Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

I dislocated and broke my wrist recently, is there any issue with me getting the booster? I was about to book online before a biggish badger jumped out in front of my bike:

Unavoidable Bicycle Badger Collision

Broke my wrist in two places, plus dislocated it to such an extent that it was hanging on by a thread. In hospital since Thursday - plate fitted, but only after two very painful attempts to put the wrist back in place (under local anaesthetic) - but because the "Ball" joint had broken, it kept...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Definitely get both the Booster and the 'flu vaccine as soon as possible, they won't delay the healing of your wrist. Both can be had together if you find somewhere offering both.

And of course you can have the jabs in the other arm from your injury if you wish. The slight soreness from the jabs may even detract from the irritation of the plastic cast that you've been suffering.
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[flecc]

Of course in that context you are correct and we are in agreement. But Internet usage is equating "Natural Immunity " as that which is acquired during a live infection from the full active Virus . They are trying to make a distinction between that and an "unnatural" immunity from a vaccine. The inference and subtext is that ."...unnatural is bad, natural is good ,so get the full infection .. therefore be antivax. ".

Of course, that is why I've so often included in my posts that everyone should get the vaccine, to stop the anti-vaxxers from quoting me.
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[Zlatan]

You may reasonably say so... But that is not immunity,it is statistical chance. Just like fleccs entire family could smoke like chimneys for decades and not succumb to cancer , whereas others have no such luck. . Just some people have better genetic makeup against certain diseases and others don't. You would have to measure the antibodies of everyone on earth who has not yet had a chance of being exposed to Covid, and PCR test them,to make that assertion.
Even known genetic defects can impart evolutionary advantages under certain circumstances. Cystic Fibrosis , with which I am somewhat familiar has been postulated as protecting against certain illnesses TB and Cholera , while allowing others to thrive.

Statistical chance doesn't cut it Danidl and its actually quite negative.
Is it statistics that children (generally) cope and don't even develop symptoms.?
Statistics play a part in a person's exposure but once exposed (as I, d guess we all have been now) suggests some have coping mechanisms and many don't.
Where are the statistics involved in the wife of an infected person never developing symptoms but her husband dies having spent all their time together. There is something going on, either with prior exposure or natural ability to fend off infection. I, m not making assumptions, in fact you are. Is it down to pure chance some just survive? Ofcourse not. The ones surviving have an edge in some respect, be it diet, pre existing exposure, genetics, lifestyle, build or metabolic rate. Putting it down to chance is as putting it down to God's will in 1665.I hope we, ve moved on since then.
We actually need to know exactly why some, irrespective of exposure rates, do not develop covid.

 

[flecc]

The rate of decay of this immunity is not known with any certainty, but there are multiple cases of persons who have contracted Covid a second time after having apparently recovered.

Those who achieve acquired immunity from an inactivated virus or an mRNA , have an immunity with extremely low side effects , and has a known decaying immune response. The evidence based on the billions of people already vaccinated is that the decay rate is such that after about 6 month post 2nd jab . , The protection against infection is 2.3 times worse than at peak protection and by about 9 to 10 months is 2.8 times worse. There is for obvious reasons ,no data relating to longer protection. This is why the health authorities are currently recommending a third jab.
The current situation is that about 50% of the global population have been at least partially vaccinated , that is 7.8 Billion doses, so the statistics on efficacy is building fast. Whereas the total number of confirmed Covid sufferers is a mere 260 million . This means that statistics for infection in vaccinated people ( breakover infection) will be more reliable than for second infections in unvaccinated people . USA statistics were claiming 0.005% probability of reinfection There is no strong evidence that those previous infected are significantly less susceptible to a second infection than those who have been vaccinated. In either case the rates are low,and the vast majority of seriously ill patients are the non vaccinated Your hospital data confirms that.
Now returning to your figures , there are 10 Million UK people who have already been infected , and are rather unlikely to be reinfected again yet. Since London was the first hit area if the UK, there will be statistically more of them per head of population. There are 65% of Londoners who are vaccinated ,and are unlikely to be infected. If you combine those factors you might explain any current London bonus.
If your thesis is that getting hit hard first, reduces the current rate ...well of course it does.Dead people remain dead. If your thesis is that getting hit first was an advantage, I really dispute that,. If your thesis is that the existence of a low grade Covid intensity in the miasma of the London air , somehow imparted a level of immunity by osmosis ... Well if only that were true!.

Since I first replied quoting your original post, you've added the above very substantial edit, so I quote it to show that it has been read.

But once again I have to reply that such evidence from elsewhere isn't relevant, there are too many differences for valid comparisons to be made. That is why I've stuck to my country and specifically its capital of London.

You've similarly often replied to me with evidence from Ireland, north or south. So to show what I mean by irrelevance, London's population density is just under 6000 per square kilometre.

All of Irelands is 80 per square kilometre.

You have 75 sq. km. each, most of it countryside.

We in London have 0.0006 sq.km. each, most of it brick, concrete and tarmac.

In the 3 acres where I live with some 150 others, we have 0.00008 sq.km. each.

Try social distancing here.
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[Jesus H Christ]

Who do you think is running this country?

Santa of course.

 

[flecc]

Santa of course.

He has a rival in Black Friday though.
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[Jesus H Christ]

He has a rival in Black Friday though.
.

To nick a phrase from Polly, Black Friday is BS.
It’s a bigger con than Brexit.

 

[flecc]

Omicron is the new official name for the "Botswana" variant.

Belgian officials have confirmed it has already been detected there. Should be with us by tomorrow afternoon's Eurostar.
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[flecc]

To nick a phrase from Polly, Black Friday is BS.
It’s a bigger con than Brexit.

.
POLLY's last post was September 10th, over two and a half months ago.

You can guess what I'm thinking has happened to that 65 year old male from Chesterfield.
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[Jesus H Christ]

Omicron is the new official name for the "Botswana" variant.

Belgian officials have confirmed it has already been detected there. Should be with us by tomorrow afternoon's Eurostar.
.

It will have been here for at least a week. We will announce that it’s out of control in about 14 days time.

 

[flecc]

Brexit, for once some facts.

I dislocated and broke my wrist recently, is there any issue with me getting the booster? I was about to book online before a biggish badger jumped out in front of my bike: https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/unavoidable-bicycle-badger-collision.42374/ Definitely get both the Booster...

www.pedelecs.co.uk

Welcome back POLLY after your extended two and a half month absence.

How was it in the ICU?
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[Danidl]

Not entirely convinced. We have seen several reports of people who have very obviously been exposed to Covid but have not fallen ill. It is difficult, maybe impossible, to be sure why. But it seems entirely feasible that some people do have a difference in their immune system which makes it so. Whether that is strictly natural, or acquired from some other direction, who knows? We've seen numerous suggestions that some other coronavirus diseases might result in a degree of immunity to Covid.

If you read my response to flecc, you can see what I am alluding to. That you are choosing to call immunity, is what I would call susceptibility, and we all have this to differing degrees.
The only way to test for immunity is the time honoured way of testing. You take a population had infect them or at least expose them to the L50, dose of pathogen, and the people who have zero ill effects are naturally immune.. But that is a bit extreme.

 

[Zlatan]

If you read my response to flecc, you can see what I am alluding to. That you are choosing to call immunity, is what I would call susceptibility, and we all have this to differing degrees.
The only way to test for immunity is the time honoured way of testing. You take a population had infect them or at least expose them to the L50, dose of pathogen, and the people who have zero ill effects are naturally immune.. But that is a bit extreme.

You are contradicting yourself, the scenario you describe is happening all the time. People are being exposed, and in some cases to very high levels, yet show no or little ill effects. Calling it Immunity or lack of susceptibility is semantics. If after severe exposure you don't become infected your body for one reason or another has either prevented infection developing or dealt with it so well to not demonstrate symptoms. That has been happening throughout the pandemic. Months ago I remember listening to a doctor suggesting 20% of those infected would be asymptomatic. They must be dealing with infection,and others when exposed to high levels don't even become infected, Your good luck, chance theory simply does not answer either scenario. Yes, it's a chance thing whether an individual is in that 20% but why is completely different. There must be biological reasons, otherwise it simply would not occur.
Ideally vaccine would prevent infection in first place or short of that give us all ability to deal with it asympomatically. Perhaps we should be looking why many are already in those groups. (no doubt some are examining reasons)

 

[soundwave]

in my local shop that is not very big at all it is run buy 3 members of staff all from the same family one is 23, 46 and 72.

they serve 100s of customers a day and round here no one wears a mask even from the start and none of them has got covid and been open every day since this crap started and to this day they dont know anyone that has died from it.

none of them have had the jab or is going to get one as if it was a problem then one of them would have got it buy now but it has not happened and very strange given the msm bs every day and the amount of different ppl they serve every day and all live in the same house.

as long as they keep testing for covid they will always find it given the way they test for it using 45 cycles of amplification with the pcr test want more covid turn up the cycles.

this only ends when those testing centers pack up and go home and i cant see that happening for a long time yet or at least another 5-6 months at least.

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease

the covid jab is not a vaccine it does not meet the definition of the word as does not stop you getting it or transmitting it so is classed as a experimental treatment with no long term side effects known.

 

[oyster]

Hey folks! Don't worry about storm Arwen, the stock market slumping, air transport to Africa stopped, avian flu, Jamie Oliver being unable to make toast, deaths in the Channel, sleaze, Johnson's mental capacity, Nadine Dorries' regrets, Madely leaving sleb out of here, the really important thing is that a period of 24 hours, four weeks hence isn't "under threat" or ruined.

Daily Express Front Page 27th of November 2021

The new COVID variant, designated a variant of concern on Friday by the WHO and named Omicron, is a “threat to Christmas”, according to the Daily Express.


Daily Mail Front Page 27th of November 2021

KEEP CALM & DON'T LET NEW COVID RUIN XMAS

 

[jonathan.agnew]

in my local shop that is not very big at all it is run buy 3 members of staff all from the same family one is 23, 46 and 72.

they serve 100s of customers a day and round here no one wears a mask even from the start and none of them has got covid and been open every day since this crap started and to this day they dont know anyone that has died from it.

none of them have had the jab or is going to get one as if it was a problem then one of them would have got it buy now but it has not happened and very strange given the msm bs every day and the amount of different ppl they serve every day and all live in the same house.

as long as they keep testing for covid they will always find it given the way they test for it using 45 cycles of amplification with the pcr test want more covid turn up the cycles.

this only ends when those testing centers pack up and go home and i cant see that happening for a long time yet or at least another 5-6 months at least.

A vaccine is a biological preparation that provides active acquired immunity to a particular infectious disease

the covid jab is not a vaccine it does not meet the definition of the word as does not stop you getting it or transmitting it so is classed as a experimental treatment with no long term side effects known.

You and flecc both operate on a flawed algorithm known in stats as the availability heuristic - a mental shortcut that involve relying on immediate examples that come to mind when evaluating an (especially distant or remote) concept like covid, or risk associated with it. More often than not it involve confusing correlation and causality.
It's good to know neither of you put your money where your mouths are (and go around unvaccinated and unmasked in closed environments with others). not least for others you come in contact with. I'd rather question your integrity than have you drop of the radar permanently.

 

[soundwave]

You and flecc both operate on a flawed algorithm known in stats as the availability heuristic - a mental shortcut that involve relying on immediate examples that come to mind when evaluating an (especially distant or remote) concept like covid, or risk associated with it. More often than not it involve confusing correlation and causality.
It's good to know neither of you put your money where your mouths are (and go around unvaccinated and unmasked in closed environments with others). not least for others you come in contact with. I'd rather question your integrity than have you drop of the radar permanently.

im still not dead tho and go to the shop every day in the last 2 years i have been crashed in to 2 times some twat tried to punch me in the face and plod raided my house and all failed!

https://flic.kr/p/2jWP75v
https://flic.kr/p/2k5CNuc

 

[jonathan.agnew]

im still not dead tho and go to the shop every day in the last 2 years i have been crashed in to 2 times some twat tried to punch me in the face and plod raided my house and all failed!

https://flic.kr/p/2jWP75v
https://flic.kr/p/2k5CNuc

Good on you my dear antisocial fellow forumite. But take it from a bloke who worked in third world hospitals for ten years. Everybody's luck runs out eventually. Take the twat and plod as fate giving you a heads up.

 

[soundwave]

Good on you my dear antisocial fellow forumite. But take it from a bloke who worked in third world hospitals for ten years. Everybody's luck runs out eventually. Take the twat and plod as fate giving you a heads up.

move or be destroyed and im still not dead

 

[Nev]

and plod raided my house and all failed!

I hope they didn't confiscate your porn mags and cheese and onion crisps you keep hidden under the bed.