Ebike to keep up with fast group

[EddiePJ]

r pedelec 850w 50mph

Yet another example of a completely stupid place to put a battery.

If water doesn't get it, then debris and stones will. I really wonder how some of these bikes make it past the design stage.

 

[John5001]

Yet another example of a completely stupid place to put a battery.

If water doesn't get it, then debris and stones will. I really wonder how some of these bikes make it past the design stage.

Assume the people who buy these are dedicated racers and would only use on a track and on an infrequent basis.
Your average Pedelec user unlikely to spend that kind of dosh on a bike.

 

[trex]

Simply because I do not know too much about Giant. They are a Taiwanese company, that have regenerated in recent years after a somewhat lean spell.

My preference, would to buy a ready off the shelf bike rather than upgrading a bike that may, or may not see a significant improvement.
Tried and tested is always best.

I take your point about tried and tested is always best. However, reputations come and go too, over time. I should have also twigged on earlier that you were not too concerned with legal or illegal bikes, I barked up the wrong tree, sorry. Regarding Giant, I don't know if they have had lean years, but as they grow from nothing in 1972 to being the largest bike manufacturers in the world ($2 billion annual sales in 80 countries), they can't afford to get much wrong with their bikes. Good luck with your choice.

 

[John5001]

I take your point about tried and tested is always best. However, reputations come and go too, over time. I should have also twigged on earlier that you were not too concerned with legal or illegal bikes, I barked up the wrong tree, sorry. Regarding Giant, I don't know if they have had lean years, but as they grow from nothing in 1972 to being the largest bike manufacturers in the world ($2 billion annual sales in 80 countries), they can't afford to get much wrong with their bikes. Good luck with your choice.

You twigged wrong and if you read my posts you can see I was looking at 250W motor in preference to the 350.

As for Giant, well Microsoft are the biggest software company. Many versions of windows are now damaged brands. Biggest is never always best.
Thanks for your input though and appreciate we all have our own perceptions of what is a good buy.
My preference for German made bikes, is durability and this means build quality.

 

[soundwave]

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/whats-the-difference-between-the-250w-350w-bosch-ebike-motors-explained/
there is this but a lot of money

http://www.haibike.de/produkte_detail_en,72219,25562,detail.html

 

[John5001]

https://www.e-bikeshop.co.uk/blog/post/whats-the-difference-between-the-250w-350w-bosch-ebike-motors-explained/
there is this but a lot of money

http://www.haibike.de/produkte_detail_en,72219,25562,detail.html

Looks the business but yes a lot of money. Another issue is that in a group, mudguards are required.
Noticed once on group ride, in wet conditions one person didn't have mudguards fitted, and consequently wasn't very popular.
Although could be fitted retrospectively.

 

[trex]

...
Budget up to 2k which is considerably more than I wanted to spend
...

that was the starting point that muddled my thinking because I think there is very little difference in quality between £1,000 self build bike and £2,000 shop bought bike.

 

[soundwave]

have a look here and see if any is in budget.

http://www.ebike-base.com/en/

if not then prob best get a bike you like and get a mid drive kit for it and convert it ur self.

be cheaper as well

 

[John5001]

have a look here and see if any is in budget.

http://www.ebike-base.com/en/

if not then prob best get a bike you like and get a mid drive kit for it and convert it ur self.

be cheaper as well

Those bikes do look good. I will have a good look over the next couple of weeks.

 

[soundwave]

few more here but double the budget

http://www.biketronic.at/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=18&Itemid=195

star fighter is the lightest i have seen at 11.5kg

 

[EddiePJ]

Another unfamiliar brand. http://www.fulgurcycles.it/

This one comes in at 15.8kg http://media.wix.com/ugd/c470d6_6ea10de249034797894f6a7ab1f8b956.pdf

 

[John5001]

Another unfamiliar brand. http://www.fulgurcycles.it/

This one comes in at 15.8kg http://media.wix.com/ugd/c470d6_6ea10de249034797894f6a7ab1f8b956.pdf

My Italian isn't that good but certainly looks nice. My reservation would be durability. Italians make great looking cars,motorbikes, clothes and haircuts.
But the German made bikes are very good build quality.

 

[RobF]

If it has to be ready made and German, then your only realistic option anywhere near your budget is a Bosch bike from a German brand.

But you will have to dongle it.

This Cube has the pokiest Bosch motor, mudguards, and the bigger 500wh battery.

With a dongle, you will have a fighting chance of keeping pace with the fast road group.

But for how long?

You want 40 miles which isn't going to happen from one battery at the speeds you require.

Thus you will need a spare battery, which is another £700.

You might also have to gear it up a bit, but a bigger front ring is relatively cheap.

http://www.mhw-bike.com/cube-cross-hybrid-race-allroad-500-black-n-green-2016-4701

 

[John5001]

If it has to be ready made and German, then your only realistic option anywhere near your budget is a Bosch bike from a German brand.

But you will have to dongle it.

This Cube has the pokiest Bosch motor, mudguards, and the bigger 500wh battery.

With a dongle, you will have a fighting chance of keeping pace with the fast road group.

But for how long?

You want 40 miles which isn't going to happen from one battery at the speeds you require.

Thus you will need a spare battery, which is another £700.

You might also have to gear it up a bit, but a bigger front ring is relatively cheap.

http://www.mhw-bike.com/cube-cross-hybrid-race-allroad-500-black-n-green-2016-4701

Thanks that bike certainly looks the business. Doesn't mention range or dongle though.
The only bike that would do the job as far as I can see, is the EVO2 by Kaulkhoff which is a shed load of money.
Forty miles is the norm for the group I wish to join, and they are quick apparently.

 

[RobF]

Thanks that bike certainly looks the business. Doesn't mention range or dongle though.
The only bike that would do the job as far as I can see, is the EVO2 by Kaulkhoff which is a shed load of money.
Forty miles is the norm for the group I wish to join, and they are quick apparently.

Cube don't do the dongle because it makes the bike illegal.

You buy the dongle from a (German) company called Badass and clip it on yourself.

Range is heavily dependent on hills, headwinds, amount of assistance selected and amount of rider input - that's the same for all ebikes.

Also, all ebikes use roughly the same amount of power in the same situation.

From experience, I can tell you a 500wh battery is unlikely to be enough for 40 miles.

But it could be if you are a strong rider and can go fast enough with the bike on lowest eco setting.

No way of knowing that for sure until you try it.

https://www.badassebikes.com/

 

[John5001]

Cube don't do the dongle because it makes the bike illegal.

You buy the dongle from a (German) company called Badass and clip it on yourself.

Range is heavily dependent on hills, headwinds, amount of assistance selected and amount of rider input - that's the same for all ebikes.

Also, all ebikes use roughly the same amount of power in the same situation.

From experience, I can tell you a 500wh battery is unlikely to be enough for 40 miles.

But it could be if you are a strong rider and can go fast enough with the bike on lowest eco setting.

No way of knowing that for sure until you try it.

https://www.badassebikes.com/

Thanks for the link. I guess its down to dynamics lightest bike fit rider. Will look at the Cube.

How does the Cube rate against Kaulkhoff do you think?

 

[RobF]

Thanks for the link. I guess its down to dynamics lightest bike fit rider. Will look at the Cube.

How does the Cube rate against Kaulkhoff do you think?

Both decent bicycles, although there have been quite a few problems reported with Kalkhoff batteries and electrics of late.

A mate has a new Evo, all good so far, and the motor is relatively quiet which may help you integrate with the roadies.

The 17ah battery stands a better chance of doing a fast 40 miles than the smaller capacity Bosch battery.

But you would still have to dongle a legal Evo, or buy an illegal Speed one.

And you would still have to shell out £3K or so.

 

[whibbles52]

I was in a similar situation riding with a younger group who would spin along at over 30km/h on the flat and I really struggled to keep up with them on my legal 36v BH Emotion Sport weighing under 20kg. I could override the limit by moving the sensor magnet on the rear wheel and get a few extra kms/h but the b******s would up the pace ! I did Geneva to Nice with a few of them (including the Alpe d'Huez) on the BH and did get my own back on the climbs. I found that riding on the BH got me fitter and I ended up buying a road bike to go on the weekly Sunday rides, most of which are on reasonably flat terrain. I was well accepted by the other riders as there was a 10-20 age difference but try not to smile too much when you climb on your bike.