I don't think anyone will shoot you down. You have read the information, digested it and formed your own opinion. No one can argue with that.
Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor
- Thread starter Tomtomato
- Start date
- Status
In spring this year i was looking for a new bike with the impulse 2 motor and decided on the mtb style focus jarifa because i wanted the battery on the downtube and the bike was for road use only so slick tyres would be fitted.Prices were high in the uk for the speed model so i started looking to a european dealer and bought from austria at a fairly big saving.Fast forward five months and the motor went bang and now i was worried because the german dealer wasn`t being very helpful with fixing it.I gave 50c a call to see if they could help and they said ok as long as i had bought it from a factory supplied seller and that i would have to pay any labour charges for fitting the new motor.I drove it down there and it was sent back working perfect in fact it was better than the original motor because the software was slightly updated.
I also own a bosch powered bike bought from germany that was throwing up a code that i thought could be a problem and after phoning a lot of the dealers in the uk none of them wanted to know or would give any advice because it was bosch.The bike is now ok because i found out online it was a easy fix,i won`t be buying from europe again and have a new 16 model integrale evo from 50c,the dealers in this country need to learn that it is swings and roundabouts if customers buy from europe.
I also own a bosch powered bike bought from germany that was throwing up a code that i thought could be a problem and after phoning a lot of the dealers in the uk none of them wanted to know or would give any advice because it was bosch.The bike is now ok because i found out online it was a easy fix,i won`t be buying from europe again and have a new 16 model integrale evo from 50c,the dealers in this country need to learn that it is swings and roundabouts if customers buy from europe.
Last edited:
Is that a fact? I guess not many people have an impulse 2 motor out of warranty anyway, given the time it was released and the 2 year warranty.
I am pretty sure they would still have to replace a motor after 2 years, particularly if the bike has done an average mileage (e.g. not 50 miles per day). Have you heard otherwise?
Elsie, 50cycles have been around a long time and have sold a very large number of Kalkhoff products over the years. I have experienced their customer service and their commitment to put things right when problems occur. That experience means I would happily give them my custom again in the future if the right bike were to catch my eye.
That is in no way meant to detract from the customer support provided by many other EAPC sellers, some of whom are members of this forum and are highly regarded.
Tom
Thank you all for the great replies, it is so easy to install doubt and it could ruin what should be a fun experience, buying a great item.
I am sure many folk really want to help and feel they are helping by telling you their problems. We can all only speak from experience and then decide for ourselves.
An old saying that is particularly apt " only the noisy wheel gets oiled"
We are all guilty of not giving praise where it is due but are often fast to moan.
Having said that it is clear there are folk out there that have had issues and I accept that.
Elsie
I am sure many folk really want to help and feel they are helping by telling you their problems. We can all only speak from experience and then decide for ourselves.
An old saying that is particularly apt " only the noisy wheel gets oiled"
We are all guilty of not giving praise where it is due but are often fast to moan.
Having said that it is clear there are folk out there that have had issues and I accept that.
Elsie
As an Engineer i get called to repair printing machines all over the Uk, some of these are 20 years old, i can't believe they are still in full production they look prehistoric!! in comparison to the new ones i work on, my point is, technology progresses at a rapid rate, some things innovators try are successful, other things disastrous, without manufacturers developing new ideas we would all be riding "Penny Farthings".
I really enjoy my Scott esub, it may fail me especially with the new Bosch motor,or it may not, i could have stuck with my home made conversion and saved my money, i didn't, i am glad i didn't. my glass is always half full. if you want it, can afford it, just buy it.
I really enjoy my Scott esub, it may fail me especially with the new Bosch motor,or it may not, i could have stuck with my home made conversion and saved my money, i didn't, i am glad i didn't. my glass is always half full. if you want it, can afford it, just buy it.
That is certainly what users like oriteroom are concerned about. He has two, and if you read his posts he is trying to put some milage on the other one in case he does get stuck. Now I’m glad you’re pretty sure they would replace a motor out of warranty, but I wonder what you base your confidence on? In my experience of them, and the experience of others posting here in the last few years they are very good at honouring the warranty until it’s expired but that’s it. Which is fair enough as they do offer a two year warranty and most other dealers only give buyers a one year warranty.
Of course there is a remedy under the SOGA and its successor. But whether you would have to threaten to go to law, as I had to with Samsung once when one of its expensive piles of junk failed constantly, and finally died after the warranty had expired. Or whether they would just keep on fitting new motors with a happy smile I don’t know. Neither of course do you.
As a matter of interest I counted up the number of reports of motor failures on this and the other smaller thread here and it came to six. Plus a couple of people reporting clacking noises which are it seems a precursor to the failure. Now bearing in mind the number of people with the Impulse II - thank's for that flecc, auto pilot - who are members here I would guess that is a fairly high percentage of failures with this generation of motor.
Hopefully not, as they would want to keep a good reputation, but if you have to, it's a 10 min job to raise a small claim/moneyclaim anyway, so does not make me extremely worried (no need for lawyers or long, expensive procedures).
If my bike suffers another motor failure within the next 18 months, I would probably return it for a refund (as it would be indeed a recurrent manufacturing fault given the low mileage I am doing). If the bike suffers another motor failure after say 30 months, then I am confident I would get it repaired for free (as long as it's well maintained and reasonable mileage).
Didn't you say before that, since we didn't know the number of Impulse 2 motors sold, any stats would be meaningless? But now, based on 6 people having issues reported on this forum, you estimate that it's a "fairly high percentage of return"?? I have looked at other forums abroad, and I haven't seen so many people complaining about impulse 2 motors.
EXACTLY John. You've counted the numbers, and issues of failures/concerns of 8 for the Impulse 2 motor. Your last sentence says it all. I feel sure that forum members with faultless Imp2 motors would post their delight! Thus, the statistics do not look great. Our Tasman hasn't played up yet, BUT I just feel it's a potential "Sword of Damocles" hanging over our heads. Thus, I don't post delight, just concern for the future.
As I said, riding along listening for clacking noises detracts from the pleasure. HAVING to ride one bike because you need to get the milage up to put it to the test, SHOULDN'T be necessary. My concerns might evaporate if ......
A). Kalkhoff acknowledge a problem and correct it (which implicitly might be so given the three incarnations of the motor). Did Panasonic go through the same teething problems before producing a motor that has given us a combined faultless 32k miles on three bikes.
B). 50Cycles do replace motors free of charge when out of warranty. I'm not holding my breath', 13 months to go and counting...
Two years, £1800 for a bike that on our general usage normally would have covered 1800 to 2000 miles, IS NOT a sound investment. Would I pay for a new motor Imp2 motor (not cheap) post warranty, A CATAGORIC NO. I just take my losses, and take IT down the rubbish tip, and look for something else. By the same calculation, my wife's old Panasonic bike has delivered 12,000+ miles for the same price. Would I replace the Panasonic motor on that, should it fail? You bet I would.
We wait to hear reports on the performance of replaced motors. If they fail, then I get really concerned.
Last edited:
Surely, this forum cannot have attracted a highly selective membership of people who have imp2 motor problems. Perhaps I should change forums
, or never joined this one 7 years ago, then as they say "ignorance would be bliss". I'm very pleased to be here. Over those years, the advice i've had from all, esp flecc, has been great. For example, I'd never had attempted things like changing a rear sprocket on a Nexus hub, tricky, (to get the gearing right for our style of riding) without the sound experience and advice ftom forum members.Well, if you think 6 people reporting issues on a forum is an indication of a large scale defect, then you follow the same flawed logic as Mr Cade (who likes to contradict himself).
And by the way, as I started this thread, my motor didn't fail but was just doing some intermittent noise. May not have been an issue for someone else.
But yes, people tend to complain a lot more online than the opposite (a very well known fact about internet behaviour, or just human behaviour). People don't tend to seek advice when everything is working fine, or go through the process of registering and posting, to say "my bike is fine BTW".
However, of course this forum provides a lot of value and advice.
I don't see why Kalkhoff releasing new versions of its motor is an implicit indication of flaws. It's called continuous improvements. Otherwise, many companies releasing new products every year would have flawed products?
I checked other forums abroad, and didn't see a surge of people reporting issues with Impulse 2 motors, despite being much larger markets.
Regarding your previous post: as previously mentioned, you have some consumer rights under European and UK laws, regardless of the warranty period. Read what has been posted on this thread.
You wouldn't have to pay for replacing a motor post-warranty, if you had only done a low mileage, during the life expectancy of your bike, and kept the bike well maintained. Given the cost and components of those discussed, it think life expectancy would be at least 4-5 years.
Last edited:
You do seem to have an exaggerated faith in the law. Getting the judgement can be the easy part but then you have to enforce the judgement. All a lot of hassle when all you wanted was a bike which would do what you had paid for, and keep on doing it for a few years, hopefully reliably. As to just taking it back and getting your money back after a year and a half of use… Well good luck with that.
As both myself and oriteroom pointed out, the number of reported failures on this site out of the number of owners who are members here must indicate a wider problem. That is surely obvious. After all these are long standing members and in one case friends of members. They didn’t join the forum to complain about this model of bike. No flawed logic there Tomato that I can see. Unless you don’t understand the concept of extrapolation.
So I wouldn’t want to take the risk of buying one of these unless I had been assured that the issue - and there is an issue - had been fixed. But all we got out of the dealer were bromides and spin. We don’t even know if the new Evo motor is likely to have the same problem. Mr Tomato may have a touching faith in companies and their capacity to improve their products. But I have lived a long time on this planet and I’m afraid I don’t.
I for one don’t want to have to take a bike back to a dealer which for me would be a three hundred mile round trip, and then go and pick it up again. Let alone have to stand on my rights under the law to continue being able to ride the thing. I don’t need the grief and aggravation.
Last edited:
Agreed, but we are talking about a leading retailer in the UK, with many physical shops, so less worrying than purchasing abroad or online (good luck with people doing both).
Yes, it's a hassle to get a motor replaced (even if under warranty): when mine was replaced, it took in total 3 visits to the nearby shop to put everything right, other issues were introduced and also some accessories were lost and never replaced. Bike was out of action for 2 weeks, but arguably, it was a particularly bad timing for them in term of staff.
I didn't like the official position about having no liability for accessories etc, while the bike is with them.
As far as after sale service goes, I was not impressed and had to escalate (which worked). I think 50 Cycles failed to understand that they are selling premium products, and therefore people also expect good after sale support.
The bike only had about 900 miles, so if the issue develops again in the short term, then I won't go through the hassle again, and I am pretty confident I would get a replacement bike or refund. I would however much prefer to have the one I have working reliably (as I like the bike). I shall see if the issue was a one-off/bad luck or not. Not point extrapolating.
sorry if going off topic, I feel there is a wider issue concerning all sellers and manufacturers, not just 50C and K. Problems with maintenance aside, sometime it happens that as an early adopter, you are unlucky with something like a new motor. If the revised motor can be fitted to the old bike or a new less aggressive software update is all it takes, then that's easy. But if there is no simple fix, I want to know what you think should be the right approach for supplier/manufacturer to solve this problem? give to the customer a 5000 miles guarantee to the new motor? replace the bike with a new / up to date demo bike? or something else?
We are indeed early adopters, paying the high price for what will be very cheap and more mainstream in the next few years.
The issue is the custom crank driven motors on those bikes, so no option to replace by other models, no upgrades etc. All mechanical components are standards (gears etc) and can be replaced/upgraded, but the motor cannot.
I think a guarantee for 5,000 miles on the motor for a bike costing £2,000 or £3,000 would be a good idea, and a reasonable pre-defined price for a replacement after that (e.g. £200 with labour). Currently, Bosch or Kalkhoff motors are not available as spare parts to the general public, so replacement cost is unknown.
The issue is the custom crank driven motors on those bikes, so no option to replace by other models, no upgrades etc. All mechanical components are standards (gears etc) and can be replaced/upgraded, but the motor cannot.
I think a guarantee for 5,000 miles on the motor for a bike costing £2,000 or £3,000 would be a good idea, and a reasonable pre-defined price for a replacement after that (e.g. £200 with labour). Currently, Bosch or Kalkhoff motors are not available as spare parts to the general public, so replacement cost is unknown.
If something isn't fit for purpose a full refund is in order.
I had no problems when the Grace MX was playing silly devils, that's when I ordered the R&M Delite. Same dealer, same importer, do the right thing with your customer and they will stay loyal.
I had no problems when the Grace MX was playing silly devils, that's when I ordered the R&M Delite. Same dealer, same importer, do the right thing with your customer and they will stay loyal.
I think just the legal requirement if the motor is replaced, that is the original warranty just continues to duration. After all, the original warranty was what the customer expected when buying in the first instance, why should they expect anything different, less or substantially more? Of course a good supplier might recompense for any time the bike is out of action by either warranty extension to cover that or some other means.
.
Exactly the reason, John, why as I said in a post somewhere ...
When, as we so often do, turn heads with the older Panasonic models and start chatting with folks with genuine interest in an e-bike, I simply will NOT RECOMMEND that they pursue an Impulse motor bike until reliability can be adequately demonstrated. That is quite unlike the past where I have unequivocally enthused and recommended Kalkhoffs with Panasonic motors. My advice, try and find a good, low mileage, little used, well cared for, older Kalkhoff with a Panasonic motor.
Tomtomato, I remember reading your post about the motor replacement, which was troublesome with issues concerning wiring etc.? Re your latest post, i wish I had your tolerance of that replacement experience, and your faith in getting your money back, particularly if you go out if warranty. I wish you good luck with your replacement motor, PLEASE keep posting progress as time goes by. It would be very reassuring should you report no problems with a motor having covered 10,000 miles. The worst outcome for me is that your new motor suffers the same fate as the previous one. Then my faith in kalkhoff bikes will have evaporated, 'lightening striking twice and all that'.
Yes indeed, wiring was quite exposed after they changed the motor, and they didn't remediate it after 3 visits, so I did apply myself some self-amalgamated tape on the various connectors, to seal them properly. Not a big deal, as it's something I was able to do myself, properly.
I like the bike, and there are not that many alternatives on the market anyway, fitting my requirements and budget. Also, I am not too far from the shop, and does prefer having access to a shop if necessary. Buying from a leading retailer is also reassuring, as they are likely to stay in business.
I will report further, although I am only using the bike for leisure, during week-ends, and therefore won't do more than 2,000 or 3,000 miles per year at most (and usually when it's dry only). Therefore, I am probably not the best example of keen usage to determine the reliability of a bike.
Last edited:
Your usage matches almost EXACTLY ours, even down to the dry use and the same sort of mileage, about 2000 miles a year on each bike. We are allowed to get wet, but not the bikes, which is one reason our older bikes still turn heads. The paint job being the other!. However, as I say, my wife has a reluctance to use the Tasman until she has to, other than for proving the absence of a motor problem during warranty. Thus, your continuing use will either act to reassure us, or not, that we don't need to worry. Look forward to your ongoing reports.....
Just seen your edit to your last post as i was posting so I'll add this...... You are also very fortunate to be close to a 50cycles shop. I have a long tiresome trip to either Bristol or Shoreham to get anything done. EVEN, a needed reprogramme of the computer will require a 150 mile round trip sometime, just to do something that should have been covered at the factory or in pre-delivery checks. At present just living with it but before warranty expiry will want to do it. The software thinks it has has the larger 28" wheels, instead on the 26" wheels that are fitted to my wife's version. Thus, her speed and miles are overestimated by something approaching 10% (can't remember the actual figure and easy to calculate if I wanted to based on wheel circumference) which means the motor cuts out nearly 10% lower than on the 28". It's that lack of attention to detail/quality control that doesn't impress compared with earlier experience.
Last edited:
- Status
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
