Cycling. Health. Covid. Diet.

Peter.Bridge

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Apr 19, 2023
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Well, that is some detailed review Peter!

I bought the book about two years ago and read it avidly. It is absolutely correct that Chan and Ridley conclude that there is no definite proof either way in the sense of either an animal reservoir of the actual Sars-Cov-2 virus and indeed, no animals or people have been found with anything near to the actual virus we are talking about in the sense that it is a step or ten away from being Sars-Cov-2. Even the RaTG13 is said by those who know to be decades of mutation away fromm the actual virus, and so is the Banal52 one, so where did it do all that mutation without leaving a trail. You would expect animals to be found. They certainly have been in other zoonotic transfers and they were found rapidly.

If the matter was one of criminal wildlife traders who disposed of the evidence, where are the infected traders with antecedent versions of the mutating virus? There are none.

The other thing of course and I think I recall reading this point in the book - Chinese officials have removed evidence and disposed of it. You can't get samples from the testing data from the Wuhan market. You just have to take their conclusions, but even they don't claim to have found the origin infections. All we know is that the outbreak happened near the market which is near the virus laboratory that was doing gain of function research on bat corona viruses and that the virus exploded into the world, unlike every other zoonotic transfer, almost perfectly ready to transmit person to person.

As an example of how unlikely that is, we regularly see transfers of ability in viruses to go from one kind of host to another, but when they start out, they are pretty bad at it. We see H5N1 now causing concern in pigs, cattle and birds. Some workers doing culling of infected animals have contracted it and become pretty unwell, but it does not spread from one to another of the people around them. The information is that most of these cull workers got blood in their eyes from the culling process. Apparently the personal protection rules have not been very good. They did not wear goggles. Some in Vietnam got the new H5N1 by drinking raw animal blood (FFSke). No dout after a time in infected people, the virus would be likely to mutate to spread more easily and who knows what after that? The point is, Sars-Cov-2 exploded into action when there was no history of it being in people before. No one has been found.

So, having read the book, having considered the review, AND the fact that we know the Chinese authorities have hidden data and obstructed further investigation, I am not inclined to change my mind.

This virus emerged from the WIV in the late part of 2019. It had been changed in the lab. They WERE changing exactly that sort of virus in that lab - they had asked for funding to do it.


By the way - my arguments are not really any sort of anti-Chinese rant. It isn't about that. I think this is a very important topic because gain of function research is EXTREMELY dangerous. It is happening elsewhere too and people make mistakes. Lots of times viruses have got out of labs. It is too risky and should be banned. It is almost insane I think to take viruses we have no prior immunity to, which do not infect human beings and then tinker with them to help them infect our own tissues. It is insane and should stop right now.
Just saw this - not sure I noticed it a the time



I struggle to know how to choose between different experts in an area I have no expertises - my imperfect instinct is to trust the side that is less sure that they are right - I think in this case that is (the scientific concensus ?) that it is more probably zoonotic but could have possibly come from a lab

I notice that Richard H Ebright (who favours the "lab leak" theory) and was mentioned extensively in the BMJ article says recently

"All informed parties and persons--without exception--have known for five years."

which implies that most of the relevant scientific community are knowingly lying
 
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matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
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Interesting and valuable insights. Why exercise won't make you lose weight, but why it is nevertheless essential to good health.

Well worth a listen.

Maybe later!

My initial reaction to the first few minutes is that arctic canoeists on a keto diet don't have much in common with the western obesity epidemic!
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
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Interesting and valuable insights. Why exercise won't make you lose weight, but why it is nevertheless essential to good health.

Well worth a listen.

Exercise does make you lose weight. Thunderf00t provided all the scientific calculations and tests to prove the relationship between what you eat, what you breathe and what you do. This will give you a better explanation than anything from the BBC.
 

AndyBike

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 8, 2020
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Just saw this - not sure I noticed it a the time



I struggle to know how to choose between different experts in an area I have no expertises - my imperfect instinct is to trust the side that is less sure that they are right - I think in this case that is (the scientific concensus ?) that it is more probably zoonotic but could have possibly come from a lab

I notice that Richard H Ebright (who favours the "lab leak" theory) and was mentioned extensively in the BMJ article says recently

"All informed parties and persons--without exception--have known for five years."

which implies that most of the relevant scientific community are knowingly lying
OK, there is a lot of talk about engineered viruses, but if you look at the most deadly flu virus, named the '*Spanish flu' which killed possibly up to 100 million people, that was not engineered.
So we can at least say that natural viruses are extremely dangerous.
And with that understanding, its fair to say that the covid one could be naturally occurring and still be extremely dangerous to human health.

Interesting info titbit -
* Spanish flu, was first recorded in the US, namely in Kansas. So it should actually be called American flu.
Titbit 2
Did you know that foot and mouth was also first recorded in the US. It is understood to have originated in the stockyards of intensive cattle farming**

** Intensive farming, like the type of intensive farming you see in China(after all, they have a hell of a lot of people to feed) Which suggests that the covid virus could well have developed somewhere intensive farming happens.
This plays away from the notion of an engineered virus that somehow escaped the lab.
 
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Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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Just saw this - not sure I noticed it a the time



I struggle to know how to choose between different experts in an area I have no expertises - my imperfect instinct is to trust the side that is less sure that they are right - I think in this case that is (the scientific concensus ?) that it is more probably zoonotic but could have possibly come from a lab

I notice that Richard H Ebright (who favours the "lab leak" theory) and was mentioned extensively in the BMJ article says recently

"All informed parties and persons--without exception--have known for five years."

which implies that most of the relevant scientific community are knowingly lying
Thanks for the link Peter.

I read the article you referenced.

It suggests that there may have been a natural zoonotic transfer into a human variant in the wildlife trade in racoon dogs prior to the outbreak.

Alina Chan and Matt Ridely's book, 'Viral', looks at this idea, and the questions that jumps out at me were asked by them too:

If the virus mutated among animals being farmed or captured from the wild, why has no animal reservoir ever been found that was circulating on farms or in the wild prior to the outbreak? Despite diligent searching, no such population reservoir has ever been found.

If prior to the outbreak in Wuhan, people were handling wild, or farmed animals which were infected with Sars-Cov-2 (which we know is extremely infectious to humans) why has no group of workers been found who were infected in those trades prior to the outbreak in Wuhan?


This is the smoking gun for me, alongside the obfuscation and control imposed by the Chinese authorities.

The fact that Sars-Covi-2 was found on swabs in the market alongside animal DNA in January 2020 simply means that Sars-Covi-2 was all over the place by January 2020. We know of course that they sold racoon dogs in that market, so there is no surprise that both kinds of dna were there, We knew that already. By then the virus was all over the planet. I expect you could have found the virus by then in Borough Market in London too. It was found in sewage in South America in late 2019.

Quote from the article you referenced:

"The limitation of the work is that market samples were not taken before the market closed around 1st January 2020 and the pandemic viruses are thought to have arisen 4-6 weeks before this date. The virus results are what one might expect to find had the pandemic originally arisen around a wildlife market stall or stalls – but they cannot provide direct evidence of this simply because of the sampling dates."

I'm sure you picked this up yourself when you read it.
 
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Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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Maybe later!

My initial reaction to the first few minutes is that arctic canoeists on a keto diet don't have much in common with the western obesity epidemic!
What interested me about that part of the programme was that the Arctic Canoeist made two trips:

He canoed six to ten hours a day, and camped for a month up the west coast of Greenland eating a primeval diet of seal, fish and meat and went from 90 kilos to 75 kilos. He was making extreme levels of exertion each day

He returned to the UK and rapidly regained the weight he had lost.

Then he returned to Greenland, sat in a hotel for a month and ate seal flipper, fermented birds and the previous innuit diet and did no exercise and again he lost the same amount of weight in a month - dropping from 90 kilos to 75 kilos.

He did no exercise and lost the same amount of weight.

It was the diet not the exertion.

This is in line with scientific knowledge anyway.

Exercise is nevertheless vital to our wellbeing. It just won't make you lose much weight, because the body compensates for calories used up in exercise by shutting down other processes.
 

Ghost1951

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Jun 2, 2024
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Maybe later!

My initial reaction to the first few minutes is that arctic canoeists on a keto diet don't have much in common with the western obesity epidemic!
I think it is well established that the western obesity epidemic is caused by the over consumption of cheap carbohydrates, in manufactured foods that are high in sugars particularly and also high in fats. To my mind, over consumption of sugars and their close relative, refined starches, are the bogeymen.
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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Which soft drink has the highest sugar content?


10 of the highest sugar fizzy drinks (per 500ml)
  • Pepsi 56g (14 tsps)
  • Red Bull 55g (13.5 tsps)
  • Monster Energy 55g (13.5 tsps)
  • Coca Cola 54g (13.5 tsps)
  • Fentimans Cherry Coke 39g (9.5 tsps)
  • 7up 35g (8.5 tsps)
  • San Pellegrino 24.5g (6 tsps)
  • Irn Bru, Dr Pepper, Fanta, Lilt 24g (6 tsps)
 

matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
2,113
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I suspect that hunger and good palatability are also at play. In the canoeist's case, I suspect that some of those bizarre foodstuffs are probably inedible unless starving, so weight loss until hunger kicks in would not surprise me.

In my pre-Christmas low exercise period each year, I put on 3 to 5 kg simply from mince pies, and it stays on until my first major trip of the new year.

The weight gain is from eating what I want instead of what I need, and the loss from much more exercise combined with generally eating less than when I am inactive.
 
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matthewslack

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2021
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...and those sugar amounts are scary! I get three weeks of breakfasts out of 500g of tasty relatively unrefined sugar, so about 24g per day, so I am no saint.

But multiple soft drinks in a day adds up alarmingly!
 
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Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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...and those sugar amounts are scary! I get three weeks of breakfasts out of 500g of tasty relatively unrefined sugar, so about 24g per day, so I am no saint.

But multiple soft drinks in a day adds up alarmingly!
Yeah - I'm no saint either. I just called in on my partner, both of us having resolved to stop eating rubbish - though neither of us do eat a lot of it anyway.

She offered me a nice filter coffee and then a shortbread biscuit of the rather tasty sort. I ate the biscuit, thereby undoing much of the good my 10,000 step morning walk had given me. 'The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.'

I don't have the advantage of the extreme cycle explorations that are part of your life though so I can't afford these lapses as you might with your mince pies.

EDIT:

Yes on the point of palatability and walrus meat or worse, the so called 'fermented' Inuit foods (rotten). I think though that a lot of his weight loss whether paddling on one trip and sitting around in a hotel on another was down to the almost total lack of carbohydrate in the diet. Yes - we convert protein into carbs in our own body, but he wasn't eating it as carbohydrate.
 

Ghost1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2024
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