only way.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I would understand the dumping claims if the European manufacturers made entry level bikes that are in competition with cheap Chinese bikes. They don't.

It is they who are in the niche market making small quantities of over priced bikes when the world needs (urgently we are led to believe) large volumes of reasonably priced, clean, sustainable transportation. I am leaving e-MTBs out the equation, they are for the well off and leisure use.

Giant, from that other China, are about as close as it gets and even they need to knock about 500€ off their prices to compete with the real competition: the cheap 4 stroke moped.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Today is the Day!