DNP Epoch Freewheels..and gearing question

Curiously, this company seems to be the ONLY manufacturer of 11T-28T freewheels in the world but I'm seen some people on endless sphere saying they're rubbish quality.

I was wondering if anyone has heard of the company or has anything good/bad to say about them? The freewheels are made in China I think and the few sites that sell them (in the States) say they are nickel plated. They come in 11-28 to 11-34.

It's strange how you can't buy freewheels in UK from any of the big manufacturers for anything smaller than 13 or 14T. Maybe it's just because cassettes have taken over and less freewheel manufacturers or less demand for them, as I noticed there's plenty of 11T cassettes from the likes of Shimano etc?

If you wanted to substitute 11T for 13T how would you determine what chainwheel to use, if you already have 54T with 11T cassette, if you wanted the same gearing on a freewheel of 13T or 14T?

Divide the Chain wheel by the cog = x

Times x by the 13t to see what the equivalent chain wheel would be needed (or by the 14t)

There may not be an exact size chain wheel available so go for the 'as near as dam it size'

So 54T with 11 = 4.9

13t equivalent = 13x4.9 = 63.8

14t equivalent = 14x4.9 = 68.6

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Edited November 15, 201213 yr by Old_Dave

You can still occasionally get the Shimano Megarange free-wheel with 11T top. I managed to get a couple a few months back, Looking at it, it doesn't look as good as a DNP, but it has a replaceable top gear, which I hope is the same as a cassette one but probably isn't. I think that the main reason the DNP one gets slagged off on ES is because it's not as good as a quality cassette. I've found nothing wrong with them.

Don't waste your time with 13T or 14T free-wheels on a folder. The cheapest and most convenient option is still a 11T DNP one, otherwise you need a 60T chain-ring if you can find one.

When yoou electrify a bike, yoou normally need to raise the gearing because of the help you get from the motor. Any lowering of the gearing will just spoil the ride.

Check this out...£291 bid for a Shimano 11T freewheel which would have cost what, £30-£50 a few years back before they stopped making them? Crazy! That's how rare they're becoming I guess.

Shimano 7 Speed 11 28 Hyperglide Freewheel "Mega 7" | eBay

I just bought a DNP Epoch 11T-28T and ended up getting from China in the end for $32. It was either that, or get a Sturmey Archer 13T-28T..but when I saw the price of new chainwheels/chainsets I decided against it.

Hi New 9 speed free-wheel 11/32 Fantastic new wide bearings we fit them now waiting for the 8 speed

we buy all our free-wheels from David super supplier

Sunrace MFEX 9- 9 speed E-bike freewheel. 11-32 Chrome plate. New /unused | eBay

frank

I just checked mine. It isn't Shimano after all. It's different to my other DNPs and has "Mega" written on it, which is what threw me. Disregard everything I said in the above post.

I'll see how I get on this with DNP I'm hoping its new stock rather than old which seemed to have some QC issues according to some users (noisy transition, 5th or 6th gear not working) and premature wearing of teeth.. I noticed some discussions on Endless Sphere with one of DNPs Canadian sales reps who says these probs have been been straightened out after listening to feedback from customers.. I had a look at their website (DNP in Taiwan) and they supply only to the trade in batches of 26 freewheels.. since they're so scarce in UK I've asked for a price and might offer them via eBay for eBike builders if mine checks it out ok..they have a good range of gears available too

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by morphix

I've been running a DNP 7-speed 11T for about 1000 miles.

Not sure if I have the new type though.

I would say that it is slightly noisier than Shimano equivalents, but not by a great deal.

One potential problem though, if fitting to a hub motor, is the lack of support at the 11T end with the hub axle.

There's quite a gap between the axle and the inside of the cog.

If you pedal hard using the 11T ring, this can create a lot of stress pressure on the side casing of the hub motor.

Mine ended up cracking the side casing (see picture) and because I was pedaling off the seat, nearly threw me when it went.

After replacing the cover, I learnt to adjust my riding style. Letting the motor do a lot more of the work and no more hard off the seat pedaling.

Someone on Endless Sphere has found a solution, by inserting a tight fitting bearing into the end, to support the freewheel.

[ATTACH]4448.vB[/ATTACH]

If you do choose the other route and opt for a 60 tooth chain ring, bicycle engineers Highpath Engineering supplied me one made by a French company. Highpath offer a range of them or can make to order.

.

Edited November 16, 201213 yr by flecc

If you do choose the other route and opt for a 60 tooth chain ring, bicycle engineers Highpath Engineering supplied me one made by a French company. Highpath offer a range of them or can make to order.

.

Was that expensive flecc? I've been looking at the cost of chain rings and I'm shocked how expensive they are, CHEAP ones are like £50 and some go to insane prices like £300!

Large chainrings....at a price of course......

PARTS & ACCESSORIES :: Components - Gears - Chainrings - TA :: Spa Cycles, Harrogate - The touring cyclists specialist.

Alan

Was that expensive flecc? I've been looking at the cost of chain rings and I'm shocked how expensive they are, CHEAP ones are like £50 and some go to insane prices like £300!

Yes it was, I can't remember exactly how much offhand but think it was something like £93.

£1.50 per tooth plus P & P!

There's quite a gap between the axle and the inside of the cog.

If you pedal hard using the 11T ring, this can create a lot of stress pressure on the side casing of the hub motor.

Mine ended up cracking the side casing (see picture)

I've come to the conclusion that only three gears are really needed on my bike anyway - and I still have the three chainwheels up front, which I intend to reduce to a pair.

If the 11toothed cog will screw further down onto the the freewheel body, I'd be inclined to shed some of the other cogs and reduce the leverage on the casing that way. Remains to be seen how achievable that is, for some of the freewheel designs preclude that, from what I see.

Why are chainrings so expensive! Freewheels look more complicated to make yet are much cheaper!

These big chain rings are one-offs or small batch production whereas the freewheels and cassettes are turned out in their millions. Freewheels, less so, nowadays.

I've come to the conclusion that only three gears are really needed on my bike anyway - and I still have the three chainwheels up front, which I intend to reduce to a pair.

If the 11toothed cog will screw further down onto the the freewheel body, I'd be inclined to shed some of the other cogs and reduce the leverage on the casing that way. Remains to be seen how achievable that is, for some of the freewheel designs preclude that, from what I see.

That's an interesting thought Scimitar I guess if you don't plan to ride unpowered you only really need a very high gear (11T) for assistance and maybe something in the middle for mid-way assistance power level, and then a very low comfortable gear for unpowered emergencies.. maybe 24T or 26T. Less weight on the bike and redundant gears! I was initially going to do something like that myself and even considering single gear (11T) but after riding the Mezzo I just loved riding it unpowered and think I'd like to do that to keep fit.

I only use two gears anyway - 32T for taking away from a standstill and then whang it straight onto the 13T for cruising and back to the 32T when coming to a junction.

With two front chainwheels and three at the back I'd be covered for unpowered riding, because that gives a very good range.

When I had a 3spd bike years ago, I never felt the lack of gears - it did what it needed to do and got me around.

This raises an interesting question. Is the trend mow towards cassettes, or freewheels? There is a guy who has a stall on the local market selling bike parts and doing a few repairs. He tells me that the trend is towards freewheels, but I am not sure if others would agree.

Freewheels were definitely on the way out until the Chinese re-introduced them to the West with their hub-motored e-bikes. It would be harder to adequately and cheaply engineer a cassette system onto a hub with a high degree of reliability, I would think.

Just look at how easy and cheap it is to obtain an 11T cassette cluster on ebay - compared to freewheels. That's really down to scale of demand and manufacture.

Even buying one direct from aliexpress is more expensive than I can find a cassette on the 'bay.

Aliexpress.com : Buy DNP Epoch 7 Speed Freewheel Cog 11 28T 7S speed For shimano system bike MTB cassette mountain xc from Reliable bike bicycle sports suppliers on Bike Bicycle Accessories Wholesaler(Free shipping)

That's the one I'll be ordering next week, I think. I'll have a go at reducing the cog count, too.

It would be harder to adequately and cheaply engineer a cassette system onto a hub with a high degree of reliability, I would think.

Just look at how easy and cheap it is to obtain an 11T cassette cluster on ebay - compared to freewheels.

I don't think it's very difficult. A guy managed to bolt a cassette hub on to the side of a Bafang BPM motor in his shed after machining off the free-wheel. He sent it to Bafang, and they used it to develop the Bafang CST motor, which I'm just trialling at the moment. I don't know why it has to be so much more expensive than the BPM, because the rest of thr motor is the same.

8FUN¡¡Motor

I don't think it's very difficult. A guy managed to bolt a cassette hub on to the side of a Bafang BPM motor in his shed after machining off the free-wheel. He sent it to Bafang, and they used it to develop the Bafang CST motor, which I'm just trialling at the moment. I don't know why it has to be so much more expensive than the BPM, because the rest of thr motor is the same.

8FUN¡¡Motor

The key is reliability and simplicity. There's a good reason why the Chinese used the ancient freewheel setup - easy to make and can be knocked out with minimal setup. With a cassette system the splined hub would have to be either an integral part of the motor casing or bolted on - either way is more expensive to produce and likely not that good, especially if it leads to failures in customers' bikes.

I wish they would - it would make life much simpler by opening up a vast range of easily-fitted options.

I think the freewheel was fine in 1962, but that's where it belongs.

Freewheels were definitely on the way out until the Chinese re-introduced them to the West with their hub-motored e-bikes. It would be harder to adequately and cheaply engineer a cassette system onto a hub with a high degree of reliability, I would think.

Just look at how easy and cheap it is to obtain an 11T cassette cluster on ebay - compared to freewheels. That's really down to scale of demand and manufacture.

Even buying one direct from aliexpress is more expensive than I can find a cassette on the 'bay.

Aliexpress.com : Buy DNP Epoch 7 Speed Freewheel Cog 11 28T 7S speed For shimano system bike MTB cassette mountain xc from Reliable bike bicycle sports suppliers on Bike Bicycle Accessories Wholesaler(Free shipping)

That's the one I'll be ordering next week, I think. I'll have a go at reducing the cog count, too.

That's the very one I've ordered Scimitar so I'll let you know if it's any good (if it even arrives!) unless you want to go ahead and risk it too ;-) There's only TWO stockists that I know of in US that have them for shipping to UK (one sells on eBay.com) and shipping is about $15 so I figured go to China and save on the shipping.

I agree with your last comment about freewheels being well and truly gone now in 11T (people on endless sphere are even discussing buying old bikes off eBay to salvage them!) only DNP makes them still I think and they're obviously intended for the e-bike market according to the website rather than mainstream cycle industry.. it's surprising then in their small production volume they're able to keep the price reasonably low. I wonder if Shimano and others would consider making 11T freewheels again to cater for the growing e-bike user market? Probably not due to low volume and if they did, would be very high price premium I bet.

I asked DNP the weight and they confirmed that 11T-28T is 550g, so a bit on the heavy side compared to some 14T Shimano 7-spd freewheels which weigh 330g. You can see on DNP's website net shipping and gross shipping weight for 26 units is given for each freewheel type.

I've spent a week researching gears and searching extensively.. whilst freewheels are still made by Shimano and others, there's far less choice and its very unusual to see them below 14T for some reason. The lowest I found for a quality brand is 13T and that's Sturmey Archer for the bargain price of £15.. I suspect that is "old new" stock as I could only find one vendor in UK stocking them. I did find a site that stocks salvaged freewheels with quality makes and reasonable prices they didn't have very many or any 11T's though as I recall.

I saw some talk on Endless Sphere about an adaptor being available for conversion of freewheel hub to take cassettes. Maybe that makes more sense and then we're not so limited on gearing options? What's the practical considerations about the adaptor approach..less reliable or difficult to fit etc?

BMS stocks freewheels for $8 but don't state the gear range, but be interesting to see if they're 11T and DNP, but it doesn't look like it from the pic. I will ask them and report back. The Chinese e-bike kit sellers attitude towards gears seems to like they're an afterthought.. there doesn't seem to be any serious consideration to people who want to use all their gears and want a proper set of gearing..and importantly the ability to ride at 11T to keep up with gears! Weird.

EDIT: BMS only stock a Shimano 14T-28T.

Edited November 17, 201213 yr by morphix

BMS stocks freewheels for $8 but don't state the gear range, but be interesting to see if they're 11T and DNP, but it doesn't look like it from the pic. I will ask them and report back. The Chinese e-bike kit sellers attitude towards gears seems to like they're an afterthought.. there doesn't seem to be any serious consideration to people who have a serious cycles and want a proper set of gearing..or the ability to ride at 11T to keep up with gears! Weird.

They're 14T

They're 14T

I see they updated their page now probably after too many people asking ;-)

What's the practical considerations about the adaptor approach

I'd say (only my own personal musings with no disrespect to any one involved in the creation of such a device... god bless them) From long term stresses and development costs its not the better option..

Even though we have discussed changing the chain wheel option (some like it and some don't) it's IMHO the easer and in the long term cheaper solution if theres room.