Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Unless 10% of those Londoners went home to Manchester bto die.
Our deaths are 19.8% lower, so there's still almost 10% to account for. :p

We have very few Mancunians, they do see London as visitors but in my experience they really dislike London and don't hesitate to robustly say so. We've a number of them in this forum I've crossed swords with.

Only just over 40% of London residents are white British born and our huge immigrant population once here, stay here, clinging onto residency, knowing only too well the "any excuse to deport" antics of the Home Office.
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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Quite:

Brexit one year on: so how’s it going?
Those promised rewards for Britain of leaving the European Union should surely be with us by now. What have been the costs and gains of ‘taking our country back’?
 
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oyster

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Just why did so many support him in the first place?

Billionaire Tory backer turns against Johnson following sleaze and scandals
Phones4U boss John Caudwell says he may withdraw support for the party and the prime minister

I hope he goes further and supports non-tories.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I hope he goes further and supports non-tories.
You may get your wish:

Caudwell also warned he would not continue to support the party should it continue to be hit by allegations of sleaze. “Whoever can rule this country properly, in my view, I will vote for,” he said. “I’m not a dyed-in-the-wool Conservative that will stay Conservative. I will vote for anybody that I believe has got the right set of principles to keep Britain great. The Conservative party can’t take my support for granted.”
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Just why did so many support him in the first place?

Billionaire Tory backer turns against Johnson following sleaze and scandals
Phones4U boss John Caudwell says he may withdraw support for the party and the prime minister

I hope he goes further and supports non-tories.
Isn't it heartwarming to know our future is in the hands of wealthy donors rather than voters. A happy reminder that we are a kingdom with an archaic form of indirect representation, not a Republic. a corrupt outdated wart on the face of Europe.
 
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oyster

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Isn't it heartwarming to know our future is in the hands of wealthy opportunist donors rather than voters. A happy reminder that we are a kingdom with an archaic form of indirect representation, not a Republic. a corrupt outdated wart on the face of Europe.
Completely agree.

Some way of limiting individual/corporate doning - whilst not having an excessive impact on smaller parties - is needed. Imagine each donor limited to 1% of annual income (simple number for discussion), then it could disproportionately limit contributions to greens (at least in years past), PC, etc.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,257
30,646
Completely agree.

Some way of limiting individual/corporate doning - whilst not having an excessive impact on smaller parties - is needed. Imagine each donor limited to 1% of annual income (simple number for discussion), then it could disproportionately limit contributions to greens (at least in years past), PC, etc.
Or given that our democracy has failed us, make John Caudwell live up to his fine words by making him dictator for five years.
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soundwave

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Jesus H Christ

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Dec 31, 2020
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Completely agree.

Some way of limiting individual/corporate doning - whilst not having an excessive impact on smaller parties - is needed. Imagine each donor limited to 1% of annual income (simple number for discussion), then it could disproportionately limit contributions to greens (at least in years past), PC, etc.
The principle of donating money to a political party is wrong. Why would anyone do it? It’s not an act of benevolence, for example, giving money to spastics via one of the collection points pictured below. Large political donations are very likely to be made with the expectation that something personally beneficial will come back in return.

The same goes for employing MPs or ministers. Ordinarily, you wouldn’t want one of these clowns anywhere near your business. You might consider hiring one to deal with a particularly stubborn turd in the staff lavatory pan, but that would be as far as it goes. The only other reason anyone would hire a minister / MP is for access to their address book, such as in the case of David Cameron.

The donation system should be stopped and the political parties allocated money from a taxpayer funded pot. Same with jobs, they should only be allowed to earn from public organisations such as the NHS.

45119
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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The principle of donating money to a political party is wrong. Why would anyone do it? It’s not an act of benevolence, for example, giving money to spastics via one of the collection points pictured below. Large political donations are very likely to be made with the expectation that something personally beneficial will come back in return.

The same goes for employing MPs or ministers. Ordinarily, you wouldn’t want one of these clowns anywhere near your business. You might consider hiring one to deal with a particularly stubborn turd in the staff lavatory pan, but that would be as far as it goes. The only other reason anyone would hire a minister / MP is for access to their address book, such as in the case of David Cameron.

The donation system should be stopped and the political parties allocated money from a taxpayer funded pot. Same with jobs, they should only be allowed to earn from public organisations such as the NHS.

View attachment 45119
One of the difficult issues is allocating what is seen to be a fair and equitable amount to each party.

Basing it on last GE results would be giving the tories a lot more than anyone else, thus tending to cement their position.

And when new parties emerge (e.g. Lib Dems from merger, or a completely one)? Especially if the pre-existing parties continue with a rump existence.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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I hope one of the potential candidates has the guts to face them down. Even if you agree that we should not currently change the rules.

Tory MPs warn Boris Johnson’s rivals to oppose tougher Covid new year rules
Leadership hopefuls told to block new limits in England as scientists model curbs on bars and cafes
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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This puts them in a difficult position to fight against Scottish independence.

New poll reveals Scottish Tory MPs would be wiped out in general election amid anger over Downing Street Christmas parties
The survey by Opinium suggests the Tories would lose all six seats and be overtaken by Labour as the second-biggest party by vote share.


The same basic story - PARTY'S OVER DOUGIE - was on Sunday Mail front page but seems to have disappeared from Mail Online.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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One is a comedy film made to create humour and joviality. The other is an ongoing trajedy involving real people in stress, real people trying to help and people actually dying.
I accept in your weed induced stupor it's hard to differentiate the two but just for a moment stop and think about the situation. That doctor complaining is real. People on his ward are going through hell and many needlessly.
Alikening their situation to a Monty Python film says more about you than anything else. Tasteless, crass, uncaring, selfish. Having a laugh at somebody else's suffering. Another new low. Well done SW.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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I hope one of the potential candidates has the guts to face them down. Even if you agree that we should not currently change the rules.

Tory MPs warn Boris Johnson’s rivals to oppose tougher Covid new year rules
Leadership hopefuls told to block new limits in England as scientists model curbs on bars and cafes
Our entire political system needs a rethink and overall. It doesn't really work.
Even if Boris fell over a cure for our situation and had a Eureka moment, I doubt he, d get it through Parliament with the lunatics on his back benches.
Said it before about current Tories but it applies more than ever. Boris is a shambolic mess, his decisions and organisation terrible. He should never be PM.. But he's best they have and we don't have an opposition party... One does seem to be emerging but bolts back behind fence when it sees enormity of problem.
Seems to me ground is being prepared for Liz Truss to be our next "leader",for want of a more accurate word.
 
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Woosh

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But he's best they have and we don't have an opposition party..
so you said but we do have an opposition which is going good for some time now. Both Ed Davey and Kier Starmer are very capable of winning , but you don't want to see that.

Even if Boris fell over a cure for our situation and had a Eureka moment, I doubt he, d get it through Parliament with the lunatics on his back benches.
that same lunatic bunch as you put it is responsible for hard brexit and for BJ to become tory leader, beating a more capable Jeremy Hunt. The tory party is paid for and owned by a few very rich individuals only interested in low tax and deregulations. If people like you just see it for what it is, we'll have a much better anti-tory coalition government.
 

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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so you said but we do have an opposition which is going good for some time now. Both Ed Davey and Kier Starmer are very capable of winning , but you don't want to see that.


that same lunatic bunch as you put it is responsible for hard brexit and for BJ to become tory leader, beating a more capable Jeremy Hunt. The tory party is paid for and owned by a few very rich individuals only interested in low tax and deregulations. If people like you just see it for what it is, we'll have a much better anti-tory coalition government.
I don't think that is actually disagreeing with what I, m saying.
Unless you see all that as acceptable, which somehow I guess you don't.
Boris presented as an almost acceptable face of Conservatism and to be fair it has proven to be the most socially minded, high tax, big government in Tory history.
As for Starmer / Ed Davey being capable of winning. When? Proved not the case not long ago and we have 3 years yet.
Perhaps if Labour hadn't gone down the Woke Avenue, which Starmer still champions, perhaps if Party was united they might stand a chance.. But I doubt it. We need the system and Labour to change.
I, m telling you Woosh, Starmer will never be PM.
And as for people like me? Who exactly is that? Black? Mixed race? Big? Fat? Not a very socially minded comment from a person like you. A rich socialist, who made his money through capitalism. Very ironic.
Or very Starmer.
And pray tell me how do we achieve your coalition Government? Tories resign perhaps.
 
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