Broke my motor lead - new motor (and wheel build) or is it replaceable ?
- Thread starter 103Alex1
- Start date
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
Before you go too much further, you should check all your hall wires by putting your meter on bleep, then put one probe on the external end of each of the 5 hall wires and the other end on each of the 5 corresponding wires where they attach to the pcb. You check the phase wires by putting your probes on each pair of the external phase wire ends (BY, BG, YG). I'm sure they'll be OK, but it would be a pain to find something wrong after it's all back together.
The hall sensor would be mounted flat against the pcb with the sensor face of the hall device facing upwards and the leads inserted through the 3 holes and soldered to the correct copper pads on the other side of the pcb.
A magnet would have to be fitted to the side plate so that it passes over the hall device when the motor rotates.
I am only guessing but if they offer this as an option that there would already be a recessed machined in the face of the inside of the end cover plate to receive a magnet.
Perhaps you could post a picture of the end plate here to see if we can identify if that is the case or not.
A magnet would have to be fitted to the side plate so that it passes over the hall device when the motor rotates.
I am only guessing but if they offer this as an option that there would already be a recessed machined in the face of the inside of the end cover plate to receive a magnet.
Perhaps you could post a picture of the end plate here to see if we can identify if that is the case or not.
So ..... where I've got to :
Re-used the part of the spring i was able to retrieve and secured with shrinkwrap like it originally was :
It's optional, but can't be bad for helping stop the cable rubbing on any sharp edge at the outer axle exit.
The repaired and insulated wires ... one almighty bundle ...
The residue is from the silicone adhesive which hasn't succeeded in glueing down the insulated wires. If you look side-on some are slightly above the level of the copper wound but obviously would compress down.
I suppose these wires definitely need glueing down ? If so, going to have to find something else that works. Got a feeling the self-fusing silicone insulation won't stick down with silicone adhesive. Superglue won't work either ... so any suggestions welcome. Got a feeling a lot of epoxies won't work with this sort of material either
.. Think electrical tape but silicone ... need something to secure it !
You find a brilliant solution to help one problem (awkward insulation) and wind up with a new one (won't glue down to metal with any regular strong adhesives !!! Grrr ...
Re-used the part of the spring i was able to retrieve and secured with shrinkwrap like it originally was :
It's optional, but can't be bad for helping stop the cable rubbing on any sharp edge at the outer axle exit.
The repaired and insulated wires ... one almighty bundle ...
The residue is from the silicone adhesive which hasn't succeeded in glueing down the insulated wires. If you look side-on some are slightly above the level of the copper wound but obviously would compress down.
I suppose these wires definitely need glueing down ? If so, going to have to find something else that works. Got a feeling the self-fusing silicone insulation won't stick down with silicone adhesive. Superglue won't work either ... so any suggestions welcome. Got a feeling a lot of epoxies won't work with this sort of material either
.. Think electrical tape but silicone ... need something to secure it !You find a brilliant solution to help one problem (awkward insulation) and wind up with a new one (won't glue down to metal with any regular strong adhesives !!! Grrr ...
Not following I'm afraid Dave - what do you mean by the external end of the Hall wires ? There's a 9-pin male connector on the cable. Should I attach to the female and test at the pins or something ?
Here you go :
Perhaps a magnet could slot into one of the machined holes on that if you wanted it then (there are 6 identical ones the same relative position as the machined hole under the PCB).
Just thinking about it though, if you've got a common black/red circuit and a signal to a standalone wire (the white) which is not used in the motor and is actually cut away before the controller on the female connector cable that's supplied with the motor then I guess you can use it to slot in any sensor that's compatible with being sited in there if you have a female cable which has not had the white signal wire cut down short of the controller join ?
The PCB markings are S2 / 0V / +5V on the white / black / red PCB circuit trace at those holes so maybe it was designed for a speed sensor option (the Hall sensor ones are H1, H2, H3).
Nonetheless, I guess a temperature sensor in there would most likely work too as long as you could route the white to a device which could intepret and output the relevant signal ?
Last edited:
That is the rotor case, I need to see the inside face of the cover plate which has the cassette on that side- will check back in Saturday its getting late.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
You need to check your solder joints by probing from one end of the wire to the other. The hall wires end on the pcb. The other ends are are the outside end of black multi-core cable where the black connector is, but it's difficult to probe there and you can't tell which colour is which. so you need to plug that connector into the other part of the cable and probe where the white connector and phase bullets are.
So the outstanding issues are :
1) Something to hold that wire bundle down with and hold it in place if that's essential (gutter sealant ?)
2) Phase and Sensor wire testing (d8veh, Help ... ! - see above) / EDIT : - crossed with your post. All done now as below.
3) What the thick black grease that lubricates the gears is called - so I can get some tomorrow whilst there are shops open if possible
4) Make a decision whether to risk trying to put the cover back on or get some experienced hands to help. Still have no vice available. I was thinking about putting the side plate with the outer magnets on the floor facing upwards, positioning the axle in the middle and then trying to raise it whilst pushing downwards to resist the magnet force till it's aligned and over the inner magnets - and then letting go once it's nearly home. Really hard to know how to do this right / safely !!!
1) Something to hold that wire bundle down with and hold it in place if that's essential (gutter sealant ?)
2) Phase and Sensor wire testing (d8veh, Help ... !
- see above) / EDIT : - crossed with your post. All done now as below. 3) What the thick black grease that lubricates the gears is called - so I can get some tomorrow whilst there are shops open if possible
4) Make a decision whether to risk trying to put the cover back on or get some experienced hands to help. Still have no vice available. I was thinking about putting the side plate with the outer magnets on the floor facing upwards, positioning the axle in the middle and then trying to raise it whilst pushing downwards to resist the magnet force till it's aligned and over the inner magnets - and then letting go once it's nearly home. Really hard to know how to do this right / safely !!!
Here you go. It's just bevelled.
Last edited:
Multimeter test completed. All phase wire pair combos tested at the bullet connector ends of the coupled cable which goes into the controller and a bleep on every combo.
Also tested the 5 sensor wires. There's a bleep on all of those with one probe on the PCB contact point (outermost) and one probe on the corresponding spade of male connector pin at the end of the controller coupling. All are crackly and feint - maybe because there's sealant over most of the contacts on the PCB and the wires are very thin ? At least there's a beep on everything.
Also tested the 5 sensor wires. There's a bleep on all of those with one probe on the PCB contact point (outermost) and one probe on the corresponding spade of male connector pin at the end of the controller coupling. All are crackly and feint - maybe because there's sealant over most of the contacts on the PCB and the wires are very thin ? At least there's a beep on everything.
D
Deleted member 4366
Guest
To test the phase wires: each pair of bullets.
Gutter sealant should work. but you need to hold everything down while it sets at least 24 hours.
Going by the colour of the grease, it looks like it's a graphite grease, so I'd say any quality graphite grease that you can get from your local car spares shop or here:
1 x 100ml GRAPHITE GREASE LUBRICANT FOR SPLINED & SCREWED JOINTS GEARS GATES new | eBay
Gutter sealant should work. but you need to hold everything down while it sets at least 24 hours.
Going by the colour of the grease, it looks like it's a graphite grease, so I'd say any quality graphite grease that you can get from your local car spares shop or here:
1 x 100ml GRAPHITE GREASE LUBRICANT FOR SPLINED & SCREWED JOINTS GEARS GATES new | eBay
^^ That looks better than Gutter Sealant and I think is what was being used to seat the incoming lead under its fixing collar bracket - and where the sensor wires exit the copper wound.
I just looked again at the original photo of the pre-repair motor - the plastic bracket is what was taking the place of cable ties or clips to tie down the wires. That'll never fit back on with extra bulk of insulated repair wires from spliced joins.
If the broken cable hadn't been severed at the axle exit a repair further down the cable might have been possible. But there's no way round having to splice in other than to unmake and remake 6 tiny connections on the PCB and make sure they're all seated securely - seems far more prone to go wrong or for some traces to be accidentally bridged.
Would have been much easier for this bit with some machined holes in the plate to tie the cables down to like there are on the bigger American motors. This isn't easy at all !
I can't remember but I think the PCB side is the side that the plate with the magnets spins round so presumably that's why there can't be contact between the spinning plate and the cables beneath ? My understanding of working parts in a motor still in its infancy !
I just looked again at the original photo of the pre-repair motor - the plastic bracket is what was taking the place of cable ties or clips to tie down the wires. That'll never fit back on with extra bulk of insulated repair wires from spliced joins.
If the broken cable hadn't been severed at the axle exit a repair further down the cable might have been possible. But there's no way round having to splice in other than to unmake and remake 6 tiny connections on the PCB and make sure they're all seated securely - seems far more prone to go wrong or for some traces to be accidentally bridged.
Would have been much easier for this bit with some machined holes in the plate to tie the cables down to like there are on the bigger American motors. This isn't easy at all !
I can't remember but I think the PCB side is the side that the plate with the magnets spins round so presumably that's why there can't be contact between the spinning plate and the cables beneath ? My understanding of working parts in a motor still in its infancy !
OKay. Been hard to find that round here - gonna be another mail order & wait for deliveries I guess ... the local car part suppliers all closed till Monday anyway.
Last edited:
soldering it to the pcb .... with the 3 legs in the right place, lol
From a quick look at your pcb piccys you may have to cross the Vout and GND legs .. maybe
Maybe best to install it flat on the pcb then use heat shrink on the legs (don't bother heating it) as insulation, then a dab of the sealant just to stop any vibration from stressing the soldered connections.
Last edited:
Hi Alex,
As there is no place to fit a magnet I would shelve the idea of adding a speed sensor but d8veh's' ( delete wrong one) temp sender might still be on the cards.
This is my method of joining wires:
Strip the insulation back about 8mm, twist the bare wires, tin the wire end and then trim the ends square back to 5mm.
Cut off a piece of thin walled brass tubing about 7mm long.
Insert the wires into the tubing so that the wire ends butt together leaving a small portion of the wire exposed.
Touch the soldering iron tip against the middle of the tube to heat it and wait to see the solder on the exposed ends reflow.
Apply extra solder to the exposed wire ends it should be pulled into the tube by capillary
action. Remove the iron and allow to cool.
Slide heatshrink over joint and shrink.
Resultant joint only slightly bigger diameter than original wire. You can then use the original cover without using any tape or glue.
Link to tubing:
I used 3mm tubing ( with 2mm hole ) to do this join on motor power cables removed from a controller. You will need to select the right size to fit your wires.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brass-Tubes-2mm-7mm-300mm-long-0-45mm-wall-/360513204144?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&var=630063683210&hash=item53f042efb0
As there is no place to fit a magnet I would shelve the idea of adding a speed sensor but d8veh's' ( delete wrong one) temp sender might still be on the cards.
This is my method of joining wires:
Strip the insulation back about 8mm, twist the bare wires, tin the wire end and then trim the ends square back to 5mm.
Cut off a piece of thin walled brass tubing about 7mm long.
Insert the wires into the tubing so that the wire ends butt together leaving a small portion of the wire exposed.
Touch the soldering iron tip against the middle of the tube to heat it and wait to see the solder on the exposed ends reflow.
Apply extra solder to the exposed wire ends it should be pulled into the tube by capillary
action. Remove the iron and allow to cool.
Slide heatshrink over joint and shrink.
Resultant joint only slightly bigger diameter than original wire. You can then use the original cover without using any tape or glue.
Link to tubing:
I used 3mm tubing ( with 2mm hole ) to do this join on motor power cables removed from a controller. You will need to select the right size to fit your wires.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brass-Tubes-2mm-7mm-300mm-long-0-45mm-wall-/360513204144?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&var=630063683210&hash=item53f042efb0
Last edited:
Thanks shemozzle. But that's asking me to dismantle 6 hours' work. (!). I think I might have to get someone else to do that as I don't think I'd have the heart for it at this stage in the game. But it's a very neat solution and I will know for the next time I join 2 wires .
The original plastic cover was so tight against the wires even a tiny bulge would have rendered it unusable. I have tried to demel it to get to fit now (it was dremelled out somewhat for the original phase wires) but it won't fit over a repair. So we have to forget about the plastic cover - it's the bin for that and either a suitable alternative solution or bin the motor.
The learning bit is great but the impact on the rest of my life and plans of the time it's taking me to learn is now getting to be a f*****g nightmare to manage out. In the end, I need a working bike finished and available. I am starting to panic with the scale of what's left to work out how to do and the feeling of a gun to my head with time marching on.
So I have to go with what I've done and find a fix that works with that. Am pretty much at my limit with this motor/repair - if it can't be sorted in a way that's going to stand up to on-going regular operation Tuesday I am going to call a halt and reassess my options and plans. A new motor can be here by the time I get my box and electrics built. I will just have to stomach borrowing the money to buy it.
I am still considering selling the bike on to cover the over-run of costs from buying a new motor and fitting it to a far cheaper bike before making the box to fit the cheap bike.
Would break my heart as I love my bike but it's all getting a bit stressful now. I'll still have to get a new brake line and put it back to how it was before fitting the brake cutoff switch to sell on.
This was a test to see if I could fix the motor and get the products to keep it running reliably as quickly as possible. If I am not up to maintaining and fixing the bike without having to call in hands-on help then maybe I am better off buying a ready kit - or else doing without one as my funds are being hammered from other sides now. This bike is going somewhere I won't have the means to do major repairs inside a year and with no car I need something that will stay working down there.
. The original plastic cover was so tight against the wires even a tiny bulge would have rendered it unusable. I have tried to demel it to get to fit now (it was dremelled out somewhat for the original phase wires) but it won't fit over a repair. So we have to forget about the plastic cover - it's the bin for that and either a suitable alternative solution or bin the motor.
The learning bit is great but the impact on the rest of my life and plans of the time it's taking me to learn is now getting to be a f*****g nightmare to manage out. In the end, I need a working bike finished and available. I am starting to panic with the scale of what's left to work out how to do and the feeling of a gun to my head with time marching on.
So I have to go with what I've done and find a fix that works with that. Am pretty much at my limit with this motor/repair - if it can't be sorted in a way that's going to stand up to on-going regular operation Tuesday I am going to call a halt and reassess my options and plans. A new motor can be here by the time I get my box and electrics built. I will just have to stomach borrowing the money to buy it.
I am still considering selling the bike on to cover the over-run of costs from buying a new motor and fitting it to a far cheaper bike before making the box to fit the cheap bike.
Would break my heart as I love my bike but it's all getting a bit stressful now. I'll still have to get a new brake line and put it back to how it was before fitting the brake cutoff switch to sell on.
This was a test to see if I could fix the motor and get the products to keep it running reliably as quickly as possible. If I am not up to maintaining and fixing the bike without having to call in hands-on help then maybe I am better off buying a ready kit - or else doing without one as my funds are being hammered from other sides now. This bike is going somewhere I won't have the means to do major repairs inside a year and with no car I need something that will stay working down there.
Last edited:
Hi Alex,
Securely box the stator up together with the shaft attached, the plastic cover, cable relief clamp/screws and I will rewire it for you foc.
PM me for my address if interested.
Securely box the stator up together with the shaft attached, the plastic cover, cable relief clamp/screws and I will rewire it for you foc.
PM me for my address if interested.
Last edited:
Related Articles
-
MTF Enterprises announces acquisition of EMU Electric Bikes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Wisper 806T folding bike wins Which? ‘Best Buy’- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Sustrans calls for protected cycle lanes- Started by: Pedelecs
-
Amazon launch their first UK e-cargo micromobility hub- Started by: Pedelecs
