Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor

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tillson

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The issue is the custom crank driven motors on those bikes, so no option to replace by other models, no upgrades etc. All mechanical components are standards (gears etc) and can be replaced/upgraded, but the motor cannot.
No quite true. Bosch, Panasonic and Impulse motors can't be interchanged, but I believe that the frame bolt mounting patterns for each type has not changed as the motors evolve. That's certainly true for Panasonic from 2008 onwards. Therefore, IF there is a problem with the Impulse 2, which is fixed in later versions, it should be possible to to bolt the newer motor onto the frame.
 
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Tomtomato

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it should be possible to to bolt the newer motor onto the frame.
Apart from the fact that it is not just about bolting a new motor to the frame, but also all the electronic, display and battery, which are likely not be compatible with a different motor...
 

tillson

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Apart from the fact that it is not just about bolting a new motor to the frame, but also all the electronic, display and battery, which are likely not be compatible with a different motor...
Again, not quite true. Some of the Panasonic motors have common controllers and batteries. For example, when I swapped the 2008 Panasonic motor fitted to my bike for the 2011 version, I was able to use the same handlebar controller and battery. I believe the Panasonic S class motors do require a different handlebar controller, but the standard motors seem to be interchangeable.

I'm not sure about the Bosch or Impulse, but I'd be surprised if you can't use the same battery with different Mks of the same motor brand. The handlebar controller is an easy swap, so not a big deal if that isn't compatible with newer Mks of motor.
 
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Tomtomato

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Anyway, you are speculating and this thread is about the Impulse 2 motor. You have no evidences that it could be replaced by an Evo (newer version), and it's not possible to buy the motor separately from Kalkhoff anyway, so it was kind of the point.
 

tillson

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Anyway, you are speculating and this thread is about the Impulse 2 motor. You have no evidences that it could be replaced by an Evo (newer version), and it's not possible to buy the motor separately from Kalkhoff anyway, so it was kind of the point.
It was actually your speculation in post #115 regarding Impulse crank motors and their inability to be changed for a newer model that has lead us to this point.

In that post, you said;

The issue is the custom crank driven motors on those bikes, so no option to replace by other models, no upgrades etc. All mechanical components are standards (gears etc) and can be replaced/upgraded, but the motor cannot
"No option to replace with other models, no upgrades, motor can't be replaced or upgraded." Do you know this to be fact, or is this the type of speculation that you are suggesting I have engaged in? Ironically, it could be you who is speculating and this is the reason why;

If the manufacturer changed the motor bolt pattern with each generation of motor, it would have a knock-on effect with frame design and production. The company manufacturing the frame would have to re-tool for each motor type, which is expensive and it would make that motor manufacturer unpopular with their customers, the bike builders. Granted, Kalkhoff and the Impulse motor manufacturers are the same, but the principle still applies. This type of expense would become unnecessary if the motor mounting patterns were maintained. Add to this the fact that Panasonic maintained the same mounting features on their motors for precisely this reason. I know this because I have experience of changing various Mks of Panasonic motor.

Now I know that we are discussing Impulse motors, that much had not escaped escaped me, but my reasoning as to why I believe the Impulse motors will be interchangeable is based on the above facts. Whereas you appear to be throwing poorly thought out ideas around and trying to back out of avenues of discussion when this is highlighted to you.

IF the Impulse motors are interchangeable, I never have said that they are, but the likelihood is that they will be for the reasons I have already said, then this opens up an avenue for Impulse 2 motor owners to upgrade to the latest version through the warranty. A cash adjustment may / may-not be required, but it's an avenue for discussion & resolution. This is important and highly relevant to what is being talked about IF there is an inherent design flaw with the Impulse 2, because it will surely have been addressed in the next model.
 
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oriteroom

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...... C
IF the Impulse motors are interchangeable, I never have said that they are, but the likelihood is that they will be for the reasons I have already said, then this opens up an avenue for Impulse 2 motor owners to upgrade to the latest version through the warranty. A cash adjustment may / may-not be required, but it's an avenue for discussion & resolution. This is important and highly relevant to what is being talked about IF there is an inherent design flaw with the Impulse 2, because it will surely have been addressed in the next model.
Thanks Tillson, eventually at least a potential beam of light at the end of what seems a long dark tunnel. Hope your IFs above re motors and controllers go in a favourable direction. Followed your experiences since 2008, which is when we purchased the first two proConnects. Shared experience is always valuable, and i have valued your and Flecc's advice amongst others over the seven years.
 
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flecc

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Since the Impulse changes have not always been seasonal I'm quite sure the frame mountings for the units will have been the same throughout all three evolutions. Another good reason for that to be true is the cost of changing the crankcase castings as well as retooling for frame changes.

That's probably why Panasonic haven't changed their three point mounting for at least the last 8 years, and since the previous series unit appears to have the same three point positions, possibly 15 years. As for the handlebar controller compatibility, I know of only one Panasonic change of the 24/26 volt series over the 15 years, from the old series manual switching to the new series electronic one in 2007.
.
 

oriteroom

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Below is a copy of post from Reseg on another Lowranger thread .... Says it all for me...the evidence is there for all to see....
Reseg said......

I have the Focus Aventura Impulse S10, with the Impulse 2 motor (Kalkhoff with a different badge). It's now waiting on its 3rd motor, with <3k miles and being 10 months old. After the 2nd one failed, the same way as the 1st (sudden grinding, locking up, then free spinning motor sounds with no assist) I took it apart. There's a plastic-ish gear in it that's ripped up. I'm guessing this is the trick they found to a quieter motor with the Impulse 2 release. Hope the picture link works, otherwise check out post#45 on lowranger's thread....

Kalkhoff Pro Connect Impulse 10 2015 Review
Discussion in 'iReviews - Electric Bikes' started by lowranger, Dec 8, 2014.


http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/attachments/focus-gear-jpg.12951/

#45Reseg, Dec 25, 2015
 

flecc

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There's a plastic-ish gear in it that's ripped up. I'm guessing this is the trick they found to a quieter motor with the Impulse 2 release.
Panasonic did the same when changing from the series 1 to series 2 motor, but they've had no trouble whatsoever with their nylon gear.

It's obviously the greater power and torque of the Impulse unit that's to blame. They may have to learn from Heinzmann, their lower power motors have a nylon gear, the higher power internally geared motors a steel gear.
.
 

Tomtomato

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It was actually your speculation in post #115 regarding Impulse crank motors and their inability to be changed for a newer model that has lead us to this point.
Completely pointless argument, as you can't buy the motors separately anyway. Also, you have no evidence that the electronics are the same, speed sensors, shift sensors etc etc.
Therefore, not really a solution to the issues with Impulse 2 motors, is it? And this thread is about Impulse 2 motor issues...

If it was a simple swap AND impulse 2 motors had a design flaw, then I guess people would get Evo replacement motors.

My point was that generic hub motors don't have the same issue as proprietary ones, in term of finding replacement or upgrading parts later on...
 
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Tomtomato

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I'm guessing this is the trick they found to a quieter motor with the Impulse 2 release.
From what I have read, quite a few high torque motors have high strength plastic parts anyway, so I am not sure this is the answer to all failures.
 

tillson

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Completely pointless argument, as you can't buy the motors separately anyway.
I have never suggested that you can buy an Impulse motor as a seperate item. Where did that come from?

I have been very careful to use the word IF when talking about whether it is possible to fit newer evolutions of the Impulse motor to an older frame. I have never said that it is possible, just that it is highly likely to be possible and qualified that with a reason why.


Also, you have no evidence that the electronics are the same, speed sensors, shift sensors etc etc.
Wrong again I'm afraid. These items are not hugely expensive and can be purchased, so not an issue.

therefore, not really a solution to the issues with Impulse 2 motors, is it? And this thread is about Impulse 2 motor issues...

If it was a simple swap AND impulse 2 motors had a design flaw, then I guess people would get Evo replacement motors.
So, this just leaves the motor bolt pattern, which is highly likely to be the same for the reasons I and others have already stated, so perhaps the Evo motor is a possible solution and one which those affected by a series of Impulse 2 motor failures could explore. I am simply suggesting ideas.

Oh, and one more thing. In an earlier post, you stated that


Currently, Bosch or Kalkhoff motors are not available as spare parts to the general public, so replacement cost is unknown.
Wrong yet again. I'm sorry, but you can buy Bosch motors along with Panasonic 24 Volt, Panasonic 36 Volt and Yamaha motors, but as you say, no Impulse, at least not yet.

I think you had better stop posting before your humiliation is total and complete.
 
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Kudoscycles

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Everybody who has the impulse 2 problems....as a completely impartial outsider looking in.
It appears that you are starting to get annoyed with each other in seeking solutions....from my viewpoint why are you all seeking alternative solutions?
Surely the Impulse motor does your job fine when it is working ok but there is a quality issue after time. Kalkhoff is a big enough company with a very respected quality standard who should have the r&d to sort out the problem...with so many of you with the same problem why don't you e-mail as a group direct to Kalkhoff asking for their solution,copying in the retailer at the same time.
If replacement of the original motor is not solving the problem,surely it is up to Kalkhoff to specify an alternative solution not the customers.
KudosDave
 

nemesis

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Kalkhoff will know from the motors sent back to them what is failing and there should be a recall,if you e-mail kalkhoff direct they will not answer unless you are a certified dealer and even they have problems getting answers from them.
 

tillson

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What you are saying kudoscycles is what I have been getting at. If there is a significant problem with the Impulse 2 motor, Kalkhoff will know about it. If they are unable to fix the issue in the Impulse 2, they surely will have in the motor version which follows it. My point has been that owners should consider asking for the newer motor as a solution if, like some, they are waiting for their third motor. Continually replacing one flawed motor with another until the warranty runs out is not a solution I'd be happy with.

You make a good point regarding a group letter from those affected to Kalkhoff.
 
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Roger R

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I think emailing as a group is a great idea. I have posted my problems in this forum and shared YouTube videos. These are what convinced 50cycles to replace my motor after 6 months and a 1000 miles. Actually the early issues arise within a month. My new motor has hardly done any mileage due to the weather but I am unsure about the future. If anyone is willing to pull all this together and contract Kalkhoff I'm very happy to be included plus my video evidence -
 
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Croxden

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