Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor

[Tomtomato]

they have offered to recondition motors that have suffered due to their claimed software generated problem.. for nothing, even outside of the warranty. Try getting that sort of response from a car manufacturer in similar circumstances.

Well, this is not really a goodwill gesture, particularly if it's a known manufacturing defect. It's covered by the SOGA rules (or its replacement).

Basically, anybody with a clacking issue on their motor should be able to get it fixed by the retailer for up to 6 years after the purchase date.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Well, this is not really a goodwill gesture, particularly if it's a known manufacturing defect. It's covered by the SOGA rules (or its replacement).

Basically, anybody with a clacking issue on their motor should be able to get it fixed by the retailer for up to 6 years after the purchase date.

As long as the fault is the result of an ORIGINAL manufacturing defect,that is often difficult to prove.

 

[Tomtomato]

As long as the fault is the result of an ORIGINAL manufacturing defect,that is often difficult to prove.

Oh yes, it would be so hard to prove, after the retailer has acknowledged online the fault and the ways to resolve it...

Regardless of what you say, I am now confident that, if the motor issue I originally had was to occur again, it would be remediated free of charge by the retailer for many years to come, well after the warranty period.

 

[SteveRuss]

Regardless of what you say, I am now confident that, if the motor issue I originally had was to occur again, it would be remediated free of charge by the retailer for many years to come, well after the warranty period.

That was kind of the point of what I wrote above. The fact that they have stated that they will honour motor problems that are related to the 'software issue' after the warranty period, is golden. As I said, it could be looked on as an amazing result if they are confident about their solution and are true to their word.

 

[Tomtomato]

That was kind of the point of what I wrote above.

Well, not quite the same as what I said: you inferred that they would be doing a goodwill gesture, while I am saying that they would have little choice anyway, as per the UK sales act...

Regardless, it's good that they have admitted there is indeed an issue, and that they have a fix for it. Should give a lot of confidence for people willing to buy a Kalkhoff bike.

 

[SteveRuss]

Well, not quite the same as what I said: you inferred that they would be doing a goodwill gesture, while I am saying that they would have little choice anyway, as per the UK sales act...

For what it's worth, I didn't mean to infer that I thought it was a goodwill gesture. Just a solution to a problem which seems robust and fair.

 

[tillson]

The 50 cycles 'addition' to original post, what a stupid place to put it and not copy it later in the thread....so I will repost here....


50cycles Statement (Feb 2016)

'After our annual service meeting with Derby Cycles it was pointed out to us that a simple software update will rectify the timing issues with both Pedal and Torque sensors that previously may have damaged the motor.

It has also been discovered that this error could occur by fault of the customer when either dropping the bike or having a collision that impacted the motor such as kerbing the bike with the riders full weight.?

I can't quite see how bumping up a kerb affects the software code. Does the sudden jolt of either dropping the bike or hitting the kerb cause all the 0s and 1s which make up the software to suddenly become jumbled up?

 

[SteveRuss]

I can't quite see how bumping up a kerb affects the software code. Does the sudden jolt of either dropping the bike or hitting the kerb cause all the 0s and 1s which make up the software to suddenly become jumbled up?

I suspect that they are saying that the clacking problem can also be experienced after a bit of a physical motor abuse..

 

[Jean-christophe Saville]

Hello All

I have just finished reading this gigantic thread on clanging motors because I have been riding Kalkhoff since 2013. I started getting a clanging but it turned out to be an incorrect new chain and worn rear sprocket. However I hope to share my experience so that others can decide if it's for them.

History:
1. 11/2013 Brought Kalkhoff Endeavour BS10 with Bosch motor
2. 07/2014 BS10 stolen from backyard
3. 07/2014 Brought Kalkhoff S11 Alfine with Impulse 2 motor
4. 09/2015 Replaced motor under warranty (2800 miles)
5. 11/2015 Replaced battery under warranty (3200 miles)
6. 02/2016 Replaced original chain and sprockets (3600 miles)

Commute: 10 mile round trip, through flat leafy suburbia to work and back. Every workday rain or shine.

Bike usage profile: Upon purchase, I put bike in max power mode and have never lowered it.

Battery: Max assist: 33 miles, so 3 trips to work. Warranty replaced when charge wouldn't hold over a weekend

Motor replacement: When I first road tested the S11, I knew within the first 5 minutes that I must have this bike. The power and smooth Alfine gear changes sold itself. However at the time I mentioning to the sales person there was a slight vibration in the motor. He dismissed it and so did I.

I received my new bike and noticed the same slight vibration but otherwise it was and is everything I wanted in an electric bike.

Fast forwards a little over 1 year (09/2015) and 2800 miles. The motor was loosing power and had a grinding and clunking noises. I decide I'd better get it checked out. 50Cycles immediately accepted to replace motor under warranty and lent me a loan bicycle for a week.

When I picked up the repaired bicycle, I spoke to staff and asked what had happened.
I was told that when the pedals are turned, there are 2 throw-out pegs made of brass that fly out and engage a gear to transfer the power from the crank internally to the chain which turns the rear wheel. Originally the designers of the motor had used only two throw out pegs. It was decided that this wasn't sufficient. So in my new motor they have increase the number of pegs from 2 to 4.
In my previous motor the 2 throw-out pegs had disintegrated and were grinding up the rest of the gears in the motor. This seemed to make sense to me and without opening up the old motor I could only accept this explanation.

When I did leave the shop with the new motor, two things happened that surprised me. First I must have underestimated the loss of power in the old motor because when the new motor's power came on, I almost rode into a parked car. And second, the previous mysterious slight vibration in the pedal was gone.

I, like previous comments in this forum did however find that the electrical connectors were left somewhat exposed when they replaced the motor, but I managed to re-position them myself.
Overall the replacement motor has now done almost 1000 miles and is as smooth and powerful and silent as when I left the shop. Obviously time will tell whether I have another problem.

Opinion on Kalkhoff S11 Alfine

• Beautifully crafted bicycle, still looks new after 2 years
• Absolute pleasure to ride, smooth power, lovely torque, fantastic gear changes, strong brakes
• Easy to maintain (except for motor)

Opinion on 50cycles

• Provided good sales service
• Allowed me to save by using cycle to work scheme
• Very good warranty service for 2 years

Is it value for money? £3300 / £150 (monthly travel card) = 22 months. So I consider my bike as having been paid for itself within another 3 months or on the 05/2016. However I expect at least another 2 years of use, or to reach 7000+ miles to be happy with the overall life expectancy.

Would I recommend? If, like me you know you will do plenty of commuting and can justify the cost within the 2 year warranty window, then yes I would recommend. Otherwise as with all things mechanical you take a risk that a problem will arise outside of the warranty window. And everyone will have a different risk appetite.

Finally, If I was staying in the UK and didn't already own the S11 Alfine I would probably try and get the new S11 Alfine Integrale Belt, but would try getting a few hundred off by offering cash.

 

[tillson]

I suspect that they are saying that the clacking problem can also be experienced after a bit of a physical motor abuse..

That somewhat waters down the initial admission that there is something inherently wrong with the motor design.

 

[Will Tinker]

That somewhat waters down the initial admission that there is something inherently wrong with the motor design.

My interpretation was that the software fault could cause physical damage to the motor over time (most likely that plastic cog?), but that similar damage could potentially be caused by sudden high impact.

Anyway, I'm happy 50Cycles have come back on this, and comforted that there won't be any trouble getting the motor changed.

A few little niggling problems aside, I do really like my Kalkhoff.

 

[Wicky]

Have you also had the software update carried out and if so when on the timescale?

History:

1. 11/2013 Brought Kalkhoff Endeavour BS10 with Bosch motor
2. 07/2014 BS10 stolen from backyard
3. 07/2014 Brought Kalkhoff S11 Alfine with Impulse 2 motor
4. 09/2015 Replaced motor under warranty (2800 miles)
5. 11/2015 Replaced battery under warranty (3200 miles)
6. 02/2016 Replaced original chain and sprockets (3600 miles)

 

[Jean-christophe Saville]

Have you also had the software update carried out and if so when on the timescale?

I don't know. I only found out about the update yesterday. I will need to find out if the update has been applied.

 

[reggie_electric]

I have been reading through these posts, and I'm pretty sure I have the same problem as a lot of other people. I have an Impulse II on a 2016 Agattu HS. After about 800km I started to get this clicking noise, which is rather embarrassing when passing people and making out as if I own a good piece of technology. Like others have said, I found out if I pedal backward for two or three turns, it stops for a whole, and then comes back. I bought my bike direct from Germany, which is proving to be a bit of a headache in terms of warranty (I'm nowhere near a 50 cycles store). I did think this top seller would be reliable and not have so many issues? I've contacted my original retailer and no response as yet...though it sounds like at some point I'll have to arrange to have a new motor fitted.

 

[Tomtomato]

Like others have said, I found out if I pedal backward for two or three turns, it stops for a whole, and then comes back.

Sounds like the exact same issue indeed, probably indicating that the motor is failing.

I bought my bike direct from Germany

I am not sure 50 Cycles will provide or have to provide a manufacturer warranty for bikes purchased abroad. I guess it depends if they have such agreement with Kalkhoff.

You can try to contact Kalkhoff directly, but it's unlikely they will be bothered to reply (they never replied to my inquiry).

50 Cycles may be able to get a replacement motor free of charge from Kalkhoff if they return the existing one, but may charge you for the service and for installing it.

Maybe you can give them a call and discuss. A local bike mechanic might be able to easily disconnect the existing motor (a few bolts and connectors to remove, best to take a picture) and then you can send it to 50 Cycles or your German dealer for a replacement.

Buying bikes abroad is fine if the standard common mechanical components are failing (e.g. gears). However, it starts becoming an issue if a part not available for direct purchase, such as the motor, is failing.

 

[jackie230]

I agree that the panasonic motors in the earlier kalkhoffs were very reliable but i now have the impulse 2 speed motor bought in may this year ,it now has 5000km on it that have been ridden hard with no problems or noises,does the speed and legal versions have different internals because it has been said they are the same even though there is a price difference?

hello there nemesis..
I am currently looking at the possibility of buying a focus thron speed from germany.. Should I be worried about reliability issues surroundin the motors of an impulse evo..did you buy in the UK ? Thanks in advance...

 

[nemesis]

hello there nemesis..
I am currently looking at the possibility of buying a focus thron speed from germany.. Should I be worried about reliability issues surroundin the motors of an impulse evo..did you buy in the UK ? Thanks in advance...

I bought my focus jarifa from austria and sadly the motor failed after about four months,after e-mailing the dealer he was a little vauge on how to proceed so i turned to the main uk dealer 50 cycles and they said that as long as the austrian shop was a genuine kalkhoff trader they would change the motor as long as i paid the labour for fitting.The new motor has been running fine so all is well again.
The focus bikes are superbly built and i would say the kalkhoff impulse motor in them is a very powerful mid drive that works well on and off the road.

 

[Tomtomato]

Sadly, my bike has started having assistance issues again, with the replacement motor.

I noticed a few weeks ago that I couldn't hear the motor in low assistance mode, most of the time.

However, recently, assistance was very weak, even in maximum assistance mode. Some hills I could climb easily before on maximum assistance were a struggle now. I am not getting the boost I use to get when changing assistance modes.

Assistance seems to be cutting off much earlier than the previous 17mph limit.

I did get some loud clacking noise for a short duration while going up a hill a couple of weeks ago, but then it stopped.

Display seems to be indicating the correct speed (which would exclude a fault on the computer itself, or speed sensor/wheel magnet), and battery is reporting a full capacity (on display and battery itself). Battery has only been charged a few times anyway, so I am assuming the motor unit is failing again.

I guess it could be one of the built-in torque or cadence sensor.

 

[reggie_electric]

I had the motor on my 6 month Kalkhoff Agattu replaced under warranty. Just got it back, the new motor is working fine but I'll keep an eye on it. It's slightly taken the shine off worry-free 'motoring'. The motor was replaced under warranty, but with postage to the nearest UK dealer and labour it ended up costing me £130, so I need to do a lot of pedalling to recoup the cost.

 

[Will Tinker]

I had the motor on my 6 month Kalkhoff Agattu replaced under warranty. Just got it back, the new motor is working fine but I'll keep an eye on it. It's slightly taken the shine off worry-free 'motoring'. The motor was replaced under warranty, but with postage to the nearest UK dealer and labour it ended up costing me £130, so I need to do a lot of pedalling to recoup the cost.

Sounds odd that you had to pay that. If the error was a fault under warranty, surely any cost of repairs should fall under the manufacturer/retailer and not yourself?

Did you buy from 50cycles?