Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Larry the Cat

@Number10cat
It’s official, we’ve reached the Conservative equinox: the point when Tories shift from blaming the last Labour government to blaming the next Labour government. The cosmic ballet goes on.

 

[flecc]

NATO has never had all members totally in agreement.

Imagine if Russia had joined NATO (leaving aside EU membership for this thought). Then Russia had decided to barge into Crimea? What then?

Imagine having somehow got away with Crimea, he barged into Ukraine, as he has. What then?

Very difficult to handle a NATO country which "goes rogue". It might be better that Russia never got in as the alternative might have been even worse. I certainly don't know but it is up for discussion.

We already have something of this situation now with Turkey. President Erdoğan's close personal relationahip with Putin has resulted in some embarrassing situations, such as Turkey, a NATO country, buying Russian anti-missile defences in preference to the US ones. Russian missiles for NATO to defend against Russian missiles, how likely is that!

Not to mention his canal scheme for an additional way to exit the Black Sea, which realistically is mainly of benefit to Russia's southern fleet.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Shopping for OXO cubes, I saw beef, chicken, lamb, vegetable and a Liz Truss, so I asked the shop assistant "what’s the Truss one?" she said- "its new out, its the laughing stock"

 

[flecc]

The truth is that this Russian aggression would have been prevented if Ukraine has been allowed to join Nato.

True, but Ukraine was so far from being an acceptable democratic country that was impossible.

Imagine it, a NATO country with a private, far right, neo-nazi army tolerated in addition to its regular army.

I'm speaking of the Azov Army, funded by a Ukrainian oligarch and which was recently incorporated into the regular army, nazis and all.

They were the regiment Ukraine sent to Mariupol to defend it, which is why Russia was so determined to win there and ship all the surrendered Azov army prisoners to Russia.
.

 

[Woosh]

Larry the Cat
@Number10cat
It’s official, we’ve reached the Conservative equinox: the point when Tories shift from blaming the last Labour government to blaming the next Labour government. The cosmic ballet goes on.

that's the effect of quantum entanglement. It's the same Labour party across time and space.

 

[Woosh]

the BoE has hit the QE button. It is now the buyer of last resort for KK's Treasury bonds.
On the news, the Pound fell 1.5%.
My guess it will continue to fall.
What will Liz Truss have to say at the next PMQ?

 

[esuark]

What will Liz Truss have to say at the next PMQ?

I think it would be more amusing if the other buffoon was still in charge. er um head swiveling from side to side then resort to pepper pig that works.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Larry the Cat
@Number10cat
It’s official, we’ve reached the Conservative equinox: the point when Tories shift from blaming the last Labour government to blaming the next Labour government. The cosmic ballet goes on.

Truss is trying to distance herself from kwarteng, as if the "mini" budget was his plan

Tory MPs question Kwasi Kwarteng’s future as market turmoil continues | Financial Times

Liz Truss must jettison chancellor or risk losing premiership, says member of government

www.ft.com

Stick, twist … or sack Kwasi Kwarteng? The choices facing Liz Truss

We rate PM’s likely next steps as she sets about navigating path through crisis of her government’s making

www.theguardian.com

THAT (if it works, even on the red wall) is cosmic ballet

 

[oyster]

The president of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has said on Twitter that he has had a phonecall conversation with the prime minister, Liz Truss, prompting some to ask if he could get a message to her to appear in public and address the unfolding financial crisis in the UK.

 

[oldgroaner]

the BoE has hit the QE button. It is now the buyer of last resort for KK's Treasury bonds.
On the news, the Pound fell 1.5%.
My guess it will continue to fall.
What will Liz Truss have to say at the next PMQ?

 

[Danidl]

I have never made reference to Ukraine seeking NATO membership. All my references have been to the US efforts to get Georgia and Ukraine into NATO, commencing from 2004. US success was signalled when Saakashhvilli announced in November 2007 that they would seek NATO membership. That period was the origin of Russia's fears and why it led to the the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 to, as it were, teach them a lesson, that spelled out to President Mikheil Saakashvili by Putin in person.

You also got the wrong end of the stick again in an earlier post when you referred to Europe's countries reducing their NATO committment as if it was NATO policy. It was definitely not, as shown by the US constant attempts to reinvigorate NATO, that by badgering countries to commit more to defence, later spelling out that 2% each of GDP on defence expenditure was expected.
,

Whether you said it or not, Putin advanced as his reason for the invasion that NATO in Ukraine was an existential risk to Russia. When Zelenskyy was prepared to park that , he then brought up the denazification trope. .
And yes all through the time of the reunification of Germany and glasnost , NATO DID reduce its footprint. Surely you recall the closures of BAOR . Barracks all over Norther Saxony?. European Countries continued to drag their feet about upgrading NATO, all the time until last year.
Of course NATO wanted itself to be strong ..thats the nature of organisations, but the European Paymasters who are the bosses of NATO ,including the UK dragged their feet.
Yes the USA was hectoring Europe, but Europe was wanting to put things on the ever longer finger. There was until last February a belief and a hope that Russia was a partner in prosperity

 

[flecc]

And yes all through the time of the reunification of Germany and glasnost , NATO DID reduce its footprint. Surely you recall the closures of BAOR . Barracks all over Norther Saxony?. European Countries continued to drag their feet about upgrading NATO, all the time until last year.

Yes the USA was hectoring Europe, but Europe was wanting to put things on the ever longer finger. There was until last February a belief and a hope that Russia was a partner in prosperity

Of course I do, which is why I mentioned all this myself. So why are you pretending I don't know when I've already shown I did?
.

 

[Danidl]

True, but Ukraine was so far from being an acceptable democratic country that was impossible.

Imagine it, a NATO country with a private, far right, neo-nazi army tolerated in addition to its regular army.

I'm speaking of the Azov Army, funded by a Ukrainian oligarch and which was recently incorporated into the regular army, nazis and all.

They were the regiment Ukraine sent to Mariupol to defend it, which is why Russia was so determined to win there and ship all the surrendered Azov army prisoners to Russia.
.

"They were the regiment Ukraine sent to Mariupol to defend it, which is why Russia was so determined to win there and ship all the surrendered Azov army prisoners to Russia." ...
Sorry Flecc, again a slight egging of the pudding. At 2014 era, Russia did attack Mariupol in the intentions of establishing a land route to Crimea . Russia was flustrated by the heroism of a far right NATIONALIST group ..with a NAZI far right ideology. To the Russians, being Nationalist was equally as obnoxious as Nazi ..only Russians are entitled to be Nationalist . Remember in 2014 the Ukrainian military was a shambles, so a volunteer gang of defenders ,defending THEIR TOWN , was a godsend.
They did succeed , against all the odds in fighting off that invasion. Putin never forgives a slight... . By 2021, they were FUlly Integrated into the Ukrainian Army as a regular unit and located in Mariupol. Their so called "nazism " had been curbed and was more part of mainstream Ukrainian thinking or more likely, the rest of Ukrainian society had been developing a sense of National Identity over the years, They weren't sent to Mariupol , they were located there.

 

[flecc]

"They were the regiment Ukraine sent to Mariupol to defend it, which is why Russia was so determined to win there and ship all the surrendered Azov army prisoners to Russia." ...
Sorry Flecc, again a slight egging of the pudding. At 2014 era, Russia did attack Mariupol in the intentions of establishing a land route to Crimea . Russia was flustrated by the heroism of a far right NATIONALIST group ..with a NAZI far right ideology. To the Russians, being Nationalist was equally as obnoxious as Nazi ..only Russians are entitled to be Nationalist . Remember in 2014 the Ukrainian military was a shambles, so a volunteer gang of defenders ,defending THEIR TOWN , was a godsend.
They did succeed , against all the odds in fighting off that invasion. Putin never forgives a slight... . By 2021, they were FUlly Integrated into the Ukrainian Army as a regular unit and located in Mariupol. Their so called "nazism " had been curbed and was more part of mainstream Ukrainian thinking or more likely, the rest of Ukrainian society had been developing a sense of National Identity over the years, They weren't sent to Mariupol , they were located there.

Once again pretending to tell me what I already knew and had shown I knew.

It's you doing the egging to try to put a different slant on events.

The Azov Battalian were integrated into the regular army by Zelenskyy to defend Mariupol when the threat of Russian attack had become very likely. Without that threat they wouldn't have been absorbed, it was desperation.

And don't try to kid me that they had their "nazism" curbed. Next you'll be telling me Ukraine's C14 aren't nazi extreme right wing thugs.

Ukraine has many such far right groups, though not enough to in any way justify Putin's attack.
.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

"They were the regiment Ukraine sent to Mariupol to defend it, which is why Russia was so determined to win there and ship all the surrendered Azov army prisoners to Russia." ...
Sorry Flecc, again a slight egging of the pudding. At 2014 era, Russia did attack Mariupol in the intentions of establishing a land route to Crimea . Russia was flustrated by the heroism of a far right NATIONALIST group ..with a NAZI far right ideology. To the Russians, being Nationalist was equally as obnoxious as Nazi ..only Russians are entitled to be Nationalist . Remember in 2014 the Ukrainian military was a shambles, so a volunteer gang of defenders ,defending THEIR TOWN , was a godsend.
They did succeed , against all the odds in fighting off that invasion. Putin never forgives a slight... . By 2021, they were FUlly Integrated into the Ukrainian Army as a regular unit and located in Mariupol. Their so called "nazism " had been curbed and was more part of mainstream Ukrainian thinking or more likely, the rest of Ukrainian society had been developing a sense of National Identity over the years, They weren't sent to Mariupol , they were located there.

To add there is the profound irony of putin's russia trying to rehabilitate stalin while justifying the invasion of a democratic neighbour on the presence of a nationalist battalion.

 

[oyster]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575144324769120261

 

[oyster]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1575144324769120261

 

[Danidl]

Once again pretending to tell me what I already knew and had shown I knew.

It's you doing the egging to try to put a different slant on events.

The Azov Battalian were integrated into the regular army by Zelenskyy to defend Mariupol when the threat of Russian attack had become very likely. Without that threat they wouldn't have been absorbed, it was desperation.

And don't try to kid me that they had their "nazism" curbed. Next you'll be telling me Ukraine's C14 aren't nazi extreme right wing thugs.

Ukraine has many such far right groups, though not enough to in any way justify Putin's attack.
.

Flecc, I am not attempting to tell you anything, just setting the record straight.

 

[tillson]

the BoE has hit the QE button. It is now the buyer of last resort for KK's Treasury bonds.
On the news, the Pound fell 1.5%.
My guess it will continue to fall.
What will Liz Truss have to say at the next PMQ?

The following is not a joke. I think she will actually say it:

“The Conservative Party is building a world beating U.K. economy which will become the envy of the world.“

She will then accuse anyone asking questions or pointing out the obvious flaws as somehow being unpatriotic, or wanting to sabotage the U.K.‘s development. It’s tediously predictable.

Her and Coat-hanger are a pair of fools. They even have the physical appearance of people who are retarded.

 

[oldgroaner]

Kami Kwazi received the shortest Email in History