Dalston fatal e-bike crash rider 'going too fast' - Court Case

[RobF]

Clearly you seem to believe our legal system today is perfection itself and uncorruptible

Stop making unfounded assumptions.

I don't believe the legal system is perfect or free from corruption.

But wherever that does happen, it's not in relation to a routine death by careless case involving ordinary members of the public.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

But wherever that does happen, it's not in relation to a routine death by careless case involving ordinary members of the public.

Hardly "routine" when the newspapers had headlines about "electric bike cyclist...", this was one of the first cases to go to court where the rider of an illegal ebike killed a pedestrian.

I can't help thinking that if it had been an uninsured driver of an illegal untested car who had been driving at around 30mph in a 20mph limit where there were many pedestrians then the outcome would have been a lot different.

No wonder the killer broken down in tears, not even he was expecting that outcome.

 

[flecc]

Stop making unfounded assumptions.

That's rich, considering the assumptions you've made about what I've posted.

I don't believe the legal system is perfect or free from corruption.

Thank you, now we are getting somewhere. That saves me having to type many instances of actual evidence of what I've contended can and does happen.

But wherever that does happen, it's not in relation to a routine death by careless case involving ordinary members of the public.

Maybe not, yet how strange that it's happened in a much lesser e-bike case concerning using it illegally with no-one hurt at all. I've reported on that previously in this forum on at least two instances.
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[RobF]

Hardly "routine" when the newspapers had headlines about "electric bike cyclist...", this was one of the first cases to go to court where the rider of an illegal ebike killed a pedestrian.

I can't help thinking that if it had been an uninsured driver of an illegal untested car who had been driving at around 30mph in a 20mph limit where there were many pedestrians then the outcome would have been a lot different.

No wonder the killer broken down in tears, not even he was expecting that outcome.

Sadly for the victims, the offence of death by careless is mundane in legal terms.

It's not even regarded as serious enough to automatically go to the crown court.

Scary thought that Fred and Edna on your local bench could decide such matters, but they could.

 

[flecc]

Sadly for the victims, the offence of death by careless is mundane in legal terms.

It's not even regarded as serious enough to automatically go to the crown court.

Scary thought that Fred and Edna on your local bench could decided such matters, but they could.

Absolutely true Rob and made even worse by the current decision that to cope with the shortage of magistrates, the bench now only needs two when necessary, rather than three.
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[Deleted member 25121]

Sadly for the victims, the offence of death by careless is mundane in legal terms.

It's not even regarded as serious enough to automatically go to the crown court.

Scary thought that Fred and Edna on your local bench could decide such matters, but they could.

That wasn't my point, but I think you know that don't you.

 

[RobF]

That wasn't my point, but I think you know that don't you.

No, I don't know what your point is.

You mention significant press coverage, but that's hardly relevant to any legal concerns.

Lots of legally mundane cases get loads of press coverage if there's something else interesting in them.

Caroline Flack is a good example.

Slightly unusual in that the woman assaulted the man, but the offence itself was routine and trivial in terms of assaults.

The courts are swamped with similar cases of low level domestic violence to such an extent that some courts have dedicated sitting days each week to deal with the volume.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

No, I don't know what your point is.

You mention significant press coverage, but that's hardly relevant to any legal concerns.

Lots of legally mundane cases get loads of press coverage if there's something else interesting in them.

Caroline Flack is a good example.

Slightly unusual in that the woman assaulted the man, but the offence itself was routine and trivial in terms of assaults.

The courts are swamped with similar cases of low level domestic violence to such an extent that some courts have dedicated sitting days each week to deal with the volume.

So you've changed the subject to domestic violence now, what a joker.

 

[RobF]

So you've changed the subject to domestic violence now, what a joker.

No I haven't, I'm searching for your point.

Although it appears all you want to do is make snippy remarks.

Fine, carry on.

 

[Deleted member 25121]

No I haven't, I'm searching for your point.

Although it appears all you want to do is make snippy remarks.

Fine, carry on.

OK, let's try again and I'll try and keep it as simple as possible for you:

I can't help thinking that if it had been an uninsured driver of an illegal untested car who had been driving at around 30mph in a 20mph limit where there were many pedestrians then the outcome would have been a lot different. No wonder the killer broken down in tears, not even he was expecting that outcome.

You seem to be trying to make out it was a routine case, it was hardly that when the newspapers had headlines about "electric bike cyclist...", this was one of the first cases to go to court where the rider of an illegal ebike killed a pedestrian.

Why has the case had so much response on here it it was just another case of a pedestrian being killed????

 

[RobF]

I've seen car drivers been found not guilty of death by careless, and guilty at magistrates' court and not locked up.

And guilty at crown and gone to prison, so there is a wide range.

If the circumstances were identical, apart from the killer driver being in a car rather than on a bike, it's likely he would face the same charges.

Cynics say most jurors are motorists, so they are reluctant to find any driver guilty if there's any possibility they can put it down to an accident.

Particularly true in cases of death by careless.

Death by dangerous is more clear cut because the driving is so bad even a car-centric juror would not approve of it.

 

[soundwave]

we are all fooked

 

[Deleted member 25121]

I've seen car drivers been found not guilty of death by careless, and guilty at magistrates' court and not locked up.

And guilty at crown and gone to prison, so there is a wide range.

If the circumstances were identical, apart from the killer driver being in a car rather than on a bike, it's likely he would face the same charges.

Cynics say most jurors are motorists, so they are reluctant to find any driver guilty if there's any possibility they can put it down to an accident.

Particularly true in cases of death by careless.

Death by dangerous is more clear cut because the driving is so bad even a car-centric juror would not approve of it.

I'm watching Question Time and despairing at Matt Hancock who, like your good self, seems to be incapable of answering a straightforward question. His tactics are either to generalise to the point of being meaningless or to simply try and change the subject.

Those techniques are part of political training, are they also taught to the police I wonder....

 

[Bobajob]

I'm guessing he's saying that many of the people on here who are calling for severe punishment of the rider will have ridden themselves irresponsibly in the past.

Thankyou I thought even someone educationally challenged would have seen the relevance.
One born every minute I believe Henry Ford said.

 

[LeighPing]

Why has the case had so much response on here it it was just another case of a pedestrian being killed????

Probably because of the 'we have something in common' factor. Which makes it relevant and of interest if you ride an ebike. Legally or otherwise.

Those techniques are part of political training, are they also taught to the police I wonder....

Survival is an intrinsic value of all living things. Mankind has simply made it an art-form.

 

[Amoto65]

Thankyou I thought even someone educationally challenged would have seen the relevance.
One born every minute I believe Henry Ford said.

Oh the irony, as you quoted before from your book of fairytales " he who hath no sin cast the first stone"

 

[BazP]

The law is an ass.

Exactly and this is the same law that makes assistance above 15.5 mph illegal.

 

[Nealh]

Exactly and this is the same law that makes assistance above 15.5 mph illegal.

Surely this is because your average cycle rider doesn't ride at or above 25km/h on a pushbike so the 25km/h limit was set, those who do ride above the assist limit can do but have to rely on there own energy to do so.
As I see it anyone who does and can regularly toot along at well above the assist speed and more so near 19/20 mph isn't really in the need for an ebike.

 

[gw8izr]

Surely this is because your average cycle rider doesn't ride at or above 25km/h on a pushbike so the 25km/h limit was set, those who do ride above the assist limit can do but have to rely on there own energy to do so.
As I see it anyone who does and can regularly toot along at well above the assist speed and more so near 19/20 mph isn't really in the need for an ebike.

I can easily hustle along at 20mph on the flat even on my heavy mtb, I can sustain that for quite long distances but it doesn’t take much of an incline to make me feel my hernia and that motor just helps me climb... but I agree with the sentiment of your statement

Today I was out taking pics so I was seriously loaded up, I tried a couple of things whilst thinking of this thread and the one thing that I determined was “if” the bloke was actually travelling at 30mph amongst pedestrians and other traffic IMHO he was inevitably going to have a collision.

 

[flecc]

Exactly and this is the same law that makes assistance above 15.5 mph illegal.

And very sensible too.
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