Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

UK will seek to ‘correct’ rulings by European Court of Human Rights

Raab questions role of Strasbourg judges

www.politico.eu

Since we are no longer in EU this seems perfectly acceptable.

Totally unacceptable. The Human Rights court recommendations in relation to our armed forces were all entirely reasonable. For example they ruled that the UK government were wrong to automatically expel anyone from the forces with a dishonourable discharge and loss of pension rights if they revealed they were homosexual. Those expelled included officers decorated for gallantry, hence their court action.

Politicians like Raab should never under any circumstances be allowed to overrule judgements in properly constituted courts. Since they are where they are by a popular vote, it's a variation of mob rule displacing considered legal judgment.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Totally unacceptable. The Human Rights court recommendations in relation to our armed forces were all entirely reasonable. For example they ruled that the UK government were wrong to automatically expel anyone from the forces with a dishonourable discharge and loss of pension rights if they revealed they were homosexual. Those expelled included officers decorated for gallantry, hence their court action.

Politicians like Raab should never under any circumstances be allowed to overrule judgements in properly constituted courts. Since they are where they are by a popular vote, it's a variation of mob rule displacing considered legal judgment.
.

Better, more convincing argument Flecc.
Raab's explanation sounded reasonable but suppose that's why he's a politician...
They do have to get any changes debated and through the house... Motives and detail will be more apparent at that stage..
And don't forget this monopoly on power stems from much of what we, ve all discussed earlier. ie) Labour finding ways to stay out of power. A task they seem to excel at.
And by the way. Wasn't Robert Peel (1670's) first Tory???
I was under impression modern Tories (Modern Conservatives) looked on 1922 as their inauguration year... (1922 Committee??)
But to be fair Tory history isn't one of my strong points.

 

[Woosh]

Labour finding ways to stay out of power. A task they seem to excel at.

that may be true under JC, certainly not under KS.

 

[Zlatan]

that may be true under JC, certainly not under KS.

Any party isn't just it's leader.
Look at arguments over last few days, Starmer's inability to act /condemn Rayner and or m25 protesters... He, s no more attractive to voters than Corbyn was. In fact Corbyn was probably more decisive. He was quick to sack Champion.
But time will tell.
You really think Starmer has a hope of winning next GE??
But, I suggest that BJ is starting to lose his voter credibility. I know the DM is shocking in its bias but reading the comments page is interesting and possibly indicative.
Over last 6 months or so there has been a shift away from him in people's sentiments (but he still holds a 9% advantage over Starmer in suitability as PM).
It seems to me many more are questioning not this party or that but the actual system itself. But, we will never get electoral reform under Tories and we have them until at least 2024...
Atypical DM comment at moment.


Think this rules out all our current parties.
Appalled at Politics has a point.
There are many more such comments, far more so than those showing support for Starmer or BJ.

 

[Zlatan]

How might Brexit affect human rights in the UK?

Brexit could affect the protection of human rights in the UK due to the decision to stop the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights having affect after the UK leaves the EU

commonslibrary.parliament.uk

Tories have been planning changes for a while.??? It was in their last manifesto. (claimed here)??? Not just Dr and BJ then.. Goes back to Cameron at least.

 

[oldgroaner]

Raab sets out plans to end European judges ‘dictating’ UK on human rights - City AM

The new Justice Secretary, Dominic Raab, has revealed new details about how he plans to prevent interference from Strasbourg in British matters as part of his overhaul of the Human Rights Act. At the Conservative Party conference earlier this month, the Justice Secretary said Boris Johnson had...

www.cityam.com

This seems perfectly understandable to me and any changes must be put before house any way???Isn't this the sort of thing he should be doing???

NO (let me know if you have difficulty understanding that)

 

[oldgroaner]

How might Brexit affect human rights in the UK?

Brexit could affect the protection of human rights in the UK due to the decision to stop the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights having affect after the UK leaves the EU

commonslibrary.parliament.uk

Tories have been planning changes for a while.??? It was in their last manifesto. (claimed here)??? Not just Dr and BJ then.. Goes back to Cameron at least.

And the reasoning behind it is still the same
CONTROL (and eroding people's human rights)
But then people who voted for Brexit wanted to give some up, didn't they , and we who voted remain became unrepresented collateral damage.

 

[oldgroaner]

Better, more convincing argument Flecc.
Raab's explanation sounded reasonable but suppose that's why he's a politician...
They do have to get any changes debated and through the house... Motives and detail will be more apparent at that stage..
And don't forget this monopoly on power stems from much of what we, ve all discussed earlier. ie) Labour finding ways to stay out of power. A task they seem to excel at.
And by the way. Wasn't Robert Peel (1670's) first Tory???
I was under impression modern Tories (Modern Conservatives) looked on 1922 as their inauguration year... (1922 Committee??)
But to be fair Tory history isn't one of my strong points.

It isn't the Tory parties strong point either, they prefer to follow the Italian and German Fascist example.

 

[Woosh]

Atypical DM comment at moment.

Think this rules out all our current parties.
Appalled at Politics has a point.
There are many more such comments, far more so than those showing support for Starmer or BJ.

There are many more such comments, far more so than those showing support for Starmer or BJ.

I hope there are more people with such comment. That's the point.
That person is longing for decent, educated, philanthropic politicians.
He/she may just as well add to it honest and hardworking.

He/she describes KS, not the philanderer, finger crossing BJ.

 

[oyster]

Starmer's inability to act /condemn

And the tories have spent years failing to condemn Johnson (and others). Ah - that's just what he's like. He's cuddly really. Despite the vile language emitted from his/their mouths over many years.

 

[oldgroaner]

Time for a giggle

Well, if he/she/it/them can't stick to a manifesto promise the only 100% reliable deity has to be Satan himself.

The Telegraph would headline this as follows
Police are treating this as a Satanist issue, a proofreader has been arrested on blasphemy charges.

 

[oldgroaner]

This Bible is available too

"The Flat Earth Society has members all around the globe".

 

[Zlatan]

It isn't the Tory parties strong point either, they prefer to follow the Italian and German Fascist example.

No, not quite OG. Cameron, May or even BJ haven't organised a Crystalnacht. Don't think hyperbole helps. It's easy to dismiss and make opposition to Tories look quite ridiculous.
Opposition to Tories needs to be rather more targeted.Alikening them to fascists etc etc is both justifying the hate comments and playing into Tory hands.
Its OK to call fascists scum isn't it?
Its exactly why Labour are in the mess they are in. Comes accross as politics of hate.

You can almost see BJ's face relax if he were confronted with fascists description or the hate from Rayner. He doesn't even need to answer it, which is exactly what Tories do at moment. Keep out of public view, let the hyperbole destroy itself. Works everytime.

Only time Boris panics is when confronted with legitimate pertinent questions. Marr had him squirming and talking utter rubbish over the incineration of livestock.And Marr was the personification of pleasantness. Its much harder to handle.
BJ would just smile politely and not answer if asked about Rayner or fascists comments. He doesn't need to. They just dismiss it as ramblings of extremists. They would be right.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

No, not quite OG. Cameron, May or even BJ haven't organised a Crystalnacht. Don't think hyperbole helps. It's easy to dismiss and make opposition to Tories look quite ridiculous.
Opposition to Tories needs to be rather more targeted.Alikening them to fascists etc etc is both justifying the hate comments and playing into Tory hands.
Its OK to call fascists scum isn't it?
Its exactly why Labour are in the mess they are in. Comes accross as politics of hate.

You can almost see BJ's face relax if he were confronted with fascists description or the hate from Rayner. He doesn't even need to answer it, which is exactly what Tories do at moment. Keep out of public view, let the hyperbole destroy itself. Works everytime.

Only time Boris panics is when confronted with legitimate pertinent questions. Marr had him squirming and talking utter rubbish over the incineration of livestock.And Marr was the personification of pleasantness. Its much harder to handle.
BJ would just smile politely and not answer if asked about Rayner or fascists comments. He doesn't need to. They just dismiss it as ramblings of extremists. They would be right.

But that's too expedient. How about thinking more intrinsically about the party you voted for? Its corruption. Abuse of power. The donor spectacle. Politics do not have to entirely be the utterly unprincipled game of strategic passive aggression and misrepresentation you describe

 

[oyster]

No, not quite OG. Cameron, May or even BJ haven't organised a Crystalnacht. Don't think hyperbole helps. It's easy to dismiss and make opposition to Tories look quite ridiculous.
Opposition to Tories needs to be rather more targeted.Alikening them to fascists etc etc is both justifying the hate comments and playing into Tory hands.
Its OK to call fascists scum isn't it?
Its exactly why Labour are in the mess they are in. Comes accross as politics of hate.

You can almost see BJ's face relax if he were confronted with fascists description or the hate from Rayner. He doesn't even need to answer it, which is exactly what Tories do at moment. Keep out of public view, let the hyperbole destroy itself. Works everytime.

Only time Boris panics is when confronted with legitimate pertinent questions. Marr had him squirming and talking utter rubbish over the incineration of livestock.And Marr was the personification of pleasantness. Its much harder to handle.
BJ would just smile politely and not answer if asked about Rayner or fascists comments. He doesn't need to. They just dismiss it as ramblings of extremists. They would be right.

I think some people do live in fear of Border Force coming to pick them up and deport them. There have been too many cases where this has happened, right up to and including actual deportation, later revealed to be wrong and unjustified.

 

[Woosh]

He doesn't even need to answer it

since when has he answered a tough question? he'd rather tell another joke.

 

[Zlatan]

But that's too expedient. How about thinking more intrinsically about the party you voted for? Its corruption. Abuse of power. The donor spectacle. Politics do not have to entirely be the utterly unprincipled game of strategic passive aggression and misrepresentation you describe

I agree with that principle entirely. Valid, specific points,well made to point out faults.
That is generally not happening. We label, shout and insult.
The entire media is calling for the heat to be taken out of British politics. From Brexiteers calling remainers traitors, leavers called idiots, tories called scum and much much more including Rayner's outburst are symptomatic of our politics. Not for a second am I saying that has caused the death of anybody, that's another problem, but it certainly hasn't helped... Nearly everybody united saying we must stop this... Yet a visit on here reveals not condemnation of hate speech but from many quarters a justification. Calling Tories fascists and scum is not calming anything down at all. Its fanning the flames. And counter productive anyway.
I said in last post Marr went about his business superbly. Putting Johnson on spot in a correct manner. No hate, no prejudice, no malice, just pertinent questions.
The alternative? More hate, more name calling, more fights, sounds more like politics of playground. Ending where? Another actual Crystalnacht and many deaths.???

 

[Zlatan]

since when has he answered a tough question? he'd rather tell another joke.

You obviously didn't watch Marr..
Boris was made to look a bumbling fool with stupid replies. Call him fascist scum... He smiles and puts you down.Without saying a word.

 

[oyster]

just pertinent questions.

And a desperate lack of pertinent answers.

Let us also consider that you are not complaining about Johnson being called a liar. Probably because that is an almost undisputed fact. But that itself is a major undermining element in politics.

 

[Woosh]

You obviously didn't watch Marr..
Boris was made to look a bumbling fool with stupid replies. Call him fascist scum... He smiles and puts you down.Without saying a word.

I did see that interview a few weeks ago but my recollection is quite different.
the way you described the conversation, you are obviously in love with BJ.
There is no more blindness or seeing things that aren't there.