EBMA files an anti dumping complaint on chinese e-bikes.

[Wisper Bikes]

Of course ebikes should be a tariff-free green product. The Chinese have got it it bang on.

The truth is that we can build ebikes in Eastern European states cheaper than from China, they are not as good though. This is farce.

 

[Dewey]

Speaking of state funding an article in the Guardian mentions a possibility for discussing subsidizing U.K. ebike sales, maybe pitched as helping to encourage active commuting?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/20/uk-may-consider-electric-vehicle-subsidy-to-increase-cycling?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

 

[Wisper Bikes]

LATEST

Secretary general of the European Bicycle Manufacturers Association Moreno Fioravanti has reacted positively to the EU’s official investigation into dumped e-bike imports from China.

“We strongly welcome the new European Commission investigation into the dumping of Chinese e-bikes, which are flooding the EU at an alarming rate and artificially low prices. EBMA has also asked the European Commission for the immediate registration of Chinese e-bike imports, which will allow EU anti-dumping duties to be imposed retroactively, and will shortly file an anti-subsidy complaint,” commented Fioravanti.

The secretary general called on the EU for immediate action to stem the flow of dumped e-bikes from China stating: “EBMA and the EU manufacturers of bicycles, pedal assist e-bikes, and components are firm believers in free trade, but trade must also be fair. Injuring domestic producers through imports which are dumped and heavily government-subsidised is against the WTO rules. We have asked the Commission to order the registration of Chinese e-bikes as soon as possible so that the blatant disregard of trade rules by Chinese e-bike manufacturers can be stopped quickly.”

He continued, “We are confident that the Commission will make a thorough analysis and confirm the massive scale of dumping from China which is injuring EU producers and destroying sustainable manufacturing jobs, Innovation, growth and investment in Europe.”

“Our European bicycle, e-bike and components industry is one of the largest generators of green jobs in the EU, and the dumped Chinese e-bikes put at serious risk the employment of over 90.000 EU workers and 800 SMEs. We must do whatever it takes to legitimately defend our workers and our manufacturing SMEs, including our European know-how, new products and investments. It is our people and our investment in new technologies which make the European bicycle, e-bike and components industry one of the most innovative industries in the world,” pointed out Fioravanti.

“Chinese e-bike exporters, on the other hand, benefit from massive subsidies from government bodies at every level in China. Those subsidies have encouraged enormous e-bike manufacturing overcapacities, which are then dumped in the EU.”

Imports into the EU from China will have jumped from nearly zero in 2010 to more than 800,000 e-bikes in 2017. 2016 e-bike imports from China, over 430,000 units, represented 70 per cent of all e-bikes imported from outside Europe and a massive 40 per cent volume growth compared to the previous year.

“If this dumping is not stopped, China will quickly grab an e-bike monopoly in Europe. Dumped Chinese e-bikes are causing injury to European industry, which is harming the European economy and consumers worldwide. Indeed, local EU manufacturing by SMEs is the only sustainable future for the EU, both to create new green jobs and to really cut carbon and other dangerous emissions,” concluded Fioravanti.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

eBikes in Europe can already be built for less than in China.

I believe this is simply a case blatant protectionism, by the Goliath bike builders of Europe, nothing more nothing less.

European manufacturers a few years ago eventually caught on to the fact that ebikes were a pretty good idea. The eBike market had been developed in Asia for years before the big manufacturers caught on, now they have, they want it all to themselves.

We experienced building bikes near Leipzig for nearly two years, and although cheaper, they were simply not up to the Chinese standard. We now have our ebikes manufactured in China one more and although more expensive we get a better product. It would be a shame to be forced to move back to Europe against our will.

Interestingly we have already been quoted prices that are less than we are currently paying. These prices are being offered by the Chinese eBike builders busy buying factories in Portugal, Italy, Slovenia and across the East of Europe... just in case. The only upside I can see will be not having to travel for the best part of 30 hours for production meetings! Portugal, Italy and Slovenia sound far more relaxing and attractive.

Do EBMA simply want to drive up prices in order to swell their profit margins? If so they may have have a bit of a shock coming. Is all that will happen is the Eastern European countries will take up the slack, build better eBikes and give the big three or four who are driving this nonsense an even bigger problem?

Has anyone thought why anti-dumping hasn't been forced on mobile phones and tech made in China? I-phones, Apple computers and battery packs are made under the same conditions. Apple Inc are a massively powerful business and have a huge lobbying budget (much like the European bike building "cartel"), so they nearly always get their own way. Apple have realised that they can build a better product in Asia and want to stay there.

I wonder, will these people try to lock out Taiwan too? Many of them have bikes or at least frames made there, (as do we) so I doubt it.

I have no doubt that we will all have our choices taken away and will be bullied into building bikes in Europe by these massively powerful lobbyists. It would be good though if they could be more open and honest about their motivation.

I wonder, is the threat to the bike industry in Europe by these monster European bike building businesses greater than the threat from Asia?

Please excuse my ramblings!!

 

[the_killjoy]

Could someone just explain simply to me how the dumping is defined?

I assume it is more than just low labour rates as that could apply to many countries outside the EU.

Are individual companies subsidised by the Chinese government and if so which ones and how? Is it via tax breaks and if so do firms like Wisper benefit from them or are they, as foreign companies, discriminated against?.

 

[Kudoscycles]

David(Amps),I received formal notice of the e-bike anti-dumping duty from my shippers.
Some points it raises....
1.It only specifies China,so it would be possible to build in other Asian countries,although the vanilla bike anti-dumping did get extended to other countries.
2. It doesn't mention the duty value,but I am sure it will be the same as vanilla bikes at 48%.
3. I read somewhere that the anti-dumping duty on vanilla bikes was due to be cancelled soon,would seem strange to cancel it on non powered bikes and put it on e-bikes.
4. Very concerning it says that anti-dumping duty can be applied retrospectively to imports from the start of the registration period...it is vague as to what is the start date of the registration period.
As with all government notices it is ambiguous and vague.....it also says that the decision to impose can be made 60 days after the start of the formal investigation but is usually imposed for the last 6 months of the investigation....the maximum time of the investigation is 15 months but it can be much shorter...to ensure we pay it a security of the value of the duty is taken by the revenue during the period of the investigation.
5. Assuming we Brexit on March 2019 but have this 2 year transition,I suspect (but honestly dont know)that the EU will insist on these duties being collected for the 2 years and we will give them the money...after Brexit who knows,but its a long time to wait.
6. We need to be careful about moving production to EE countries,if we crash out our government may continue the tariff between EU to UK as a reprisal of the EU putting the same tariff on us,which they will do.
7. The WTO tariff China to UK would appear to be 25%,still pretty hefty,unless we negotiate a free trade deal with China,will that happen??
8. The safest option would probably build them in the UK,you have always wanted a bike in Union Jack colours ,but only for domestic sales (which are all mine,Kudos dont export).
In the short term those who want to buy an inexpensive e-bike should buy it from stock bikes already in the UK. I am not currently ordering any new bikes and have none on order,I have good stocks but when they are gone I will not reorder,the potential duty losses are too risky.
Shame,the latest e-bikes from China were such high quality and it was an inexpensive mode of transport for so many,but the greed of the big bike manufacturers via the EU will make all the bikes so much more expensive.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Could someone just explain simply to me how the dumping is defined?

I assume it is more than just low labour rates as that could apply to many countries outside the EU.

Are individual companies subsidised by the Chinese government and if so which ones and how? Is it via tax breaks and if so do firms like Wisper benefit from them or are they, as foreign companies, discriminated against?.

The definition of dumping is 'when a product is sold in an export country cheaper than it is sold in the market of origin' it is deemed to be dumped.
In this case the EBMA have lodged a complaint,they represent 25% of the EU e-bike industry.
It is blatent protectionism,the complainants have provided evidence that the volume and prices have injured EU producers.
It is not just about low wages,these chinese bike assemblers are very efficient and work on very low margins.
Companies like Wisper and Kudos do buy at competitive prices but not very low,the EU producers could assemble at near these prices but they work on much higher margins,this notice has been instigated to protect those margins.
It is possible to buy an e-bike in a supermarket in China for 200 dollars,so there is no way that the product is being dumped but the investigators will ignore that,unfortunately this is a done deal,they will implement it because it is in the interests of the EU and its producers to do so.
As I have often said,Brexit could cause real problems for the UK,this notice just shows how protectionist is the EU,I am sure that they will put these anti-dumping duties on the UK,if we choose to cancel them,post Brexit....dont forget that will hurt not only chinese imports but also all bikes assembled in the UK.
However,if we do cancel them,we will be the cheapest bikes in Europe,Dover-Calais and the Irish border could become the smuggling capitals of the world.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Speaking of state funding an article in the Guardian mentions a possibility for discussing subsidizing U.K. ebike sales, maybe pitched as helping to encourage active commuting?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/20/uk-may-consider-electric-vehicle-subsidy-to-increase-cycling?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Bit of a joke really...we are trying to encourage e-bike use with a grant and the EU are slapping an anti-dumping duty,which will discourage their use.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

.it is vague as to what is the start date of the registration period.

following a complaint to the Commission, the Commision can decide to start a registration period.
Its purpose is to warn importers that they may have to pay retroactively ADD.
This threat is usually determined when a provisional ADD is imposed.
So:
1. EBMA makes a complaint, in which they will also ask the Commision to start registering importation of e-bikes.
2. The Commission thinks about that for a few weeks then may say, OK, it looks pretty plausible, let's start register e-bike imports
3. We, importers of Chinese bikes, on hearing the news, will have to cancel all pending orders and switch to import from Poland or start building our own.
4. 6 months later, nothing comes of it, things get back to where they were.
I don't know on what basis that EBMA make their complaint about, If you look into the street price of a Cube HPA 400, you can't say that Chinese bikes are 'dumped' on the EU market.

 

[Kudoscycles]

following a complaint to the Commission, the Commision can decide to start a registration period.
Its purpose is to warn importers that they may have to pay retroactively ADD.
This threat is usually determined when a provisional ADD is imposed.
So:
1. EBMA makes a complaint, in which they will also ask the Commision to start registering importation of e-bikes.
2. The Commission thinks about that for a few weeks then may say, OK, it looks pretty plausible, let's start register e-bike imports
3. We, importers of Chinese bikes, on hearing the news, will have to cancel all pending orders and switch to import from Poland or start building our own.
4. 6 months later, nothing comes of it, things get back to where they were.
I don't know on what basis that EBMA make their complaint about, If you look into the street price of a Cube HPA 400, you can't say that Chinese bikes are 'dumped' on the EU market.

You are looking at matters from a 'fair' viewpoint,but the EU is only interested in protecting the EBMA members,the fairness of whether the anti-dumping duty is justified is irrelevant. I was involved in the anti-dumping duty complained by BBS wheels,we put up an honest fight against the dumping duty,my wheels are not sold in China so no comparison was possible and I made no 'injury' to BBS wheels,but they still put the duty on alloy wheels....22%...it added £5.00 per wheel which the UK consumer effectively paid for.
Woosh...try asking for the form that allows you to submit evidence against this notice,I guarantee that you will give up,it is purposely mind boggling complex.
This is a done deal,what would concern me is when the duty takes effect,it is very vague and retrospective,it could be as early as March,2018...we know how long e-bikes take from China,any delays and your next shipment could be duty attached. I have stopped ordering until we have definite sight of the outcome,even moving to another EU supplier could end up with May putting tariffs on EU>UK supply.
The chinese>UK e-bike business is on hold until the outcome is known...you know how expensive current vat+duty on imports is to cash flow,imagine another possible 48%,its just not a viable business for cash flow reasons alone....Goliath has won,e-bikes will now only be sold by the big three e-bike producers.
If our government has a free trade deal with China,without the EU attaching anti-dumping duties as a condition of our deal with the EU,then the e-bike business could become viable again for the smaller importer,but in the meantime find something else to trade,we had it good for a while,time to move on.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

Maybe this really is a problem in some countries in the EU? Just wondering out loud...

 

[Woosh]

You are looking at matters from a 'fair' viewpoint,but the EU is only interested in protecting the EBMA members,the fairness of whether the anti-dumping duty is justified is irrelevant. I was involved in the anti-dumping duty complained by BBS wheels,we put up an honest fight against the dumping duty,my wheels are not sold in China so no comparison was possible and I made no 'injury' to BBS wheels,but they still put the duty on alloy wheels....22%...it added £5.00 per wheel which the UK consumer effectively paid for.
Woosh...try asking for the form that allows you to submit evidence against this notice,I guarantee that you will give up,it is purposely mind boggling complex.
This is a done deal,what would concern me is when the duty takes effect,it is very vague and retrospective,it could be as early as March,2018...we know how long e-bikes take from China,any delays and your next shipment could be duty attached. I have stopped ordering until we have definite sight of the outcome,even moving to another EU supplier could end up with May putting tariffs on EU>UK supply.
The chinese>UK e-bike business is on hold until the outcome is known...you know how expensive current vat+duty on imports is to cash flow,imagine another possible 48%,its just not a viable business for cash flow reasons alone....Goliath has won,e-bikes will now only be sold by the big three e-bike producers.
If our government has a free trade deal with China,without the EU attaching anti-dumping duties as a condition of our deal with the EU,then the e-bike business could become viable again for the smaller importer,but in the meantime find something else to trade,we had it good for a while,time to move on.
KudosDave

I don't think this action of the EBMA will succeed. But if it does, I will simply ask my suppliers to supply in kits, not assembled and invoice the kits as parts.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

A couple of points,

July 2018 seems to be the earliest date that registration could start and retrospective duty could come into force.

It seems that the tariff could not only be charged on fully built bikes but also on ebike components from China, parts mentioned already include batteries, frames, motors.

Woosh, why do you think the EBMA will fail? I tend to take Dave's view point on this, it's a forgone conclusion.

I have today had an offer from Indonesia, via my Chinese partners. They will be ready for business this year.

Slovenia, Spain and especially Portugal have already been discussed by Chinese companies buying European builders. But as Dave says buying from Europe will be just as unsettled for the next couple of years.

As Brexit kicks in we will no longer be able to afford to buy from mainland Europe. Our currency will not stand it, whether they use punitive trade barriers or not.

Maybe this is the time to get together and start building here?

 

[Woosh]

Woosh, why do you think the EBMA will fail? I tend to take Dave's view point on this, it's a forgone conclusion.

I have reviewed a dozen recent ADD cases, you can google these up if you like, China is not always the target. It seems to me that the Commision's anti-dumping decisions are fair and they follow the guidelines:

The investigation must show that:

1. there is dumping by the exporting producers in the country/countries concerned
2. material injury has been suffered by the Community industry concerned
3. there is a causal link between the dumping and injury found
4. the imposition of measures is not against the Community interest.

Point 1 is obvious in the case of steel and steel products, not so obvious in the case of e-bikes, there is no over production of e-bikes. If anything, the Chinese factories are quoting 90 to 120 days lead time while they were 60-90 days last year.
Point 2, 3 and 4 are also not obvious, judging by the increases in production volume of EU companies like Bull, Derby, Cube etc and the community has benefited in product diversification.
Complaints like this one by EBMA are common, and will not always succeed.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

I have reviewed a dozen recent ADD cases, you can google these up if you like, China is not always the target. It seems to me that the Commision's anti-dumping decisions are fair and they follow the guidelines:

The investigation must show that:

1. there is dumping by the exporting producers in the country/countries concerned
2. material injury has been suffered by the Community industry concerned
3. there is a causal link between the dumping and injury found
4. the imposition of measures is not against the Community interest.

Point 1 is obvious in the case of steel and steel products, not so obvious in the case of e-bikes, there is no over production of e-bikes. If anything, the Chinese factories are quoting 90 to 120 days lead time while they were 60-90 days last year.
Point 2, 3 and 4 are also not obvious, judging by the increases in production volume of EU companies like Bull, Derby, Cube etc and the community has benefited in product diversification.
Complaints like this one by EBMA are common, and will not always succeed.

I agree, it makes absolutely no sense, however the EBMA do have a lot of clout. Maybe I am being too pessimistic!

 

[Woosh]

however the EBMA do have a lot of clout. Maybe I am being too pessimistic!

I don't think the Commision is that corrupt.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I don't think this action of the EBMA will succeed. But if it does, I will simply ask my suppliers to supply in kits, not assembled and invoice the kits as parts.

If you don't think that the complaint will be upheld and are confident of that,then you are ok to continue ordering e-bikes,even though the notice has stated that the duties will be retrospectively applied....you do realise that you could have sold bikes at prices that you assume will be 6% duty paid and retrospectively have to pay maybe 48% more duty on those bikes.
I had exactly that situation,the 'nice man' from HMRC was kind to me and didn't put interest on the duty but it was a lot of money,not nice when you had already sold the product,fortunately the duty was only 22% and margins were high.
The rules of origin may apply,I think 40% must be the minimum local input to avoid the duty,you will have to be careful that your local element exceeds that percentages.
But good luck would be good to see UK e-bikes.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I have reviewed a dozen recent ADD cases, you can google these up if you like, China is not always the target. It seems to me that the Commision's anti-dumping decisions are fair and they follow the guidelines:

The investigation must show that:

1. there is dumping by the exporting producers in the country/countries concerned
2. material injury has been suffered by the Community industry concerned
3. there is a causal link between the dumping and injury found
4. the imposition of measures is not against the Community interest.

Point 1 is obvious in the case of steel and steel products, not so obvious in the case of e-bikes, there is no over production of e-bikes. If anything, the Chinese factories are quoting 90 to 120 days lead time while they were 60-90 days last year.
Point 2, 3 and 4 are also not obvious, judging by the increases in production volume of EU companies like Bull, Derby, Cube etc and the community has benefited in product diversification.
Complaints like this one by EBMA are common, and will not always succeed.

It would be very easy for EU producers to put evidence to the commission that all 4 points apply.
Looking at the EU position if these big EU employers are suffering they would be in a difficult position if redundancies occurred due to the Chinese imports,whereas they collect lots of money from the tariffs if we continue to import,it is win-win from their viewpoint,unless the Chinese retaliate by putting heavy tariffs on EU product sold in China.
Don't forget the Germans wanted 300% tariff put on Chinese steel into the EU,it was us Brits who voted against,when they rid of us I am sure they will immediately put anti dumping tariffs on Chinese Steel.
Trump is putting up trade barriers or at least breaking down free trade deals,the BRICS are joining their own trade arrangements,the EU is strengthening its club and we chose at this difficult time to go it alone??
KudosDave

 

[Benjahmin]

I don't think the Commision is that corrupt.

What, the organisation whose members are appointed by their mates and hasn't allowed it's budget to be audited - EVER?

 

[Kudoscycles]

I don't think the Commision is that corrupt.

It must be me getting old and cynical,it's good you see the best in everybody....I only say that would you be allowed to operate your business for 17 years without displaying accounts??
KudosDave