Clacking noise - Kalkhoff Impulse 2 motor

[lordvincent]

I have an impulse 1 which has had a 'clack' for quite a while now. I have thought it was various things, but I still don't know what it is or exactly where it's coming from. It's not like the syndrome described in this thread - mine is a single loud cracking/clack sound when significant pressure is applied to the pedals, usually when in too high a gear. It has been there for about a year and is more of a slight annoyance than anything else.

It's fair to say that I am overall very pleased with the bike and the service it has given, but I would not 'upgrade' to an impulse 2 or Evo, the latter at least until there is a couple of years of delighted reports from users.

 

[nemesis]

What i think happened is that the panasonic motors were getting expensive so kalkhoff decided to design and build their own impulse motor chasing profit,i have owned the panasonic motor in the pro connect S 2011 and then a 2012 model and they both covered a lot of miles with no breakdowns mechanicaly.I realy regret selling the last one but things move on and i was worried about spares back up and warranty.Now i have the impulse 2 motor and yes mine has had to be replaced,if we could have an explanation from a kalkhoff dealer if the 2016 evo motor is a more robust design with increased reliability that would be helpful.

 

[tillson]

What i think happened is that the panasonic motors were getting expensive so kalkhoff decided to design and build their own impulse motor chasing profit,i have owned the panasonic motor in the pro connect S 2011 and then a 2012 model and they both covered a lot of miles with no breakdowns mechanicaly.I realy regret selling the last one but things move on and i was worried about spares back up and warranty.Now i have the impulse 2 motor and yes mine has had to be replaced,if we could have an explanation from a kalkhoff dealer if the 2016 evo motor is a more robust design with increased reliability that would be helpful.

I think this Impulse motor can trace its roots back to Daum a German bike / motor manufacturer. I think the company which owns Kalkhoff, probably Derby Cycles, bought the Daum brand, so I suppose it made sense to use / develop that existing motor.

It is a shame that the introduction of Bosch and Impulse (nee Daum) motors have more or less singled the end of the Panasonic motor for the UK market. Panasonic posses many years of experience and have gone through the phase of making a pig of a motor. I think all that the learnt went into the motors they produced from 2008 -2012, and they were good.

I'm not worried about spares or backup. Motors are relatively easy to come by and batteries, chain sprockets and motor sprockets are very easy to obtain. I know this won't always be the case, so I'm almost tempted to buy a new motor to keep in stock because I can't see myself being happy with a new bike if this one stops working.

 

[git-r]

I've posted on the 50 cycles discount thread a few questions about this issue so hope Tim will give us some answers.

 

[Nealh]

I think I 've mentioned it previously the clacking noise is made by Geese .

 

[oriteroom]

I've posted on the 50 cycles discount thread a few questions about this issue so hope Tim will give us some answers.

I have put my four penneth in a reply on that thread. Similar experience as Tillson, would echo everything he has said, and will consider moving on a Tasman bought this year.... she won't get off the old Pansonic ProConnect from 2008, now at 12,000 practically fautless miles.

 

[SteveRuss]

Still no clacking or weird noises on mine after well over 2000miles

 

[Tomtomato]

These customers need to be looking towards the european consumer guarantee. This gives provision for customers to claim against manufacturers or retailers after the stated warranty runs out.

I believe the SOGA in the UK is actually more protecting than the European rule, against manufacturing defects after the initial warranty period.

Yes, Apple extended 2 warranty is just useless protection (to gullible customers who believe Apple knows best), and has been sued for this in several countries.

 

[Tomtomato]

50 cycles are reporting that only 150 motors have been replaced out of 15,000 bikes sold by them in the UK (all types of motors included), so that's only a 1% failure rate (and not just for Impulse 2).

My bike has been doing fine since the last motor replacement, and has been very quiet. Hopefully, based on the 50 Cycles stats, the issue won't happen again.

However, if the issue was developing again within the first 2 years (and therefore the 50 Cycles stats likely to be inaccurate), then I would consider the SOGA rules, given the price of the bike and availability/cost of spare motors:

"If you are outside the 30-day right to reject, you have to give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace any goods or digital content which are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described.

If the attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product."

 

[git-r]

Still no clacking or weird noises on mine after well over 2000miles

This is the first positive post I've read about this - thank you and pleased you haven't had to go through the hassle every other owner on this forum has!

I'm wondering if maybe it's something other than the motor is causing the noise?

 

[JohnCade]

50 cycles are reporting that only 150 motors have been replaced out of 15,000 bikes sold by them in the UK (all types of motors included), so that's only a 1% failure rate (and not just for Impulse 2).

My bike has been doing fine since the last motor replacement, and has been very quiet. Hopefully, based on the 50 Cycles stats, the issue won't happen again.

However, if the issue was developing again within the first 2 years (and therefore the 50 Cycles stats likely to be inaccurate), then I would consider the SOGA rules, given the price of the bike and availability/cost of spare motors:

"If you are outside the 30-day right to reject, you have to give the retailer one opportunity to repair or replace any goods or digital content which are of unsatisfactory quality, unfit for purpose or not as described.

If the attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product."

But he hasn’t said how many Impulse 11 units have failed in the fairly short time that they’ve been used. His figure takes in the Panasonic and Impulse 1 which there are few reports of problems with.

 

[nightrider]

But he hasn’t said how many Impulse 11 units have failed in the fairly short time that they’ve been used. His figure takes in the Panasonic and Impulse 1 which there are few reports of problems with.

50 cycles must think we are stitched up the back, they know fine its the impulse 11 models we want to know about.

 

[tillson]

But he hasn’t said how many Impulse 11 units have failed in the fairly short time that they’ve been used. His figure takes in the Panasonic and Impulse 1 which there are few reports of problems with.

A more useful statistic would be the percentage of Impulse 11 motors that have achieved > 3000 trouble free miles. A difficult, if not impossible figure to collate, but there does seem to be an issue with this motor when in high mileage use, such as commuting on a regular basis.

 

[Tomtomato]

A more useful statistic would be the percentage of Impulse 11 motors that have achieved > 3000 trouble free miles.

We will never get that number. However, I still believe it's not a widespread issue, as a lot more people would complain about it if it was (in the UK but also elsewhere), and also a large portion of those bikes must have been sold recently (business growing), and therefore with an impulse 2 motor.

there does seem to be an issue with this motor when in high mileage use, such as commuting on a regular basis.

I think you are speculating. My motor failed when it had about 900 miles, and I am not sure other people posting issues here had a high mileage either.

It could just be that some are failing due to manufacturing defects, specific series made etc. I assume that, out of 15,000 bikes sold, quite a few would do a high mileage, but the advertised failure rate is still fairly low (1%).

The only meaningful stat I care about is whether my bike motor will fail again within the next 18 months. If it does, then it's not a one-off glitch/occurrence, and I would take the appropriate measures (e.g. reject the bike and buy something else).

 

[anotherkiwi]

I don't think that a "only" 1% motor failure rate is very good at all. Imagine if car makers had the same rate of failure! A more acceptable rate, from a businessmans point of view would be 1 in 10,000 or 0.01%.

From my point of view the Impulse factory quality control isn't up to scratch. The gears that are failing are working in 99% of motors I feel that is an assembly issue or quality control letting through sub standard components instead of chucking them in the rejected parts bin.

 

[tillson]

It could just be that some are failing due to manufacturing defects, specific series made etc. I assume that, out of 15,000 bikes sold, quite a few would do a high mileage, but the advertised failure rate is still fairly low (1%).

The only meaningful stat I care about is whether my bike motor will fail again within the next 18 months. If it does, then it's not a one-off glitch/occurrence, and I would take the appropriate measures (e.g. reject the bike and buy something else).

I don't know where the 1% of 15000 bikes figure came from. I don't doubt it, but I don't know the source.

Is that 15000 Impulse 11 motors or just 15000 Kalkhoff bikes with either a Bosch, Panasonic or Impulse motor? If it takes in all motor variants, the actual number of failures attributed to the Impulse 11 is unknown. It's not really possible to deduce anything without more detail.

 

[JohnCade]

I can’t believe they’ve sold 15000 Impulse 11 bikes. That must be the total Kalkhoffs sold since they became the dealer for the brand.

The statistics he trotted out sounded a little like Dave’s for money spent on flood defences.

 

[tillson]

I can’t believe they’ve sold 15000 Impulse 11 bikes. That must be the total Kalkhoffs sold since they became the dealer for the brand.

The statistics he trotted out sounded a little like Dave’s for money spent on flood defences.

If the 15000 units figure includes all motor variants, which will take in the ultra reliable Panasonic motor, the number of failures attributable to the Impulse 11 motor, as a percentage of bike sold with that motor fitted will be higher than 1%.

 

[flecc]

I can’t believe they’ve sold 15000 Impulse 11 bikes. That must be the total Kalkhoffs sold since they became the dealer for the brand.

You're right John, this is what Aftersales Kalkhoff UK posted:

"Of course we care we have been in business since 2003 and was the founder of modern electric bikes with crank drives in the UK. We now have over 20000 customers in the UK all of which are kept happily on the road without fail.

You have a very unusual case here as we have 15000 Kalkhoff customers and in that time have replaced under 150 motors within a warranty period."

So the 15,000 is the total number of all Kalkhoff pedelecs that they've sold between October 2007 and today.

The other 5000 will be the eZee, Sparta, Japanese Panasonic, Izip, Honda and other e-bike makes they've represented over time.

Their claim that they introduced modern crank drives to the UK is based on their introduction of the Panasonic Will folder and Honda Step-Combo early in the last decade, but that is wrong. They were beaten to it by Yamaha with the modern and excellent PAS in 1999 and matched by Giant with the Panasonic powered Lafree Lite in 2001.
.

 

[lordvincent]

You're right John, this is what Aftersales Kalkhoff UK posted:

"Of course we care we have been in business since 2003 and was the founder of modern electric bikes with crank drives in the UK. We now have over 20000 customers in the UK all of which are kept happily on the road without fail.

You have a very unusual case here as we have 15000 Kalkhoff customers and in that time have replaced under 150 motors within a warranty period."

So the 15,000 is the total number of all Kalkhoff pedelecs that they've sold between October 2007 and today.

The other 5000 will be the eZee, Sparta, Japanese Panasonic, Izip, Honda and other e-bike makes they've represented over time.

Their claim that they introduced modern crank drives to the UK is based on their introduction of the Panasonic Will folder and Honda Step-Combo early in the last decade, but that is wrong. They were beaten to it by Yamaha with the modern and excellent PAS in 1999 and matched by Giant with the Panasonic powered Lafree Lite in 2001.
.

Their statement does not say how many motors have been replaced outside of the warranty period and how many motor problems or failures they know about but have not replaced inside or outside of warranty.

Also when they say that their 20000 customers are kept 'happily on the road without fail', exactly what does this mean, especially when it comes to motor failures outside warranty?

Their claim that they introduced modern crank drives to the UK is based on their introduction of the Panasonic Will folder and Honda Step-Combo early in the last decade, but that is wrong. They were beaten to it by Yamaha with the modern and excellent PAS in 1999 and matched by Giant with the Panasonic powered Lafree Lite in 2001.

Maybe they don't class those as 'modern electric bikes'...