Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

Oyster, there must be a certain fraction of the population who cannot for valid medical reasons be vaccinated. However ,I have no idea what those conditions are, and why they cannot be vaccinated. However it must be very possible for the appropriate authorities to flag up this cohort and list it in the official data. Unless they have been informed by the competent medical consultant, they are self diagnosing, and are actually in the egotist grouping.

I spend much time prompting those who have had bad reactions to put in Yellow Card reports. Quite a number have done so. It is, of course, vitally important that this is done.

Imagine you have a disorder, and you are in contact with many who have the same disorder. Initially, all are willing to receive the vaccine (whether the initial doses or a "booster") and they start to do so.

As time passes, maybe 80% of those who have had a vaccine report extremely similar and significantly nasty adverse reactions. These worsen the people's original, known disorder and make the medication taken for that change in effect. (Flip-flopping between under- and over-dosed.)

Everything about this is new, so it is impossible for the medical people to confidently reassure people. (Unless they just speak the words without the supporting medicine and science.) They might find analogous cases across other disorders, they might start looking further. They might do everything right. But people are people. At some point they will bail out. Very likely before the establishment has collected the necessary information and done the required analysis.

Remember, these same people have, by and large, already gone through the original vaccinations and supported each other in doing so. They are not intrinsically vaccine averse. Nor "it can't happen to me" people - why, if they had thought that earlier in their lives, they have learned the hard way they are not immune to anything through getting their existing disorder. They desperately do not want to get Covid.

 

[oyster]

It seems it's just a repeat of what Nadim Zahawi was saying on Marr this morning. More urging to get the third dose and panicking about Omicron.

But no more restrictions to be announced.
.

Alert level rises to 4 but no more restrictions? Seems odd.

 

[flecc]

Alert level rises to 4 but no more restrictions? Seems odd.

I think they are getting scared of pushing the public too hard, belatedly waking up to how it provokes opposition. So more of the voluntary effort, like their request for people to work at home.

Cheaper too, not having to pay people to be off work.
.

 

[Nev]

My 13 year old grandson that lives with us started with a cough on Thursday, he had Covid around half term in October but had no symptoms, but wife thought best to test him before he went to school. She give him LFT and it was negative, so we assumed he had a cold.

He was still coughing yesterday and wife didn't like the sound of his cough thought it sounded different to normal cold so gave him another LFT, although it was not clearly positive it was what she described as iffy. We contacted test and trace and they told us to book a PCR test for him which he took yesterday evening.

We had the results this morning and he was positive, we were not surprised because his coughing did sound unusual. The cough is the only symptom he has, he hasn't got a headache or sore throat, and he still has normal sense of taste and smell.

As soon as his PCR test result came through this morning my wife and I both booked PCR tests, we are lucky there is a test center less than half a mile away from our house. Hopefully we will get our results tomorrow morning. We both feel a little fuzzy headed but that might be psychosomatic. I think its around 50/50 if either of us are positive too, we both have had our boosters.

We assume that my grandson has the Delta variant because they will usually tell you if its Omicron, however I have heard of people being notified they have Covid and it can be a day or two later that they are told it is Omicron.

When my grandson had it in October (if he really had it), my wife did 3 LFT tests on him that were all negative it was only the PCR test that came back positive and he had no symptoms. So not sure if that meant he only had a very mild case of it or if the PCR test was false.

In a way I'm rather hoping he has had the Omicron and that we have it too to get it out of the way as it were as I have a feeling most of us are going to get Omicron over the next couple of months. If it's Delta then that means we are likely to still likely to catch Omicron in the not too distant future.

 

[Danidl]

I spend much time prompting those who have had bad reactions to put in Yellow Card reports. Quite a number have done so. It is, of course, vitally important that this is done.

Imagine you have a disorder, and you are in contact with many who have the same disorder. Initially, all are willing to receive the vaccine (whether the initial doses or a "booster") and they start to do so.

As time passes, maybe 80% of those who have had a vaccine report extremely similar and significantly nasty adverse reactions. These worsen the people's original, known disorder and make the medication taken for that change in effect. (Flip-flopping between under- and over-dosed.)

Everything about this is new, so it is impossible for the medical people to confidently reassure people. (Unless they just speak the words without the supporting medicine and science.) They might find analogous cases across other disorders, they might start looking further. They might do everything right. But people are people. At some point they will bail out. Very likely before the establishment has collected the necessary information and done the required analysis.

Remember, these same people have, by and large, already gone through the original vaccinations and supported each other in doing so. They are not intrinsically vaccine averse. Nor "it can't happen to me" people - why, if they had thought that earlier in their lives, they have learned the hard way they are not immune to anything through getting their existing disorder. They desperately do not want to get Covid.

Look my son had a very miserable experience for the 2 or 3 days after the first AZ shot, He referred to it as almost as bad as his ICU experience. But that did not stop him getting his other shots, enthusiastically. This is because he knew and knows that Covid would be the death of him. ..35% Lung function doesn't give much leeway. My Brother in Law with Kidney transplant and multiple minor cancers equally enthusiastic. So really I am asking what conditions make vaccination medically counterproductive?.
I fully understand that our knowledge base is incomplete ...it always will be, but considering that there are already 8000,000,000 doses in arms, , what is the current fatality rate. This always was about risk management.

 

[oldgroaner]

My guess as to De Piffles replacement

Tweet of the Day

From the caravan at Fircombe Hall ™@Dean24148909
· 1h
I just farted so hard and long that my voice recognition software wrote a Daily Mail article.

 

[oyster]

So really I am asking what conditions make vaccination medically counterproductive?.

Two or three days of feeling rubbish would be nothing.

I'm referring to several weeks of non-stop unwellness. And the feeling that their existing disorder, which had been just about tolerable, had escaped from control. It has often taken people years to reach the sort-of level they had achieved before the vaccine. Losing that is a

Symptoms include vomiting, high temperature, painful shoulder.

 

[Danidl]

Two or three days of feeling rubbish would be nothing.

I'm referring to several weeks of non-stop unwellness. And the feeling that their existing disorder, which had been just about tolerable, had escaped from control. It has often taken people years to reach the sort-of level they had achieved before the vaccine. Losing that is a

Symptoms include vomiting, high temperature, painful shoulder.

Again and with respect, is this professionally recognised or self diagnosis? " Unwellness " can be anything from nearly comotose to self indulgent whining..... My son is seriously unwell every day.

 

[oyster]

Again and with respect, is this professionally recognised or self diagnosis? " Unwellness " can be anything from nearly comotose to self indulgent whining..... My son is seriously unwell every day.

Afraid I have remarkably little faith in professionals recognising almost anything that isn't highlighted in their training. (Some are brilliant. This isn't a case of knocking all doctors.)

I've spent much of the past twenty years involved deeply in these disorders. As have many of the people who are witnessing issues. If anyone is likely to self-indulgently whine, it is me. Not them. (I had next to zero issues, overall, with all three. I did a Yellow Card for the AZ because of a specific issue I had which, though mild, I felt needed to be recorded.)

And autoimmune disorders can be very funny buggers.

 

[Danidl]

Afraid I have remarkably little faith in professionals recognising almost anything that isn't highlighted in their training. (Some are brilliant. This isn't a case of knocking all doctors.)

I've spent much of the past twenty years involved deeply in these disorders. As have many of the people who are witnessing issues. If anyone is likely to self-indulgently whine, it is me. Not them. (I had next to zero issues, overall, with all three. I did a Yellow Card for the AZ because of a specific issue I had which, though mild, I felt needed to be recorded.)

And autoimmune disorders can be very funny buggers.

I can to a certain amount concur that consultants will be highly specialised and unable to relate outside their precise area... Perhaps its extreme caution. However Not so much with GPs ..or maybe I have been lucky so far. But I am also very strongly against self diagnosis

 

[oyster]

I can to a certain amount concur that consultants will be highly specialised and unable to relate outside their precise area... Perhaps its extreme caution. However Not so much with GPs ..or maybe I have been lucky so far. But I am also very strongly against self diagnosis

The person I most often think about when discussing things was seen by six or seven consultants - none of whom had the slightest idea of her major issue, the one for which she had been referred.

She self-diagnosed, requested referral to another specialty (one that was not obvious from the symptoms) and got a provisional diagnosis. She was then seen by between twenty and thirty other doctors (including consultants) and received a 100% concurrence with her own diagnosis.

I effectively diagnosed myself - confirmed later by GP.

Why, I even diagnosed my own impacted wisdom teeth - my then dentist saying she didn't think it at all likely. Until she did a panoramic X-ray - which she did only because I was convinced.

 

[guerney]

As an overweight person, I don't want to hear this either:

The Coronavirus Attacks Fat Tissue, Scientists Find

The research may help explain why people who are overweight and obese have been at higher risk of severe illness and death from Covid.

www.nytimes.com

SARS-CoV-2 infects human adipose tissue and elicits an inflammatory response consistent with severe COVID-19

The COVID-19 pandemic, caused by the viral pathogen SARS-CoV-2, has taken the lives of millions of individuals around the world. Obesity is associated with adverse COVID-19 outcomes, but the underlying mechanism is unknown. In this report, we demonstrate that human adipose tissue from multiple...

www.biorxiv.org

1.5 stones more to lose, lost three and a bit...

 

[jonathan.agnew]

As an overweight person, I don't want to hear this either:

The Coronavirus Attacks Fat Tissue, Scientists Find

The research may help explain why people who are overweight and obese have been at higher risk of severe illness and death from Covid.

www.nytimes.com

SARS-CoV-2 infects human adipose tissue and elicits an inflammatory response consistent with severe COVID-19

The COVID-19 pandemic, caused by the viral pathogen SARS-CoV-2, has taken the lives of millions of individuals around the world. Obesity is associated with adverse COVID-19 outcomes, but the underlying mechanism is unknown. In this report, we demonstrate that human adipose tissue from multiple...

www.biorxiv.org

1.5 stones more to lose, lost three and a bit...

Congrats - fwiw I found distraction (long slow runs in moonlight on country roads for its own sake, hobbies, even work relationships, friendship) the best way to shift weight. Avoid getting preoccupied with it, or going into battle with it. Simply distract (in my case its mostly boredom and existential malaise that fuel the eating anyway). Oddly the same approach worked best when cold turkeying cigarettes and booze (regardless of what authorities say about using support and placebos)

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Alert level rises to 4 but no more restrictions? Seems odd.

A new piece of evidence relating to Downing Street Christmas parties emerged yesterday. It’s to distract you from looking in that direction, nothing at all to do with your welfare.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Formula 1. Lewis Hamilton had a 12 second lead in the GP with 5 laps to go. His closest rival wasn’t making any impression on that lead. It seems wrong that because the driver of a wheeled advertising hoarding lost control and crashed it, the win should be handed to the second placed man.

I used the words, handed to, deliberately. The decision to allow some lapped cars through, but not others, could have had no other outcome other than a win for the second placed man. The decision was effectively to award the world championship to Verstappen. I saw it in real time, so the stewards must have seen it too. Allowing the lapped cars between second and third place through could have altered the outcome. That would have allowed Carlos Sainz to race Verstappen thus not allowing him a free unobstructed attack on Hamilton. That would have been a slightly more natural outcome.

I‘m not a fan of Verstappen or Hamilton, but I don’t think the natural result was achieved yesterday. It seems very synthetic and an entirely unsatisfactory end to an otherwise interesting season of racing.

 

[Nev]

Wife and I both had negative PCR result this morning. Very impressed with testing system. Booked test on line yesterday morning for 11:30 drove straight in and were dealt with straight away all well organise. Results sent to us this morning around 6:30.

 

[Nev]

I‘m not a fan of Verstappen or Hamilton, but I don’t think the natural result was achieved yesterday. It seems very synthetic and an entirely unsatisfactory end to an otherwise interesting season of racing.

I agree, where does it say in the rules that you let the 5 lapped cars between fist and second place through but not any of the other lapped cars through. They take their lead from our PM who makes the rules up as he goes along and ignores them if they don’t suit him.

 

[Zlatan]

A new piece of evidence relating to Downing Street Christmas parties emerged yesterday. It’s to distract you from looking in that direction, nothing at all to do with your welfare.

I, ve said that all along. Do something wrong voters are doing themselves or don't see as important, feed info slowly to Starmer then release footage filmed by the miscrients themselves.. Starmer, media and many on here have fallen for it.. All up in arms about a quiz, party and get together from 12 months ago...
Mean time dodgy deals with Pfizer (no publishing of results???), failing vaccines, failing booster roll out and Omicron allowed to catch bus into UK.. Hardly a word.
Nothing will come of all arguing, protests, police reports and endless disgust on here. Boris has just weathered Storm. Yep, dropped a lot in polls but so what. We are years from GE..
Labour took bait hook line and sinker. Starmer has done job for them.
It's all been one great big distraction technique. Tories are masters at it.

 

[Zlatan]

I agree, where does it say in the rules that you let the 5 lapped cars between fist and second place through but not any of the other lapped cars through. They take their lead from our PM who makes the rules up as he goes along and ignores them if they don’t suit him.

Yep, all very odd. Massi wanted a racing finish for media... He did break rules. Should have let all cars unlap or none. He just moved ones in Verstappens way. But Merc were caught sleeping. I was thinking from lap 30 all RBR need is a safety car to close gap.
Been able to change tyres under safety car (and red flag) is utterly ridiculous. A pit stop should be equal for all. Under race conditions its about 23 secs. Under safety car it's 12 or so. Under red flag its zero. How on earth is that fair. Crazy.

 

[oyster]

Wife and I both had negative PCR result this morning. Very impressed with testing system. Booked test on line yesterday morning for 11:30 drove straight in and were dealt with straight away all well organise. Results sent to us this morning around 6:30.

Do you know if your PCR was done at a lab that can detect all Omicron variants? There was a point at which it was said only around 35% of tests were picking up Omicron.