Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Can someone help me out here...
I'm looking for the original data that gave the chart above. I can see its from ICNARC, so I go here:
https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
I download the top 'related files'
And it does seem to have some information:
"Figure 27. Percentage of admissions to criƟcal care with confirmed COVID-19 by vaccinaƟon status for paƟents admiƩed 1 May 2021 to 15 November
2021 compared with the general populaƟon"

However looking at that, I'd say its showing that while back in May, there indeed did seem to be around 75% of the critically ill being on the unvaccinated category, but as of Nov, it now seems to show about 45% unvaccinated, while around 50% are the double jabbed
??
Why the discrepancy with the graph Zlatan posted ??

View attachment 45100

Looking just at the graphs you have presented . There are a a few obvious points.
1. The absolute number of single jabbed persons drops with time , and is now vanishingly small. That is to be expected, as having taken one jab, they are likely to complete the sequence . About 10% of the population is single jabbed
2. Numbers in hospital s are about 50% fully vaccinated and 50% totally unvaxxed. But the unvaxxed are according to that gold line, at about 10% of the population .. so 1/2 the critical care patients in November come from 10% of the population. And 50% are coming from the 80+%

 

[guerney]

View attachment 45095

Doug Ericksen, state senator who fought vaccine mandates, dies at 52

Washington Republican and Trump supporter who opposed pandemic emergency orders said he tested positive for Covid in El Salvador

www.theguardian.com

 

[Danidl]

Of course it's not a conspiracy, they are all stuck with the inability of the vaccines to prevent infection, so have to lean back on the antigenic effects for their reduced benefit.



Perhaps you'd like to list those that need a jab every three months?



Yet no measles, mumps or rubella epidemics once people are jabbed, they all promptly virtually disappear, unlike Covid-19 after Pfizer. So no, I don't agree.
.

"Yet no measles, mumps or rubella epidemics once people are jabbed, they all promptly virtually disappear, unlike Covid-19 after Pfizer. So no, I don't agree."
The reason they are not prevelent is because the suppression by vaccination is sufficient to stop them getting a critical mass and getting Ro greater than 1 . When numbers start to grow in local outbreaks public health authorities immediately jump in

Now the Covid Vaccines don't need to be replenished every 3rd month .... The data is showing that they are only down to say 80% antibodies of their peak value. It might be a better idea and use of resources to have moved those doses to Africa
.

 

[flecc]

Whole UK:
Infection rate 881.7 per 100,000
82.1% with both vaccines
55% with booster
Death Rate 1.1 per 100,000
Hospitalisation in last 7 days = 67 per 100,000

Borough of Lambeth in London:
Infection rate 4247 per 100,000
59.6% with both vaccines
33.4% with booster
Death Rate 0.6 per 100,000
Hospitalisation in last 7 days = 17.7 per 100,000

All at today 23/12/2021

Compare item by item to see the benefit of prior infection immunity, massive infection rate not meaning high deaths or high hospitalisation.
.

 

[flecc]

The reason they are not prevelent is because the suppression by vaccination is sufficient to stop them getting a critical mass and getting Ro greater than 1 .

The reason isn't relevant to my point, that the MMR is more effective than the Covid vaccines at preventing infection, not less effective as you claimed. And the MMR doesnt need repeating every three months, in practice it's for life.
.

 

[soundwave]

and im still not dead if this new strain is so transmissible why cant i catch it ? or any of the others in 2 years!.

if you want to take a drug with no long term testing every 3 months you are off ur rocker

 

[GLJoe]

if you want to take a drug with no long term testing every 3 months you are off ur rocker

 

[soundwave]

did anyone else get these letters? as sent me a $hit load telling me to sit in a box in the attic

https://flic.kr/p/2k5CNuc

 

[GLJoe]

Looking just at the graphs you have presented . There are a a few obvious points.
1. The absolute number of single jabbed persons drops with time , and is now vanishingly small. That is to be expected, as having taken one jab, they are likely to complete the sequence . About 10% of the population is single jabbed
2. Numbers in hospital s are about 50% fully vaccinated and 50% totally unvaxxed. But the unvaxxed are according to that gold line, at about 10% of the population .. so 1/2 the critical care patients in November come from 10% of the population. And 50% are coming from the 80+%

I don't disagree with what you are saying here, but what I was specifically questioning was Zlatan's statement (and the statements from doctors and journalists that he linked to) that 80% of the people in ICUs are unvaccinated.

You yourself have looked at the data from the graph I showed (from the icnarc) and concluded that its about 50/50.
Yet the graph Zlatan posted was ALSO supposed to have been created from icnarc data.
How come your (and my) interpretation of the data says its around 50/50, but all these other places are effectively saying its the unvaccinated that are clogging up the ICU's - "Covid patients in ICU now almost all unvaccinated, says Oxford scientist" etc

it would seem that either you and I have both misinterpreted the data (in which case I'd really like to know where we've gone wrong to avoid making the same mistake in the future), or the other sources (the guardian, the times, 'full fact', Zlatan himself) appear to be disseminating misleading information.
Its seems sensible to understand what's going on here. I for one would like to know whether I can trust the information coming from mainstream media sources, because at the moment, looking at things like the above, I'm unsure.

 

[Danidl]

The reason isn't relevant to my point, that the MMR is more effective than the Covid vaccines at preventing infection, not less effective as you claimed. And the MMR doesnt need repeating every three months, in practice it's for life.
.

Don't take my word in respect of effectivity of MMR ... Use CDC and WHO data instead. . There are other vaccines which requires multiple jabs , periodic updates, and have less effectiveness than the Covid pre Delta .
The point is not that the Covid vaccines are useless after 3 months, it is that their antibody levels has decreased to maybe 75% to 80% of peak value and may indeed continue to fall ... although we actually really don't have long term data to support or deny that. We are just now celebrating a mere year of large scale first jabs. In this the Covid vaccines may be no better or worse than the Flu vaccines, which have huge seasonal variation ... We call winter the "Flu season ", so we don't need to bother to re vaccinate in April.
My statement that collectively we might be better off in double jabbing more of the global population rather than selectively treble jabbing or quadruple jabbing a selected cohort , was a serious comment. Especially if it transpires that Omnicon infection is minor for those double jabbed or already recovered

 

[GLJoe]

The suggestion by some is that we should take it "to bowel tolerance" - as much as we can ingest without actually ending up unable to move from the WC. Then drop very slightly.

I think that is crazy.

Been thinking about your reply.
Why exactly do you think its crazy ?

 

[GLJoe]

And at my last GP interaction I was offered amitriptyline (no, thank you very much!) but had to argue strongly for a levothyroxine increase from 100 to 112.5.

That's interesting.
I've noted that quite a few people here seem to take the opinion of 'Normal people aren't qualified to make judgements on medical issues ... we should all just listen to our qualified doctors and do what they advise'
Are you someone who doesn't agree with that viewpoint?

 

[GLJoe]

One where you don't become so bloated that you fall over.

Seriously we are all too different for any one diet to be correct for all. One's diet needs to be tailored to suit. To be healthy and balanced it needs to include a very wide range of foods but with every component in moderation. Ultimately every food is a poison when in sufficient excess.
.

I don't disagree with what you've said above, however I asked my original question about 'what constitutes a balanced diet' just to try and tease out what some people think is adequate.
Because my suspicion is that what many (most?) people consider to be balanced and healthy, is still way, WAY too low in certain things.

I mean ... I bet NOBODY here eats enough fiber! (me included!!)

And I was very curious to follow up on the Vitamin C part of the conversation as well (hence my reply to Oyster)

 

[Zlatan]

I don't disagree with what you've said above, however I asked my original question about 'what constitutes a balanced diet' just to try and tease out what some people think is adequate.
Because my suspicion is that what many (most?) people consider to be balanced and healthy, is still way, WAY too low in certain things.

I mean ... I bet NOBODY here eats enough fiber! (me included!!)

And I was very curious to follow up on the Vitamin C part of the conversation as well (hence my reply to Oyster)

If Chris Witty, Stephen Powys, Jonathon Van Tam, NHS, JCVI, Mhra, your doctor and every consultant you met told you what a balanced diet was would you believe them?

Government accepts JCVI advice on COVID-19 vaccination programme

Health and Social Care Secretary Sajid Javid accepted advice from the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) on Wednesday 22 December 2021.

www.gov.uk

 

[soundwave]

That's interesting.
I've noted that quite a few people here seem to take the opinion of 'Normal people aren't qualified to make judgements on medical issues ... we should all just listen to our qualified doctors and do what they advise'
Are you someone who doesn't agree with that viewpoint?

do as your told! nope, well here is a sanction, that's nice thank you very much work coach
https://flic.kr/p/Y5Dn5u
9 months later. it get my revenge for there stupidity thinking they can push me about like a good little sheep and was over in 9mins my defence based on law was that good, the dwp never even bothered to show up pmsl

https://flic.kr/p/YDtAHA
work coach and line manager got the sack for gross misconduct in public office as had no reason based on law to raise a sanction doubt in the fist place.

i came they saw i kicked there ass!

 

[oyster]

Been thinking about your reply.
Why exactly do you think its crazy ?

Because it causes other gut problems - if everything is rushing by at high speed, it doesn't have the chance to be digested properly and then for absorption to happen properly. Some substances might still be absorbed as well as ever, but others won't. Can also affect the microbiome.

 

[GLJoe]

If Chris Witty, Stephen Powys, Jonathon Van Tam... told you what a balanced diet was would you believe them?

Well - thinking on that question:
Since we know that one's susceptibility to disease is directly linked to diet, and since we are told that we're in a world wide crisis with this current deadly pandemic, I would expect those three esteemed experts to have copious information made available to the general public (It probably should be their number 1 priority!), so I'll go and look at what they've said, and I'll get back to you.

If ... NHS, ... your doctor and every consultant you met told you what a balanced diet was would you believe them?

I can answer that one.
By default - Not a chance!
The average doctor is usually excellent at a lot of things, but nutrition isn't one of them! Its not their fault. Its how/what they are taught (or rather ... what they are NOT taught)
And as for the NHS recommendations - I know from previously having looked this stuff up, the information is woefully inadequate. I mean ... lets just see shall we:
"How much vitamin C do I need?
Adults aged 19 to 64 need 40mg of vitamin C a day"

Hmmm. 40mg eh? Maybe 'need to avoid scurvy' would be an acceptable answer, otherwise its about a factor of 100 out! That's practically criminal advice.

How about VitD ?
They are recommending 400iu
My god ... even Anthony Fauci has gone on record admitting he takes 4000iu of D every day !!

And what's worse .. on the NHS page it says:
"There have been some reports about vitamin D reducing the risk of coronavirus (COVID-19). But there is currently not enough evidence to support taking vitamin D solely to prevent or treat COVID-19"

when what it really should say is something along the lines of:
'there is now overwhelming scientific evidence showing correlation between low vitamin D and deaths due to Covid and other diseases. While correlation does not necessarily imply causation, we recommend most adults take a minimum of 4000iu a day as a safe, precautionary measure'

But no. No mention of any advice like that. Again. that's virtually criminal!

 

[Zlatan]

BBC News At Ten.
Headlines just for GiJoe.
Two thirds of ICU Covid patients are unvaccinated. (in the 12 out of 16 primary cares contacted) But you don't believe that either. Royal Liverpool says 80% of their ICU covid patients are unvaccinated. And statistically that is quite amazing since, I believe, we are now approaching 85% fully vaccinated.(well 2 vaccines, which is considered fully vaccinated for Delta, but think they are changing definition)
But, they are lying ofcourse. Not sure why Royal Liverpool Hospital statisticians are lying... But there you go.
No doubt GI has done some research showing them all to be liars.
GiJoe, why don't you contact BBC and demand to know their source of such corrupted biased reporting?
That single report on TV should be enough for the most biased anti vaxxers to think"Hang on a minute, the vaccine has kept folk out of ICUs" but it won't. No changing your mind now.
In the face of overwhelming evidence what is needed is a massive dose of single minded ignorant pig headedness, and we certainly have that in abundance.
Ofcourse the vaccines are dangerous and don't work.My mate Soundwave, a bloke at work and somebody on Facebook has told me.
If I were unvaccinated at moment suspect I, d be quite worried. Suspect all this anti vax talk is a massive defence mechanism, in the forlorn hope anti vaxxers are not making biggest mistake of their lives.
Good luck GI, you are braver than me matey.
I, m pretty sure I, d now be thinking "well, to be on safe side, just in case I, m talking bo!! 0x,I,ll go and have a jab"
I suspect all anti vaxxers are thinking that way going to sleep tonight. If they aren't. They should be.

 

[GLJoe]

Because it causes other gut problems - if everything is rushing by at high speed, it doesn't have the chance to be digested properly and then for absorption to happen properly. Some substances might still be absorbed as well as ever, but others won't. Can also affect the microbiome.

Ok, I can agree with the above - having the $hits constantly is bad ;-)

However whenever I've heard the advice on VitC dosage and working up to bowel tolerance, what they tell you to do is to SLOWLY work up, day by day over some weeks (that's really important!), until you do start to then get loose stools, then you back off so you DON'T get the runs.
There is only one day or so when you might get an issue, but then you know where you are max dosage wise, and you're good to go. This is on my list of things to do shortly

Super high dosing can be in the hundreds of thousands of grams per day with amazing results. However that has to be administered intravenously! (I shudder to think what might happen if you tried that orally LOL)
Most people can get up to around 20g per day via tablet/powder. But 4-6g per day seems a sensible minimum target to aim for from what I've read (spread out over the day - not all in one go!)

 

[oyster]

That's interesting.
I've noted that quite a few people here seem to take the opinion of 'Normal people aren't qualified to make judgements on medical issues ... we should all just listen to our qualified doctors and do what they advise'
Are you someone who doesn't agree with that viewpoint?

I certainly do not agree with it.

In some areas, doctors are pretty good. In others, they can be dreadful.