Ebike to keep up with fast group

[John5001]

Hope someone is able to offer advice regarding which ebike would be suitable for keeping up with a fast cycling group. Addition to this, good hill climbing ability.
I have at present two ebikes, a Whoosh Sirocco, and a Reise &Muller, both good at hills but ageing and heavy bikes.
Budget up to 2k which is considerably more than I wanted to spend, but consider with the right bike I would use everyday being retired.
Build quality is a must. Was looking at Kaulkhoff but worried after reading some of the experiences here.

 

[Alan Quay]

Nothing legal.

I would guess you need to average around 20mph, so you'll be needing 25mph top speed.

S-peddlec, dongled or DIY are your options.

 

[Artstu]

Nothing legal.

I would guess you need to average around 20mph, so you'll be needing 25mph top speed.

S-peddlec, dongled or DIY are your options.

even then they'll leave you trailing on the downhill bits.

 

[trex]

The Karoo is lighter than your old Sirocco and nice to pedal without power:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?karoo

@AQ: I reckon that most people who like to ride fast simply derestrict their bike via LCD maximum speed setting.

 

[Electric Transport Shop]

Hi John, You might be better off converting a bike that's built for the type of riding you want to do. The sunstar ibike so3+ is a lightweight Japanese torque sensing crank drive system for converting nice bikes.

 

[georgehenry]

If it is road riding, I test road a Kalkhoff Endeavour Impulse S10 and was very impressed. Very fast, good range, and high quality. A bit more money than your budget though.

The BBS01 Cube SL Road Pro conversion built by mfj197 and in the bike reviews section of this web site could be a basis for you to do your own conversion.

I have also tried Bosch and Yamaha bikes with dongles and either could average 20mph easily. So if you bought an entry level Yamaha and added a dongle you would be on budget on board a quality purpose built bike and nearly or as fast as the Kalkhoff but with not quite so much range though still able to do 25/30 miles and maybe a bit more if you use the higher assist levels only when you need them.

The Oxygen Mountain bike can be de-restricted at the controller as can many with similar controllers and anecdotally is a very fast hub powered bike that climbs like a goat and is £500 under budget. I would like to have a go on one.

Again anecdotally the Cytronex bikes from Winchester can be very fast and light though with reduced range so you might need a second battery.

However as Alan said you cannot go that fast and stay legal.

 

[Nealh]

May be a Kalkhoff s -ped could possibly be able to, but a fast cycling group will be very fit and I doubt a s -ped would keep up unless you are very fit as well and then battery range comes into play after 30 - 35 miles you may not have much left.
A couple of times when I have been out I have tonking nicely along at 18/19 mph a head of a group only to see them pass and in to the distance.

 

[Kudoscycles]

John....you don't say whether you want a mountain style bike or commuter style bike. How tall are you?
You don't need to spend £2k to get the maximum speed with power that is needed. The fast group may pull away on the flat or downhill but you should keep with them on the hills.
Any BPM hub drive with a King Meter,will private land use only-pull strongly up to 21 mph....the Kudos Typhoon/Tornado or Oxygen bikes are very similar and will do that. Someone on this forum has just bought a Typhoon so can maybe advise you,Jimod has had one for several years.
These bikes weigh low 20 kg,to get below that you will have to sacrifice range.
KudosDave

 

[John5001]

Thanks for the replies, I am currently cycling with a friendly group in Stroud, where the pace suits my fitness.

However, wanting to explore more of the beautiful countryside here, another group that exists would be great for this.
I have been warned they are quicker, and not so friendly at waiting for stragglers lol
A mountain bike if chosen, would need to have mudguards as there would be people behind me, and I am 5ft 10ins.
The range can be up to 40 miles, currently average 20 or so which is about the limit on the bike I use now.

 

[Artstu]

John....you don't say whether you want a mountain style bike or commuter style bike.

I'd have offered a racing bike given the requirements he wants.

 

[Plasmadaddy]

Haibike have a couple of Yamaha motored Sduro bikes in your price range.
They're mountain bikes. I have the Hard9 and put some slicker tires on as I ride on the road as well.
Fitted some Crud Catchers to keep the mud and rain off!

 

[John5001]

In Stroud, there is an Ebike shop which specialise in Haibike and A to B bikes.
Had a quick chat regarding derestricting, he advised if I fitted a dongle it would void any warrantee and possibly damage the battery..(Maybe because he doesn't supply these) but it was an option under consideration.

 

[Plasmadaddy]

In Stroud, there is an Ebike shop which specialise in Haibike and A to B bikes.
Had a quick chat regarding derestricting, he advised if I fitted a dongle it would void any warrantee and possibly damage the battery..(Maybe because he doesn't supply these) but it was an option under consideration.

Ah, to dongle or not to dongle?
That's an argument for another time!

There are a number of ways to do this without voiding your warranty and it certainly won't damage a battery!

Do a search, there's untold numbers of threads on dongles.....

 

[Alan Quay]

The Karoo is lighter than your old Sirocco and nice to pedal without power:

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?karoo

@AQ: I reckon that most people who like to ride fast simply derestrict their bike via LCD maximum speed setting.

How much current is this thing pulling when de-restricted? It would need to be up toward 30 amps for the OP to have any chance of keeping up.

 

[trex]

I was thinking that he could do with something a little faster than his old Sirocco which is built with Bafang SWXH motor, a Lishui 14A controller and a 10AH rear rack battery. He also wants foremost reliability. The Karoo can give him that. if the OP needs high speed, high power assist (30A), then he'll have to build a kit with the BBS02 48V 25A 750W. None of the legal bike can beat that. It's still well within his budget even with a top end donor bike.

 

[Artstu]

I don't agree at all with the last two posts, you don't need that much power to keep up, crank drive (for optimum motor speed) and no limiter and just under half Bosch classic hub gear power is more than enough in a good rolling bike. 600 wh may be required though for an average ish club ride.

 

[flecc]

I don't agree at all with the last two posts, you don't need that much power to keep up, crank drive (for optimum motor speed) and no limiter and just under half Bosch classic hub gear power is more than enough in a good rolling bike. 600 wh may be required though for an average ish club ride.

I agree with you overall for keeping up, but the OP said he wanted good hill climbing, and higher power is needed for that. I take it from him saying this that he sees his own rider power as below par for keeping up on hills on a normal bike.
.

 

[Artstu]

but the OP said he wanted good hill climbing, and higher power is needed for that. I take it from him saying this that he sees his own rider power as below par for keeping up on hills on a normal bike.
.

My own power is below par due to illness, however the sort of power I related to allows me to reasonably comfortably keep up with serious young club riders, which I have absolutely no chance of doing on an ordinary bike.

I will concede that none of us know just how fit the OP is.

ETA I forgot to say a bike with just the exact power I describe doesn't really exist, they all come with two more higher power settings. Using more power of course means higher battery consumption, so depending on the ride distance two batteries will be a requirement, or a battery with at least 600 wh, and maybe a bit more.

 

[RobF]

Have you established if you will be welcome to join the fast group?

Roadies, particularly quick ones, are notorious for their hostility to ebikers.

They can also be very cliquey and unwelcoming to any new rider, whatever bike he has.

 

[John5001]

Have you established if you will be welcome to join the fast group?

Roadies, particularly quick ones, are notorious for their hostility to ebikers.



I know a couple of the guys in the group. But yes I am aware, there can be some challenges, thus my requirement for an appropriate bike is important.
Problem as I see it, many retailers make claims about fast bikes and range, but won't find out until I partake in an actual ride.