Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

You still have not said what kind of real socialism you would vote for.

Mine is the Nordic model:

An elaborate social safety net, in addition to public services such as free education and universal healthcare in a largely tax-funded system. Strong property rights, contract enforcement and overall ease of doing business. Public pension plans.

A society in which those at the top and bottom of the stack could swap places and not experience hardship.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't doubt any of that. It is high time Boris went, but you fail to see or accept the irony in the situation.
How bad has Boris and Tories got to get before they are seen and actually are worse than alternative.
You don't see point I, ve been making for months. Yes, current Tories are a terrible shower, they always have been and always were but they were chosen over your hero Starmer. The simple fact is Tories are only in power and are likely to stay in power at next election, because of utter inadequacy of Labour.
Yes, without doubt the worst Government in my memory and one that has lied, broken its own rules, proved to be incompetent and as yet not delivered on any promises is still in power and could quite easily remain so. Now, why is that Woosh. I, ll tell you why, because ironically the worst government in living memory coincides with the worst opposition in living memory.
If Labour do inherit power it won't be on their merit, it will be on failings of Johnson and Tories.

Actually the reason for the worst government in history is simpler than all that.
Voters were stupid enough to vote for them without engaging their brains.
The rest is excuses

 

[flecc]

Actually the reason for the worst government in history is simpler than all that.
Voters were stupid enough to vote for them without engaging their brains.
The rest is excuses

Agreed, but there was also an element of despair since 1951.

They've had Tory leaders from Churchill to May, they've had Labour from Wilson to Callaghan, they've had New Labour from Blair and Brown and even a brief taste of LibDems from Clegg.

They've all proved to have been hopelessly not up to the job, leaving voters with unacceptable nut cases like Farage and his other Monster Raving Loony Party.

So the despairing voter with nothing good on offer ticks the box for the one that looks least bad to them.
.

 

[Woosh]

They've all proved to have been hopelessly not up to the job, leaving voters with unacceptable nut cases like Farage and his other Monster Raving Loony Party.

to be fair to them, they have all been given a nigh impossible task which is 'Make UK Great Again'.
The problem is they only have one trump card: the status of reserve currency of the Pound.
That lets them print more money than possible for many other countries because comparatively, the exchange value of the Pound sinks less than if the Pound wasn't a reserve currency.
However, the mechanism of 'quantitative easing' channels the new money through the big banks which is the worst possible way they could have done. The banks would simply channel the money to their most profitable businesses: stock market and mortgages. Very little of the new money is used to stimulate the economy or buy factory machinery or improve education or health of the population.

 

[oyster]

So the entire cycle is based in a fallacy.

Whereas Johnson's modus operandi is based in phallusy.

 

[flecc]

Very little of the new money is used to stimulate the economy or buy factory machinery or improve education or health of the population.

Exactly, and this among other things is where all those leaders failed. They threw away money rather than invest it. Worst of all was the way the windfall of North Sea oil and gas income was squandered from the late 1970s onwards.

Norway in contrast invested the whole of their oil and gas income, making it possible for them to be an affluent, highly successful socialist country ever since.
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[oyster]

Feast of Imbolic.

Or, for our government, the fake version, Feast of Shambolic.

 

[guerney]

.. Meanwhile , Welcome to the first day of Spring in the Celtic Calendar. Today is La Feile Brid .. or St Brigit's Day, based on the major Feast of Imbolic.

How will you be celebrating? I wonder what the original Pagan traditions were? It's pity we can't ask the long dead Druids, except through dubious seances, so you'll have to do.

Brigid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

La Fheile Bride - February 1st is Saint Brigid’s Day

www.ringsfromireland.com

Brigid unbound

She always wore dazzling white

www.irishtimes.com

 

[Zlatan]

How many past labour movements would Rayner, Nandi, Abbott, Corbyn or even Starmer have risen to higher echelons in.
Say what you like about Blair and Campbell they were at least intelligent, competent, astute and well organised. Both spoke well and would have fitted into any Labour government,even Wilson's who was probably most talented Labour statesman in history.
Saying media is to blame for current Labour's ability or that because they haven't held power they can't be judged is utterly ridiculous. You don't have to give somebody a job to know the can't do it. I was a decent footballer 40 years ago, I didn't need to play for Mufc to know I wasn't good enough.
You don't need to elect a Party to know they couldn't organise the country when they can't even stop arguing amongst themselves.
As for which socialist party I, d vote for. None we have at moment.
Labour Party might as well put Blair back in charge, Starmer is Blair lite.
At least Blair /Campbell/Brown were intelligent.. Don't think any of Labour are at moment. Bring Milliband back from States, tell him to start again, clear the lot out, build a party representative of voters and not one for voters 50 years ago, and I, d vote for it.
Starmer does nothing but appeal to the extreme minority pretending to be champion of underprivileged. He is a terrible leader Woosh. Tories have been in complete disarray past few months. What has Starmer actually done to capitalise. Nothing, OK have a go at PMQ, but nothing at all to fo with how he would have done better on anything.
They are both jokes. Country deserves better than either current Tories or Labour. It's shockingly bad from both.
Why is it Johnson is still in power and his poll results showing improvement. Because Starmer is so bad.

 

[oldgroaner]

The mythical Russian report
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/21/russia-report-reveals-uk-government-failed-to-address-kremlin-interference-scottish-referendum-brexit

 

[oldgroaner]

And for lovers of Fiction this is a corker

The Benefits of Brexit

Unbelievably it runs to 100 pages, without ever being truthful.
A tour de force by all involved

 

[Danidl]

How will you be celebrating? I wonder what the original Pagan traditions were? It's pity we can't ask the long dead Druids, except through dubious seances, so you'll have to do.

Brigid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

La Fheile Bride - February 1st is Saint Brigid’s Day

www.ringsfromireland.com

Brigid unbound

She always wore dazzling white

www.irishtimes.com

Well it was a lovely Spring day, so we travelled to the Village of Carlingford. 28 km distance. which is the tip of the EU and looked across at the UK. Often voted as the most attractive village in the country and a Mecca for Hen parties at weekends, it has a pretend Fjord... It looks like a Fjord, but is actually the gouged outlet from a glacier. The Mournes are to the North and the Cooley Mts ..really hills to the South.
Now the wind would blow one out of it , but otherwise lovely. It was a fully functioning middle ages town with multiple castles , Priories, Abbey, Mint dating from 13 century Norman expansion

 

[jonathan.agnew]

How many past labour movements would Rayner, Nandi, Abbott, Corbyn or even Starmer have risen to higher echelons in.
Say what you like about Blair and Campbell they were at least intelligent, competent, astute and well organised. Both spoke well and would have fitted into any Labour government,even Wilson's who was probably most talented Labour statesman in history.
Saying media is to blame for current Labour's ability or that because they haven't held power they can't be judged is utterly ridiculous. You don't have to give somebody a job to know the can't do it. I was a decent footballer 40 years ago, I didn't need to play for Mufc to know I wasn't good enough.
You don't need to elect a Party to know they couldn't organise the country when they can't even stop arguing amongst themselves.
As for which socialist party I, d vote for. None we have at moment.
Labour Party might as well put Blair back in charge, Starmer is Blair lite.
At least Blair /Campbell/Brown were intelligent.. Don't think any of Labour are at moment. Bring Milliband back from States, tell him to start again, clear the lot out, build a party representative of voters and not one for voters 50 years ago, and I, d vote for it.
Starmer does nothing but appeal to the extreme minority pretending to be champion of underprivileged. He is a terrible leader Woosh. Tories have been in complete disarray past few months. What has Starmer actually done to capitalise. Nothing, OK have a go at PMQ, but nothing at all to fo with how he would have done better on anything.
They are both jokes. Country deserves better than either current Tories or Labour. It's shockingly bad from both.
Why is it Johnson is still in power and his poll results showing improvement. Because Starmer is so bad.

Well nadine dorries agrees with you

Nadine Dorries defends PM’s Keir Starmer smears in ‘cult-like’ interview

Culture secretary insists PM ‘tells the truth’ when she is confronted about the false claims

www.independent.co.uk

And if that isn't good enough, I don't know what is

 

[Woosh]

As for which socialist party I, d vote for. None we have at moment.

I already knew you would not want to vote for the current Labour party, nevermind who leads it. My question was what kind of real socialism you would vote for. In an ideal world that is.

 

[Woosh]

Don't think any of Labour are at moment.

I like Peter Kyle.

Starmer does nothing but appeal to the extreme minority pretending to be champion of underprivileged. He is a terrible leader Woosh.

Starmer is the antidote of Johnson. Decency, respect for political correctness and democracy (as in respect for the same rules for him and ordinary people).

 

[Zlatan]

I already knew you would not want to vote for the current Labour party, nevermind who leads it. My question was what kind of real socialism you would vote for. In an ideal world that is.

Rather hypothetical Woosh.
And since the existence of pure socialist governments are virtually none existent at moment its difficult to suggest a workable model.. So, I, ll modify question a bit.. There are numerous Social Democratic societies that have done well, so perhaps a system along lines of Bolivia, Sweden, Finland???
Could easily be argued our current Government are a model of a social democratic system.???
Is Starmer actually any more a Socialist than Boris??? Look at the size of government, levels of taxation (planned), nationalising certain industries?? Its why Labour are redundant.

 

[Woosh]

Rather hypothetical Woosh.

is there really nothing you like in socialism?

 

[guerney]

brexit is good for my business... can't bite the hand that feeds you,,,

Have you changed your mind since?

 

[Zlatan]

is there really nothing you like in socialism?

Socialism is fine, it's the pretend socialists that let side down.

Why is Labour’s poll lead over the Tories falling?

As undecided voters return to the Conservative fold, Keir Starmer’s advantage is narrowing.

www.newstatesman.com

 

[soundwave]