Cheaper bike

After having to pay out for tow bar and Thule bike rack I have had to cut my bike budget, looking more and more at Woosh. The crank drives interest me, but I see a fair few coments on poor gear changes on Woosh crank bikes, only crank drive bike I have tried was test ride on Gepida berig 1000 with Bosch electrics,and that was fine . Would I have probkems with the Woosh system, what is build quality like on Woosh bikes, I know there not up to Kalkhoff build, but you pay for that. I'm not against hub motors, but being 16 stone, 5' 9" they keep recommending crank bikes or the Big Bear, latter looks way to bulky for me. Any advice on Woosh or other bikes appreciated, under the £1000 bracket please. Thanks

the full sus sporty Bear would suit you best but it'll be end September or beginning October.

the full sus sporty Bear would suit you best but it'll be end September or beginning October.

I seem to be the member who has the job of reminding others of the Tonaro range! I suppose because my Compy has been so good.Super value too.

the Compy does have good look and climbing power but denwyn lives in Taunton, not particularly hilly. The Kudos Tornado would be perfect but he's allergic to Kudos. Also, his budget is now reduced. The new Bear will have hydraulic brakes and still under £1000.

the Compy does have good look and climbing power but denwyn lives in Taunton, not particularly hilly. The Kudos Tornado would be perfect but he's allergic to Kudos. Also, his budget is now reduced. The new Bear will have hydraulic brakes and still under £1000.

the Compy does have good look and climbing power but denwyn lives in Taunton, not particularly hilly. The Kudos Tornado would be perfect but he's allergic to Kudos. Also, his budget is now reduced. The new Bear will have hydraulic brakes and still under £1000.

No its not that hilly in Taunton,I'm not against a Kudos, just had bad experience with the City bike i bought from them, not there fault, bike was fine, it was me who found it to tall to ride,other than that it wasnt a bad bike. Wont get into any discussions re the Kudos City at all, its dead and buried now. Re the Bear, I do think it will be to big for me, plus im not keen on front wheel motors. Need to get this right, didnt really want to buy without trying, but my lower budget means I will more than likley have to. Bikes I have tred and found right size are Batribike Granite Pro, Freego Hawk, and Gepida Berig 1000, the Batribike was nice, partner has bought the Diamond Pro Xl, wont buy Granite though, there is no way we wil go out for rides on matching bikes, plus I dont like the bright colour anyway. Gepida is to expensive, and unsure on Hawk.

I know the current Big Bear is not your style, but the full sus Bear will have the BPM motor at the back, the rear suspension protects the spokes and it will come with front and rear Tektro hydraulic brakes.

I know the current Big Bear is not your style, but the full sus Bear will have the BPM motor at the back, the rear suspension protects the spokes and it will come with front and rear Tektro hydraulic brakes.

 

Sounds interesting, I may wait and see if Woosh put any details out , although I had hoped to sort something sooner, before she finds another use for the money . I have looked at Kudos Mountain bikes, they are the best looking M bikes out there in the price bracket, but I see they have max rider weight of 100 kg, I, m about 5 kg over that, plus would not want to stress the bike out all the time. So im not adverse to looking at Kudos.

After having to pay out for tow bar and Thule bike rack I have had to cut my bike budget, looking more and more at Woosh. The crank drives interest me, but I see a fair few coments on poor gear changes on Woosh crank bikes, only crank drive bike I have tried was test ride on Gepida berig 1000 with Bosch electrics,and that was fine . Would I have probkems with the Woosh system, what is build quality like on Woosh bikes, I know there not up to Kalkhoff build, but you pay for that. I'm not against hub motors, but being 16 stone, 5' 9" they keep recommending crank bikes or the Big Bear, latter looks way to bulky for me. Any advice on Woosh or other bikes appreciated, under the £1000 bracket please. Thanks

 

I've got a Sport Cd and Woosh build quality is okay but not up to the standard of higher priced bikes as you'd expect. The equipment is down to a price. The gears work fine with a little care, but you have to think ahead and cut the power uphill by stopping peddling for a moment or touching a brake lever. So a work around for what is really a slightly crude way of doing things. But again it's not Kalkoff money.

 

Though I'm coming round to the view that I should have paid around double what I paid for this for something like that, and got a really good bike of the sort I was used to before....

 

I'll probably end up doing that at some point. People do say that first electric bikes are not usually keepers but are more like sighters.

 

You can't ride the bike in the way I like to by keeping a steady cadence and changing gears constantly to suit. So I find myself getting out of the saddle and staying in a higher gear on hills rather than changing down too soon and going up slowly. Though you might think that you'd be using less battery by putting in more pedal effort and going faster uphill I seem to use up more that way....

 

On lower power settings the changes are smooth enough even on downshifts. But on 5 it's a bit clunky changing up in the lower range however you adjust the the mech and feather your pedaling because the power from the motor means that the mech is a bit inadequate for it really. Probably the only way to get a really smooth upward change is to keep it in a lower power setting or cut the power like you do when changing down if using 5 max setting. But that's a drag really. I've bought an SLX mech for a very good price that I'm going to put on instead which should be better I hope.

 

So all in all a good bike for the money but with the inevitable compromises that you'd expect for the price. Oh, and the brakes are crap, but the newer ones are better apparently. Though I only bought this bike a month or so ago.

Edited July 16, 201411 yr by JohnCade

Sounds interesting, I may wait and see if Woosh put any details out , although I had hoped to sort something sooner, before she finds another use for the money . I have looked at Kudos Mountain bikes, they are the best looking M bikes out there in the price bracket, but I see they have max rider weight of 100 kg, I, m about 5 kg over that, plus would not want to stress the bike out all the time. So im not adverse to looking at Kudos.

Denwyn....re the Kudos Tornado,a completely different riding stance to your Kudos City.....dont worry about the 5kg weight,I am 17 stone and ride the little Kudos Secret bike a lot,its just being sensible and no bunny hopping off kerbs.

We have a new dealer in Weston super Mare,DS Automotive....his full details are on our website,he will keep a Kudos Tornado in stock for test rides....Helen C has just bought a Tornado from him,I think she is pleased with it.

Hope that helps

KudosDave

 

On lower power settings the changes are smooth enough even on downshifts. But on 5 it's a bit clunky changing up in the lower range however you adjust the the mech and feather your pedaling .

 

Same applies to the Bosch system, changes are clunky on higher power settings so I tend to avoid doing them.

 

Soft pedalling all other changes keeps the job right.

I've got a Sport Cd and Woosh build quality is okay but not up to the standard of higher priced bikes as you'd expect. The equipment is down to a price. The gears work fine with a little care, but you have to think ahead and cut the power uphill by stopping peddling for a moment or touching a brake lever. So a work around for what is really a slightly crude way of doing things. But again it's not Kalkoff money.

 

Though I'm coming round to the view that I should have paid around double what I paid for this for something like that, and got a really good bike of the sort I was used to before....

 

I'll probably end up doing that at some point. People do say that first electric bikes are not usually keepers but are more like sighters.

 

You can't ride the bike in the way I like to by keeping a steady cadence and changing gears constantly to suit. So I find myself getting out of the saddle and staying in a higher gear on hills rather than changing down too soon and going up slowly. Though you might think that you'd be using less battery by putting in more pedal effort and going faster uphill I seem to use up more that way....

 

On lower power settings the changes are smooth enough even on downshifts. But on 5 it's a bit clunky changing up in the lower range however you adjust the the mech and feather your pedaling because the power from the motor means that the mech is a bit inadequate for it really. Probably the only way to get a really smooth upward change is to keep it in a lower power setting or cut the power like you do when changing down if using 5 max setting. But that's a drag really. I've bought an SLX mech for a very good price that I'm going to put on instead which should be better I hope.

 

So all in all a good bike for the money but with the inevitable compromises that you'd expect for the price. Oh, and the brakes are crap, but the newer ones are better apparently. Though I only bought this bike a month or so ago.

Thanks for your very detailed and frank explination, its made up my mind to steer clear of Woosh crank drive bikes. I do understand my budget means cheaper components, but dont think I could live with the gear / crank issues on the Woosh. I never noticed them on the Gepida I tried out, but then again it was onlya 10 min fairly level ride, oh and more than twice the price of the Woosh.

Denwyn....re the Kudos Tornado,a completely different riding stance to your Kudos City.....dont worry about the 5kg weight,I am 17 stone and ride the little Kudos Secret bike a lot,its just being sensible and no bunny hopping off kerbs.

We have a new dealer in Weston super Mare,DS Automotive....his full details are on our website,he will keep a Kudos Tornado in stock for test rides....Helen C has just bought a Tornado from him,I think she is pleased with it.

Hope that helps

KudosDave

Hello again...bet you thought you had heard the last from me, thanks for letting me know about your dealer in Weston Super Mare, I must have missed thay on the web page. I will give him a call to see what he has. I like the look of the Tornado, also the next model up the Arriba. I like the idea of being able to view and try before buying. Just need to be sure im ok on it, oh and at 66 I need to make sure im ok with the mountain bike style. Will give them a call and try and get out there this week

Same applies to the Bosch system, changes are clunky on higher power settings so I tend to avoid doing them.

 

Soft pedalling all other changes keeps the job right.

 

I'm a bit surprised by that. I thought the higher end CD bikes had cunning software which adjusted the power for smooth changes.

I'm a bit surprised by that. I thought the higher end CD bikes had cunning software which adjusted the power for smooth changes.

 

John,all crank drives with derailleur suffer from clunky gearchanges,the higher the power the worse the change-its asking a lot of the derailleur system requiring to lift the chain,when its under load.

As others have pointed out,when you are riding a non assisted bikes by the very nature of cycling there is an arc of rotation of the pedals when the load is eased,allowing the change. But with an electric bike the motor load is constant not allowing a point to execute an unloaded change.

The Bosch system minimises the problem,especially on generation 2,but at the expense of uphill momentum.

It was for this reason that we made the decision to either go BPM hub drive,or fit the Nuvinci hub with crank drive,the latter allowing fully under load changes.

KudosDave

The current Kalkhoff Impulse systems also minimise the power transmission ill-effects during gear changes, claimed to be with minimal loss of drive due to the very short period of it's function.

Hi Denwyn,

 

You can check out Tonaro crank drive bikes at Powerpedals in Exeter which is not a million miles from Taunton.

http://www.powerpedals.co.uk/

 

I would recommend the eZee Sprint Primo at £850, but Milton Keynes is way too far from Taunton for test ride;)

on our website,he will keep a Kudos Tornado in stock for test rides....Helen C has just bought a Tornado from him,I think she is pleased with it.

Hope that helps

KudosDave

 

I'm absolutely delighted with it. The hill-climbing is beyond my expectations. And, Dave at DS Automotive couldn't have been more helpful.

 

Oh, and as for your worries about style, Denwyn, as a 57 year old woman I'm quite happy with the mountain bike style ;-)

-H

Thanks for your very detailed and frank explination, its made up my mind to steer clear of Woosh crank drive bikes. I do understand my budget means cheaper components, but dont think I could live with the gear / crank issues on the Woosh. I never noticed them on the Gepida I tried out, but then again it was onlya 10 min fairly level ride, oh and more than twice the price of the Woosh.

 

I wasn't trying to put you off but you did mention the gear issue. Actually if you don't want to ride it in a sporting way, and are happy to leave it in the higher gears and change down in advance when you need to it really isn't much of one. Particularly if you don't live in a hilly area like I do.

 

I think you were looking at the Sirocco CD which has a bigger battery than my Sport CD and would deliver a bit more power and a lot more range.

Edited July 16, 201411 yr by JohnCade

I can certainly attest to the functionality of the impulse 2 shift sensor system, which eliminates the described problem. I would urge anyone sufficiently curious to go and try one out themselves - no crunching of gears, just smooth changes. Recommended!

With all the talk about crank drive gear changes I would have thought that the nuvinci iharmony set up would be a game changer for some. Still don't hear much about it.

With all the talk about crank drive gear changes I would have thought that the nuvinci iharmony set up would be a game changer for some. Still don't hear much about it.

 

We fitted the Nuvinci 360 combined with the TCM crank drive motor to our Kudos Eiger bike. It is a very smooth bike to ride and so easy to change gear. The Harmony is very expensive and maybe a step too far for a small importer like Kudos.

KudosDave

all bikes have some compromise. Kudosdave makes the gear change on CDs into a big issue and makes you forget about the pluses of crank drive systems versus hub drives. If you ride sometime unpowered, if you like cycling at high speed, if you like climbing steep hills without worrying about killing your motor, if you like the feel of normal cycling, crank drive is miles better than hub drive. The only drawback is gear noise. So is it a big problem? To be honest, it is for some but not for most. As far as I know, nobody wrecked a derailleur on a crank drive because of gear change. On relatively flat roads, gear change noise is not noticeable. It is noticeable on steeper hills but so it is same with hub drive if you forget to go easy on the pedals. The only thing to remember: stop pedalling before changing gear and use the throttle on steep hills. Is it that difficult to do? no. So enjoy the plus side and stop worrying about a little noise once now and then.

The other option is to get the CD setup and buy a Shimano hub gear set up and replace the gears. Then cd drive with the hub gear changes.

I would do a review but I never had any problems with derailiers before.

Perhaps being mutton jeff is an advantage other than with the wife:D

Hi Denwyn,

 

You can check out Tonaro crank drive bikes at Powerpedals in Exeter which is not a million miles from Taunton.

http://www.powerpedals.co.uk/

 

I would recommend the eZee Sprint Primo at £850, but Milton Keynes is way too far from Taunton for test ride;)

John, are they at Exeter now? They used to be at South Molton?

all bikes have some compromise. Kudosdave makes the gear change on CDs into a big issue and makes you forget about the pluses of crank drive systems versus hub drives. If you ride sometime unpowered, if you like cycling at high speed, if you like climbing steep hills without worrying about killing your motor, if you like the feel of normal cycling, crank drive is miles better than hub drive. The only drawback is gear noise. So is it a big problem? To be honest, it is for some but not for most. As far as I know, nobody wrecked a derailleur on a crank drive because of gear change. On relatively flat roads, gear change noise is not noticeable. It is noticeable on steeper hills but so it is same with hub drive if you forget to go easy on the pedals. The only thing to remember: stop pedalling before changing gear and use the throttle on steep hills. Is it that difficult to do? no. So enjoy the plus side and stop worrying about a little noise once now and then.

 

Tree....customers of Woosh came up to me at the London Electric Bike Redbridge event saying that they had to upgrade their derailleur systems to try to get a decent gear change,they had lost count of the number of new chains they had fitted to their Woosh CD. We (Kudos) tried so hard to make crank drive plus derailleur to work destroying many Shimano Alivio derailleur systems and if you read back in this forum there are many examples of customers having trouble with their derailleur systems hooked up to crank drive.....how can you possibly say that 'nobody wrecked a derailleur on a crank drive because of gear change'

I would have been so pleased to make crank drive plus derailleur work,the work and cost of changing 50 plus bikes from derailleur to Nuvinci hub was not a decision we entered into lightly,but it was the only way to ensure longevity and reliability.....those awful graunching noises when you get out of sync with a gear change ,especially uphill full power downshifts in the end must cause terminal damage to the derailleur.

There are many people on this forum who climb steep hills with hub drive and no thought on 'killing their motor'.

One of the most pleasant cycling experiences is riding a hub drive bike with the German Thun torque sensor fitted,it is so intuitive in the way it delivers the power.....you should get out and try one!

This week more Kudos Tornado and Typhoon bikes were sent out than ever before and many of them to Pedelecs members,many of these people tried all sorts of other bikes and were experienced e-bikers,they made the decision that,at this time,BPM hub drive is all round the best solution.

KudosDave