Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor

[Crockers]

On the subject if warranties. The bike comes with a 2 year warranty. If after say 18 months a motor fails and a new one is fitted. The new one doesn't get a two year warranty nits only warrantied for the remainder if the original 2 tears know that's rubbish but it's the way mist warranties work n

 

[Ray Breen]

Hi Bud,

Did you happen to pay over £100 of the purchase on a credit card? if so, your credit card company is jointly liable, so it may be worth exploring this avenue with them.

 

[Tomtomato]

On the subject if warranties. The bike comes with a 2 year warranty. If after say 18 months a motor fails and a new one is fitted. The new one doesn't get a two year warranty

Yes indeed. The motor will be replaced within the first 2 years, and then the customer may have to pay for further replacements after that time, once the bike is out of warranty, at £600 a pop.

When I requested 50 Cycles to commit in writing to have a more decent/appropriate warranty on the motor (e.g. 4 years or 6,000 miles), given the high price of the bikes and high price of a replacement motor (£600), they said they wouldn't do so (so not really believing in their products, nor that the issue has indeed been resolved by the manufacturer).

Also, the issue is not just getting free part replacements, but also the speed and quality of the service (was poor and slow in my case), the time wasted by customers to bring the bike back, chase 50 Cycles etc., and the inconvenience of being possibly stranded miles away without assistance (as it happened to me).

I then notified them that I was rejecting the bike, as there are in effect no guarantees or evidences that the product is "of suitable quality" and "fit for purpose" (I would expect a £2,500 or £3,000 bike, used by a commuter 3 days a week for instance, to last at least 3 years, or 6,000 miles).

I just don't trust Kalkhoff anymore, nor 50 Cycles to provide a suitable after-sale service (in line with their prices, and high margins they are making on those bikes). They are not pro-active either in doing product recalls to avoid failures.

They said they wouldn't take the bike back in their shop anyway. They did (had no real choice), and then I heard nothing from them for several weeks.

When I chased, they offered to replace the motor again (not really acceptable, on a recent bike, and was done poorly last time), replace the full bike by the same model (not really addressing the ongoing quality issue, since same motor) or refund only 40% of the bike price, while returning it to the manufacturer (bike was 11 months old, and in perfect condition/well looked after, so much lower valuation than used bikes in same conditions).

This is not also great news for Kalkhoff buyers, in term of depreciation of those supposedly "high quality" bikes. Based on 50 Cycles' own valuation, the bikes could be basically worth hardly nothing at the end of their warranty period.

Neither options were suitable to me, and so I have had to take legal action now... Didn't seem to bother them either.

I don't really know many retailers that wouldn't try to resolve issues with their customers and come to an agreement, to avoid legal actions, particularly when the product is suffering from design flaws, is clearly not fit for purpose nor of acceptable quality, and their service is less than optimum.

 

[Tomwal]

Yes indeed. The motor will be replaced within the first 2 years, and then the customer may have to pay for further replacements after that time, once the bike is out of warranty, at £600 a pop.

When I requested 50 Cycles to commit in writing to have a more decent/appropriate warranty on the motor (e.g. 4 years or 6,000 miles), given the high price of the bikes and high price of a replacement motor (£600), they said they wouldn't do so (so not really believing in their products, nor that the issue has indeed been resolved by the manufacturer).

Also, the issue is not just getting free part replacements, but also the speed and quality of the service (was poor and slow in my case), the time wasted by customers to bring the bike back, chase 50 Cycles etc., and the inconvenience of being possibly stranded miles away without assistance (as it happened to me).

I then notified them that I was rejecting the bike, as there are in effect no guarantees or evidences that the product is "of suitable quality" and "fit for purpose" (I would expect a £2,500 or £3,000 bike, used by a commuter 3 days a week for instance, to last at least 3 years, or 6,000 miles).

I just don't trust Kalkhoff anymore, nor 50 Cycles to provide a suitable after-sale service (in line with their prices, and high margins they are making on those bikes). They are not pro-active either in doing product recalls to avoid failures.

They said they wouldn't take the bike back in their shop anyway. They did (had no real choice), and then I heard nothing from them for several weeks.

When I chased, they offered to replace the motor again (not really acceptable, on a recent bike, and was done poorly last time), replace the full bike by the same model (not really addressing the ongoing quality issue, since same motor) or refund only 40% of the bike price, while returning it to the manufacturer (bike was 11 months old, and in perfect condition/well looked after, so much lower valuation than used bikes in same conditions).

This is not also great news for Kalkhoff buyers, in term of depreciation of those supposedly "high quality" bikes. Based on 50 Cycles' own valuation, the bikes could be basically worth hardly nothing at the end of their warranty period.

Neither options were suitable to me, and so I have had to take legal action now... Didn't seem to bother them either.

I don't really know many retailers that wouldn't try to resolve issues with their customers and come to an agreement, to avoid legal actions, particularly when the product is suffering from design flaws, is clearly not fit for purpose nor of acceptable quality, and their service is less than optimum.

How is the legal action going ? Some of us may be confronting the same problems soon and would really appreciate being kept informed. .

 

[Tomtomato]

How is the legal action going ? Some of us may be confronting the same problems soon and would really appreciate being kept informed. .

It will take months, and may even go to court. If they had wanted to resolve the issue without long legal action, they would have done it already. They couldn't care less about negative publicity: they haven't received that much positive feedback for a long time, Trading Standards notified them of some issues, and they are still selling expensive bikes anyway (although clearly diversifying now).

I am confident I have enough evidences of Kalkhoff issues and 50 Cycles shortcomings (like not doing a recall for motors likely to fail) to get more than the ridiculous partial refund they offered anyway, so I have nothing to lose.

 

[Roger R]

All the best with this Tom and please keep me informed. As you know I'm on my second motor and only using in Eco to try and avoid problems again. Maybe you could refer to my YouTube videos in your case. Anyway keep me informed. Roger

Sent from my Nexus 9 using Tapatalk

 

[Tomwal]

It will take months, and may even go to court. If they had wanted to resolve the issue without long legal action, they would have done it already. They couldn't care less about negative publicity: they haven't received that much positive feedback for a long time, Trading Standards notified them of some issues, and they are still selling expensive bikes anyway (although clearly diversifying now).

I am confident I have enough evidences of Kalkhoff issues and 50 Cycles shortcomings (like not doing a recall for motors likely to fail) to get more than the ridiculous partial refund they offered anyway, so I have nothing to lose.

I am enjoying the bike at the moment. It is really nice to ride but I can't help worrying that the motor is going to pack up at any minute. It does make some irritating noises and occasional cracks which the demo bike never did. I am going in for a first free service on Friday so I will mention it to the mechanic. I hope you will keep us informed of the legal case. Thanks.

 

[natted]

Have you guys seen this post relating to the Impulse reliability? Possibly it has already been posted but just thought I'd pass it on in case it hasn't. Even has part number for the bearing etc.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=80115

What I'm trying to figure out is if this is the main type of fault or if there are other issues with the design. I was thinking to buy a bike with an Impulse 2 motor but want to make sure I can fix it if the warranty expires.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The Impulse motor does not have good press.
There have been issues with Bosch software and many don't like the small chainwheel.
Other than hot rodders frying controllers and stripping nylon gears (user serviceable) Bafang doesn't have many complaints either.
No one ever complains about Yamaha motors.

From the list above I know which one I would choose...

 

[KeithMac]

If there's enough of you you could try a group/ class action rather than individual cases?.

If they've honoured the 2 year warranty your only real leverage is "not fit for purpose".

As said credit card payments give you a few options as they are liable to you and then have to chase the seller/ supplier.

 

[Crockers]

Did they offer to replace your bike with a NEW one? If so would that have a NEW 2 year warranty? I think that's very fair offer, something a court may take into account. The 40% offer us a laugh. But lining the two offers up side by side ...is there that massive a margin in ebikes??

Must say I'm tempted more and more by Yamaha or Brose

 

[P Bieda]

I to have had to have three motor replacements in the 24 months that I have owned the bike the first one after only 6 months. I have found them willing to do the repairs but exstreamly uninterested in the dissatisfaction created buy owning an expensive bike that spends most of its time being repaired. The latested problem was a failed motor which took them over two months to replace and than I reminded them that there was a problem with the forks which they did replace but it took them another two months this was not thier fault Matt Goodes told me but kalkolffs becauce they sent the wrong ones. So after 4 months the bike was returned to me, only for me to find that Matt had not tightened the forks into the head set properly and when I released the speed lifter to raise the handle bars the forks nearly dropped out the bottom of the frame. And this was after I was promised that the bike would be serviced as a gesture of good will due to the time the repair had taken. I certainly will not buy another bike from 50cycles thier standard of customer care is appalling nothing is ever thier fault. I asked to reject the bike when it was 6 months old Matt refused to pass on my request to Scott or Tim Sneath the owners of the business in fact it took over 15 emails before Scott did call me and promised that once the repair was completed I would have many years service fron the bike only for it to have to have a new rear hub replaced 4 weeks later. So although I have had the bike for two years it has been in 50cycles workshop for 6 months of that time. To say there is reliability problems with these bikes is an understatement and 50cycles ability to show any sign of customer care is severely lacking.

 

[Croxden]

During my research on ebikes the general consensus was Kalkoff were very good if not the best.

Testing a few at their Loughborough site I wasn't impressed. Perhaps I had been led astray by all the talking up the brand but not one of them said 'buy me'. In fact I was disappointed by the poor set-up of the bikes, I would have thought that demo bikes would be perfect, not having poor gear changes for instance.

Not that I picked a 'good 'un' until I got the Delite, but I will say I preferred the Juicy bikes over the Kalkoff, they rode better and although not for me at the time, if it was between the two the German would have lost out.

I wish you well in your struggle for a satisfactorily result.

 

[natted]

I was so very close to purchasing a Focus Aventura with the Impulse 2 mid drive - I was in a bike shop looking at the bike and then decided to sleep on it. After researching and finding these forums and the post on Endless Sphere showing the inadequate bearing, I reviewed my decision and found a different bike with Yamaha mid drive. Only time will tell if I made the right decision. Good luck to those with the Impulse 2. Hopefully a solution is found.

 

[Tomtomato]

Did they offer to replace your bike with a NEW one? If so would that have a NEW 2 year warranty? I think that's very fair offer, something a court may take into account.

Yes, after discussing/argueing for many weeks, they offered to return my bike to Kalkhoff and replace my 2015 version by a new Pro Connect 10 bike (2016), but still powered by an Impulse 2 motor.

However, I have seen no evidence that Kalkhoff have fixed the design issues of the Impulse 2 motor (bearings, gears etc), so replacing the full bike does not really resolve the issue of long term reliability, and motor is likely to fail again, within warranty (with associated inconvenience) or outside of warranty (with associated inconvenience and high cost).

I then told them to sell that new bike at a discount at one of their stores (as they are best suited to sell a bike than I am), which would have allowed them to easily give me the money due, but they didn't want to do it. I believe they just don't want to accept the bike to be rejected and have to give a partial refund, in order to avoid setting an expensive precedence...

is there that massive a margin in ebikes??

50 Cycles disclosed to me (by mistake) that they were making about 45% margin on a Pro Connect 10, sold for £2,400, so yes, margins are very high on those bikes.
The unpowered version of that bike is sold by Kalkhoff for around 600 EUR in continental Europe...

It's fine to make a high margin on products, but then maintenance and service should be of very high standards, and the bike should also be of high quality.

For the London shop, having a single mechanic once a week does not indicate a lot of investment in customer service.

I think 50 Cycles have decided that, even with poor customer satisfaction, their business will do OK anyway, so they are aiming for as much profits as possible.

 

[Tomtomato]

will not buy another bike from 50cycles thier standard of customer care is appalling nothing is ever thier fault.

Interesting story, thanks.

Yes, their standard of after sales is not that great, and they always come up with excuses (an indication of poor service, usually): people on holiday, wrong parts received, exhibition that week etc etc.

When my bike was being repaired, they created more faults (which then took many weeks to fix), the motor wiring and connectors were visible and not protected (which they never fixed), and they lost my alloy pedals. They said they were not responsible for accessories while the bike was in their care. They did post me back the pedals... 7 months later.

According to their website, they claim to sell the best quality bikes in the UK, and also have the best after sales service. See the bottom left of each page.

Trading standards did tell them to change some of the wordings on their website already in 2015, and I have got the feeling that more "recommendations" are coming...

 

[Tomwal]

During my research on ebikes the general consensus was Kalkoff were very good if not the best.

Testing a few at their Loughborough site I wasn't impressed. Perhaps I had been led astray by all the talking up the brand but not one of them said 'buy me'. In fact I was disappointed by the poor set-up of the bikes, I would have thought that demo bikes would be perfect, not having poor gear changes for instance.

Not that I picked a 'good 'un' until I got the Delite, but I will say I preferred the Juicy bikes over the Kalkoff, they rode better and although not for me at the time, if it was between the two the German would have lost out.

I wish you well in your struggle for a satisfactorily result.

I like the quality of the components and the frame etc. Also mine has belt drive which I like. The demo bike I tried was very good. I am having motor noises and the battery isn't giving the 128 mile range I had expected so the bike is back with 50cycles for them to service and check. I must emphasize that my bike is great to ride - it is powerful, comfortable and looks very nice. The other cheaper bikes I looked at didn't look as good quality but having said that think I have made a mistake and I should have bought another make. I have always wanted belt drive and that was an important factor. Now I am back to riding my GT hybrid/atb and my Brompton and am missing power assistance !

 

[grldtnr]

Unfortunate for me,but I fear I may be suffering a case of the kalkoff clack!
I bought the bike as an ex demo,so don't have the benefit of a full warranty,besides I doubt that the matter would be resolved very much to satisfaction ,having experienced 50 cycles after sales service,i am very disappointed as the bike is well Specced and comfortable to ride.
Should it suffer catastrophic failure,i am considering a Gazelle as replacement,there hangs the rub, this brand is also of the Derby cycles stable and uses the same components,and has the impulse motor.

My query is that,Gazelle are offered by several dealers in the UK,has anyone had an adverse experience with this brand?

 

[Tomtomato]

Unfortunate for me,but I fear I may be suffering a case of the kalkoff clack!
I bought the bike as an ex demo,so don't have the benefit of a full warranty,besides I doubt that the matter would be resolved very much to satisfaction ,having experienced 50 cycles after sales service

You will have the exact same consumer rights on a used bike sold by them. The bike is still supposed to be fit for purpose and of appropriate quality.

 

[nemesis]

I have finaly sold my bike at a loss to get rid of the impulse motor and the constant excuses from the bike shop,i have just had a new motor fitted (again) and a console that took six weeks to fit.
The impulse works fine when everythings ok but i think they will all break down in time due to design failures.
Never again will i buy a kalkhoff or focus and absolutely never will i buy from the dealer involved because of their attitude to the paying customer.