Cheaper bike

[Kudoscycles]

you should google more, dave.
google 'customers reviews of the NuVinci N360'.
You won't find much compliments for the system.

Here are a couple from amazon customers. They were enthusiastic when they bought it, then less and less over time.

http://www.amazon.com/NuVinci-N360-rear-hole-black/product-reviews/B003RLA3KG

Trex..now be honest with everyone and print out the full review that you selectively started halfway through the guys posting.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

I am saying that there is a difference between nominal power (what's on the label) and instant power (what's coming out of the motor). The BPM dishes out 43% more power than the TCM can, at its maximum power on the same bike. If the manufacturers continue along the path of the Pana hub (47V 20A), then why not the BBS02 (47V 20A) ? If you feed the BBS02 with 47V 20A, it is so efficient at pulling bikes on flat roads that you can hit 40mph, at that speed, accident will be fatal. So instant power needs to be limited by law. Then you see that the TCM and SWX may be legal and the BPM and P hub not. At least Bafang are honest at labelling the BBS02 as 750W.

Trex.....Wow,you have put in print that the Bafang BPM motor and Panasonic hub motors are illegal. Wow,that is a highly litigious statement. Are you sure you don't want to retract that as a honest mistake.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Trex....I looked up your Amazon reviews.....I must say that I was surprised because everyone who has bought bikes with the Nuvinci hub,not just Kudos bikes has been very pleased with the gear change,it especially appeals to those who don't like or get on with derailleur gears.
Ok,the posting that you selectively copied started 'used the N360 for one year,never missed a beat,shifting gears is effortless and can be done even climbing steeply'.....I wonder why you didn't include that bit in your copy?
The reviewer went on to say he had a small leak but Nuvinci replaced the unit free of charge.
Amazon had 4 reviews on the Nuvinci,3 of those reviews were 4 or 5 star positive,the negative was a guy trying to fit the Nuvinci to a trigger shift not the standard twist shift,it appeared not to suit his trigger shift.
Another reviewer Robert S.D. said....
' This transmission is so quiet and clean,it's amazing.
I can be stopped and down shift instantly to lowest gear,if you commute to work on a bike get rid of cassettes and cranks and enjoy gearshifts without headaches,I am so pleased with this item,can you tell!!!!.....I wonder why you didn't include that bit in your copy.
I have to say that this guys posting would make good reading for all those budget crank drive customers who are struggling with gear changes....I have had several CD customers who want to buy a Nuvinci from us,actually we can sell the unit with its twist shift quite cheaply but the big job is sorting the spoke length,relaxing the wheel and sorting the crank alignment,it's not easy retrospectively.
Trex.....you introduced us all to those amazon reviews ,which are available for us to check,I must say I cannot see anything in those reviews that suggests that the Nuvinci is nothing other than a very good product.
You should be a journalist on the Sun,they are selective on their quotes,that old journalistic adage 'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Trex.....Wow,you have put in print that the Bafang BPM motor and Panasonic hub motors are illegal. Wow,that is a highly litigious statement. Are you sure you don't want to retract that as a honest mistake.
KudosDave

dave, don't spin it, it will make you look like a loser.
I said if... then. Sooner or later, the law will be clarified. I am pretty convinced that instant power would be limited to avoid misuse.

 

[trex]

Trex....I looked up your Amazon reviews.....I must say that I was surprised because everyone who has bought bikes with the Nuvinci hub,not just Kudos bikes has been very pleased with the gear change,it especially appeals to those who don't like or get on with derailleur gears.
Ok,the posting that you selectively copied started 'used the N360 for one year,never missed a beat,shifting gears is effortless and can be done even climbing steeply'.....I wonder why you didn't include that bit in your copy?
The reviewer went on to say he had a small leak but Nuvinci replaced the unit free of charge.
Amazon had 4 reviews on the Nuvinci,3 of those reviews were 4 or 5 star positive,the negative was a guy trying to fit the Nuvinci to a trigger shift not the standard twist shift,it appeared not to suit his trigger shift.
Another reviewer Robert S.D. said....
' This transmission is so quiet and clean,it's amazing.
I can be stopped and down shift instantly to lowest gear,if you commute to work on a bike get rid of cassettes and cranks and enjoy gearshifts without headaches,I am so pleased with this item,can you tell!!!!
Trex.....you introduced us all to those amazon reviews ,which are available for us to check,I must say I cannot see anything in those reviews that suggests that the Nuvinci is nothing other than a very good product.
You should be a journalist on the Sun,they are selective on their quotes,that old journalistic adage 'don't let the truth get in the way of a good story'
KudosDave

the subtext of that review is this: do you want an oil leak into your rollerbrakes? or do you want stuck gear? if they were made in Shenzen, fair enough, but at 20 times the price of a derailleur?
anyone can google up 'problems with NuVinci N360' if they want to pick on them.
Or maybe d8veh can comment on the NuVinci gear change under high load, he's got one of them.
What's better? noisy but efficient or stuck and lose x% power on high gradient?

 

[Kudoscycles]

the subtext of that review is this: do you want an oil leak into your rollerbrakes? or do you want stuck gear? if they were made in Shenzen, fair enough, but at 30 times the price of a derailleur?
anyone can google up 'problems with NuVinci N360' if they want to pick on them.

Trex,you are doing it again,deviating off subject...I ask you again,before you answer remember these are large companies with big legal departments....you stated that you consider 'the Bafang BPM motor and Panasonic hub drive are illegal under EN 15194' Did you really mean that or was it an honest mistake?
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

The NuVinci gearchange does stiffen up under load, and that is proportional to the amount of transmission loading. I can imagine that with a more powerful crank unit than the one I tried it with, it could be a bit difficult. d8veh has also reported in this forum the stiffening change under load.

 

[Kudoscycles]

dave, don't spin it, it will make you look like a loser.
I said if... then. Sooner or later, the law will be clarified. I am pretty convinced that instant power would be limited to avoid misuse.

Trex....I have not engaged in any spin....merely responding to your own postings,actually the selectivity of your copying so reminds me of that master of spin,Tony Blair who took us to war on selectively provided information.
Pedelecs members can read,look up reviews and make their own decisions in these matters,that is the benefit of an open forum.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The NuVinci gearchange does stiffen up under load, and that is proportional to the amount of transmission loading. I can imagine that with a more powerful crank unit than the one I tried it with, it could be a bit difficult. d8veh has also reported in this forum the stiffening change under load.

Flecc....how long ago did you try the Nuvinci,over the last few years they have made considerable improvements in the system,we have one in a bike near you,easy for you to try.
Even under load the twisting of the revoshift is no more difficult than turning a throttle.
I tried the original Nuvinci 3 years ago,it was truly awful in every respect but the latest system is effortless.
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

Trex,i just don't get your point,that says 750 watt motor,is it Woosh intention to sell such a motor?
If you put a 250 watt sticker on a 750 watt motor I would suggest that madness is perhaps not the right word,maybe stupid and dishonest would be more appropriate.
Maybe just splitting semantics.
KudosDave

They wouldn't be the first. Heinzmann at one time badged an identical motor 700 watts or 400 watts, this confirmed by their UK main agents at the time, Kinetics.

 

[trex]

Trex,you are doing it again,deviating off subject...I ask you again,before you answer remember these are large companies with big legal departments....you stated that you consider 'the Bafang BPM motor and Panasonic hub drive are illegal under EN 15194' Did you really mean that or was it an honest mistake?
KudosDave

I did not say anything of the sort. In all my previous posts, I always said that the bike is legal if the manufacturer says it is. They don't even have to have an EN15194 certificate for each bike, they can issue certificate of conformity themselves for variants of one that has certificate. d8veh has made us do a lot of reading last year on the subject.

 

[flecc]

Flecc....how long ago did you try the Nuvinci,over the last few years they have made considerable improvements in the system,we have one in a bike near you,easy for you to try.
Even under load the twisting of the revoshift is no more difficult than turning a throttle.
I tried the original Nuvinci 3 years ago,it was truly awful in every respect but the latest system is effortless.
KudosDave

It was admittedly an early version. The one that d8veh reported on quite recently was the current model though, so perhaps there's variability. However, he does like and recommend it.

 

[D8ve]

That's what the theory says, but nobody has ever been able to prove it. My side-by-side trials show the hub motor to be more efficient. The KTM with hub motor trounced the Bosch in the hill-climbing efficiency test.

Did you do hill climbing vs range vs amps draw?
The KTM may have had better hill climbing ability, but for what power requirement?

 

[trex]

Flecc....how long ago did you try the Nuvinci,over the last few years they have made considerable improvements in the system,we have one in a bike near you,easy for you to try.
Even under load the twisting of the revoshift is no more difficult than turning a throttle.
I tried the original Nuvinci 3 years ago,it was truly awful in every respect but the latest system is effortless.
KudosDave

why don't you send your Eiger out to a member like dmsims or jimod or d8ve or hoppy for review? they all have experience of CD with derailleur

 

[rippedupno1]

Or me

 

[Kudoscycles]

I am saying that there is a difference between nominal power (what's on the label) and instant power (what's coming out of the motor). The BPM dishes out 43% more power than the TCM can, at its maximum power on the same bike. If the manufacturers continue along the path of the Pana hub (47V 20A), then why not the BBS02 (47V 20A) ? If you feed the BBS02 with 47V 20A, it is so efficient at pulling bikes on flat roads that you can hit 40mph, at that speed, accident will be fatal. So instant power needs to be limited by law. Then you see that the TCM and SWX may be legal and the BPM and P hub not. At least Bafang are honest at labelling the BBS02 as 750W.

Trex,i read that as saying that the TCM and SWX are legal and the BPM and Panasonic are not,at least Bafang are honest at labelling.
How can anyone be confused by that statement.
Some points...
The BPM is also manufactured by Bafang,why should they be honest on one motor and dishonest on another?
Panasonic would not be very impressed by your referring to their hub drive as illegal,there must be hundreds of KTM Panasonic hub motored owners in the UK who would like their bikes to be UK legal.
TCM....you might be amused to know I gave it that name,I was sitting waiting for a plane at Shanghai airport and needed a name for that motor,it stands for Tianjin Crank Motor,it was developed at Tianjin university,it is cheap,with a cheap derailleur like the Shimano Tourney gears,the lot can be bought for less than 100 US dollars. You can make it work in a bike but it needed development and hub gears.
Haven't received my royalties from Woosh on the use of my name,hehe!
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Or me

dmsims to have the biggest hills near his house though.
it would be fun comparing also the Kudos Tornado against the Mosso + BBS02.
How fast does the BBS02 reach on flat roads?

 

[Kudoscycles]

Or me

Rippedupno.....where do you guys get your names from? Amazing!
If you want to try a Kudos Tornado,Electric Dave (D8veh) has a test bike at Telford ,not a million miles from you.
Thanks
KudosDave

 

[trex]

dave. I did not say that BPM and Panasonic hub motors are illegal. I said 'if ... Then you see that the TCM and SWX may be legal and the BPM and P hub not.'
you'll look like a loser if you misquote posts to win an argument.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It was admittedly an early version. The one that d8veh reported on quite recently was the current model though, so perhaps there's variability. However, he does like and recommend it.

Flecc,the early Nuvinci was awful,too heavy,like riding through treacle and heavy change.....they have under engineered it (is that a good expression?)and it is so different. D8veh hooked it up to 500 watts plus which shows it can take some power but it would get stiffer under that load,the TCM has nothing like that power.
How are you?
You do less postings these days?
Regards
Dave