Cycle helmets debate

[flecc]

Just because an argument may be sterile with entrenched views it does not cease to be important, interesting or warranted. If we all said whats the point in arguing the toss because we'll never agree the world would be much poorer for it and difficult issues would never be resolved.

Regards
Paul

Quite true Paul. What makes this issue different though is the potential for enforcement in law, the hidden agenda of the pro-brigade. Sensible discussions don't normally end that way, and for those of us who think we are already grossly over governed, it moves beyond sensitive into objectionable.
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[Jeremy]

I agree, it is a sterile argument, but it has brought out some useful points of view and highlighted some of the daft logic that can be applied to justify both wearing, and not wearing, a helmet.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm one of the anti-helmet brigade, I'm not. I'm firmly on the side of personal choice, based on a sound, evidence-based risk assessment. If I rode an upright I'd wear a helmet, no question about it. The risk of going over the handlebars and banging one's head is significant enough (in my personal view) to warrant head protection. However, riding the 'bent makes an over-the-handlebar event impossible, and the probability of banging ones head is extremely low, what's needed is trousers with an armoured seat............

What has slightly miffed me is the "must wear a helmet" rule that has been imposed at the Presteign event. As a 'bent rider (for whom wearing a helmet is a fairly pointless exercise, for obvious reasons) I'm apparently banned from this event.

I was seriously thinking of going, both with my electric 'bent and my hybrid car, but if I have to shell out a fair few quid for a useless ornament, just for a one-off day out, then I just shan't go.

Add in the fact that I'd have to take the padded head rest off my 'bent in order to wear a helmet, something I don't wish to do, and the whole helmet thing becomes not only unnecessary but also totally impractical.

Jeremy

 

[flecc]

What has slightly miffed me is the "must wear a helmet" rule that has been imposed at the Presteign event. As a 'bent rider (for whom wearing a helmet is a fairly pointless exercise, for obvious reasons) I'm apparently banned from this event.

I was seriously thinking of going, both with my electric 'bent and my hybrid car, but if I have to shell out a fair few quid for a useless ornament, just for a one-off day out, then I just shan't go.

Add in the fact that I'd have to take the padded head rest off my 'bent in order to wear a helmet, something I don't wish to do, and the whole helmet thing becomes not only unnecessary but also totally impractical.

Jeremy

Another very good reason why these "back door" enforcements are undesirable Jeremy. As you say, unnecessary and on many 'bents impractical, but difficult to separate for rule purposes. Would a semi recumbent be excluded, and at what degree of semi-recumbent?

If the rule isn't made in the first place, these problems don't arise.
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[Ian]

As as long as the do-gooders continue to preach I'm happy, for it means we still have a choice.

 

[StrangeFish]

I agree, it is a sterile argument, but it has brought out some useful points of view and highlighted some of the daft logic that can be applied to justify both wearing, and not wearing, a helmet.

Just in case anyone thinks I'm one of the anti-helmet brigade, I'm not. I'm firmly on the side of personal choice, based on a sound, evidence-based risk assessment. If I rode an upright I'd wear a helmet, no question about it. The risk of going over the handlebars and banging one's head is significant enough (in my personal view) to warrant head protection. However, riding the 'bent makes an over-the-handlebar event impossible, and the probability of banging ones head is extremely low, what's needed is trousers with an armoured seat............

What has slightly miffed me is the "must wear a helmet" rule that has been imposed at the Presteign event. As a 'bent rider (for whom wearing a helmet is a fairly pointless exercise, for obvious reasons) I'm apparently banned from this event.

I was seriously thinking of going, both with my electric 'bent and my hybrid car, but if I have to shell out a fair few quid for a useless ornament, just for a one-off day out, then I just shan't go.

Add in the fact that I'd have to take the padded head rest off my 'bent in order to wear a helmet, something I don't wish to do, and the whole helmet thing becomes not only unnecessary but also totally impractical.

Jeremy

Hi Jeremy! So you are a "bent" ebiker!! Being new to ebiking, I am not at all sure why you feel we have to be informed about this! Am I missing something here? Perhaps I'm just getting tired now and need to get to bed !!!

 

[Footie]

Hi Jeremy! So you are a "bent" ebiker!! Being new to ebiking, I am not at all sure why you feel we have to be informed about this! Am I missing something here?

Now that's funny (Sorry Jeremy)
I'm sure Jeremy will explain things


I have to admit that I'm not a regular helmet wearer, sometimes I do sometimes I don't.
I have hit the tarmac a few times (never wearing a helmet) and I can say from experience - it hurts.
More by luck than anything else I have always managed to keep my head away from the hard stuff.

To wear a cycle helmet or not to wear a cycle helmet, that is the question.
While the choice remains so will the heated debates.
I am sure one day it will be made law (just like it was made law for motorcycles).
At the moment the "question of choice" (and blame should it go wrong) rests squarely on the shoulders of the participating individuals.
In a black and white world - One makes ones choice and lives with it
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[flecc]

I am sure one day it will be made law (just like it was made law for motorcycles).

.

I'm equally sure it wont as it's a very different case. As I've posted before, governments want people to get out of cars and cycle and are fully aware that nothing would deter more than such a measure. That's why our governments have resisted every attempt at enforcement. Even the attempt last year to make it compulsory for children was suppressed by them, as they knew it was a thin edge of the wedge approach by the sponsor.

Since the legislation mad EU also refuses enforcement and all the cycling bodies and magazines are opposed, I see not the slightest chance of enforcement in the forseeable future.
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[Ian]

A quick search found that in 2006 there were 675 pedistrian fatalities and 146 cyclist fatalities on UK roads, it therefore follows that enforcing helmets for pedestrians would make more sense. As it is almost certain that many of these accidents happened at night making lighting compulsory for pedestrians would also help reduce casualties. I think I'll go and see my MP, ...and my MEP

 

[Jeremy]

Hi Jeremy! So you are a "bent" ebiker!! Being new to ebiking, I am not at all sure why you feel we have to be informed about this! Am I missing something here?

'bent is common biking shorthand for a recumbent bike, one that has the rider in a laid back position on a fully supported seat, rather than perched up in the air on a saddle. Here is a picture of mine:

 

[Mandy]

It did die once at 7 pages long, until someone went back several pages through the forum and raked it up again for five more pages of helmet trivia.
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-------- Oops sorry Flecc, that was me, but you must admit though there have been some amusing posts since ------- .
I like the bent bike one the best

I would NOT want to see cycle helmets become compulsory as I think this Country/Goverment have taken far too many of our choices away over the years! Yes I remember a few, lol!!

Regards

Mandy

 

[stokepa31]

I have a potentialy stupid question but.... how do you get going on yer bent without falling over? is it more unstable initially and at slow speeds.

Regards
Paul

 

[frank9755]

A quick search found that in 2006 there were 675 pedistrian fatalities and 146 cyclist fatalities on UK roads, it therefore follows that enforcing helmets for pedestrians would make more sense. As it is almost certain that many of these accidents happened at night making lighting compulsory for pedestrians would also help reduce casualties. I think I'll go and see my MP, ...and my MEP

I don't have the statistics to hand but believe that even more car drivers and their passengers are killed on UK roads. Therefore, Ian, while you are having the conversation, it would seem prudent to take up with your elected representatives the case for making helmets compulsory for all occupants of motor vehicles!

 

[flecc]

and 146 cyclist fatalities on UK roads,

More than 1000 people die each year falling down staircases, seven for every cyclist killed. One such person was my brother's first wife, Sarah.

Shows how safe the roads really are in comparison with our homes.
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[Mandy]

'bent is common biking shorthand for a recumbent bike, one that has the rider in a laid back position on a fully supported seat, rather than perched up in the air on a saddle. Here is a picture of mine:

Hi Jeremy

Now that looks ! However I would be worried about getting going on it too and would think it may take some getting used to?
I wouldn't mind having a go on one though but would probably fall off at my first pedal stroke
I can't see how they can make helmets compulsory at the Presteigns event it is not law? Can you not appeal due to the style of your bike?
I am hoping to go and would like to see this one used and not an ornament!
Would like to have a go myself but may need stabalisers attached
Regards
Mandy

 

[Jeremy]

I have a potentialy stupid question but.... how do you get going on yer bent without falling over? is it more unstable initially and at slow speeds.

It's an acquired art, Paul!

It is less stable than an upright, particularly at low speeds. The trick with starting is to do the following:

- Apply the brakes with your feet on the ground.

- Put your "starting foot" (right foot for me) on the pedal, at the top of the stroke.

- Push forwards hard with your "starting foot" then release the brakes.

- Pick up your other foot and get it on the pedal quickly.

If you get it wrong you fall over.............

Starting is a lot easier with the motor, as a little throttle takes away any chance of falling over.

Bringing this vaguely back on-topic, when you do fall off you slide out of the seat and land on your backside. Trousers with a stout and padded backside would be a definite advantage, at least whilst learning the quirks of the bike. There is a strong tendency for your hands to stay gripping the bars, so they tend not to get hurt, similarly your head tends not to get near enough anything to get damaged either. It is quite undignified to suddenly find yourself sitting upright on the road, though..........

Mandy,

You're more than welcome to a go, it's not too tricky, just a bit different. The only snag is that adjusting the pedal distance is quite restricted without taking chain links out, it's set at the moment for an inside leg of about 32"; the dérailleur will take up maybe an inch or so inwards, but not much more without shortening the chain. Leg length is set by sliding the front boom tube in and out, to move the whole pedal assembly forwards or back.

Jeremy

 

[Mandy]

It's an acquired art, Paul!

It is less stable than an upright, particularly at low speeds. The trick with starting is to do the following:

- Apply the brakes with your feet on the ground.

- Put your "starting foot" (right foot for me) on the pedal, at the top of the stroke.

- Push forwards hard with your "starting foot" then release the brakes.

- Pick up your other foot and get it on the pedal quickly.

If you get it wrong you fall over.............

Starting is a lot easier with the motor, as a little throttle takes away any chance of falling over.

Bringing this vaguely back on-topic, when you do fall off you slide out of the seat and land on your backside. Trousers with a stout and padded backside would be a definite advantage, at least whilst learning the quirks of the bike. There is a strong tendency for your hands to stay gripping the bars, so they tend not to get hurt, similarly your head tends not to get near enough anything to get damaged either. It is quite undignified to suddenly find yourself sitting upright on the road, though..........

Mandy,

You're more than welcome to a go, it's not too tricky, just a bit different. The only snag is that adjusting the pedal distance is quite restricted without taking chain links out, it's set at the moment for an inside leg of about 32"; the dérailleur will take up maybe an inch or so inwards, but not much more without shortening the chain. Leg length is set by sliding the front boom tube in and out, to move the whole pedal assembly forwards or back.

Jeremy

I would love to have a go So are you going to the event? I will probably be coming by train with my SE in tow, lol!
I wanted to come last year but some how missed it
My inside leg is around 32 to 33 so hopefully wouldn't be a problem
You know these semi recummbent bikes mentioned? Are they the chopper bikes you sometimes see on ebay in the electric variety with the flames across them?
I don't like those paricular one's as they seem somewhat untasteful and could improve on the design. lol
Yours looks kind of cool though.
Regards
Mandy

 

[essexman]

This thread just got into the top 10 posted threads (excluding stickies)!!!!!

 

[flecc]

This thread just got into the top 10 posted threads (excluding stickies)!!!!!

Yes, though the 2957 views isn't special, quite few threads making over 3000.
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