Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

No, it doesn't need NATO and its warlike provocations.
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So why is this happening Flecc. (that isn't my headline)
Its a European publication reporting on current topical issues.
I think what you really mean is you don't want the EU to have any alliance with NATO.
The headline and article do not smack of US foistering NATO onto EU. Quite the reverse.
And each year it does so just means no European unity, or European Strategic influence. Its individual country based or NATO.
Come on Flecc, there must be a realisation on EU's part,it needs a European military allegiance at least as powerful as NATO. Without one it can't even claim to be defending itself let alone have strategic world wide influence. That is done by NATO, controlled by US.. And why, because EU has proven time and time again it can not sing from same hym sheet, one nation cops out, a few others want NATO and in mean time China grows and grows.
EU and Europe are proving incapable of achieving Strategic Autonomy because the EU system of governance is flawed. Europe should be playing a massive part world wide. It doesn't. It passes the book to what are tiny almost insignificant States (France/Germany/UK) or allows/ asks NATO to take the lead.
That's 40 years its had... No further on and still requesting alliance to US via NATO.
And then folk are misinformed enough to blame US. Its our own damned faults for squabbling and not making EU work properly for last 40 years.
Why do you think Australians have just jumped out of bed with France and into bed with US? Because the US ally spends 750 billion dollars annually, has most powerful military on earth and France is France, Spending under 1/10th on defence and ranked I, d guess about 10th military in world.
That France deal should have been with a European Strategic Force. But it does not exist. Then ask why not.

 

[flecc]

Yes, send NATO home. But there needs to be something to take its place

Fast motor vehicles arrived before roads suitable for them. Aircraft arrived before aerodromes. Boats before harbours. Babies before nappies.

The need has to arrive first to trigger the necessary provision.

While NATO is present the EU's nations will not be motivated to have their own defence force. Especially since NATO already costs them a lot of money, so they don't want a second dose on top.

Get rid of Nato first and they will immediately rush to set up their own defence force.
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[flecc]

EU and Europe are proving incapable of achieving Strategic Autonomy because the EU system of governance is flawed.

The EU doesn't have a system of governance since it isn't a government. There is no government of Europe, only the individual governments of the individual member nations.

You and some others dont like that. But it will please you very much more if the US clears out and takes NATO with it.

The need that creates will result in a home grown defence force and the co-operation that brings might at last get the half dozen lead EU nations to merge and start the core of the country called Europe, governed by the European parliament with a full blown defence policy. At that point the EU disbands and is no more.

What's been stopping that happening? The USA's interference more than any other factor.
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[Zlatan]

The EU doesn't have a system of governance since it isn't a government. There is no government of Europe, only the individual governments of the individual member nations.

You and some others dont like that. But it will please you very much more if the US clears out and takes NATO with it.

The need that creates will result in a home grown defence force and the co-operation that brings might at last get the half dozen lead EU nations to merge and start the core of the country called Europe, governed by the European parliament with a full blown defence policy. At that point the EU disbands and is no more.

What's been stopping that happening? The USA's interference more than any other factor.
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Yep, probably.. But certainly an argument to stop the alliance /reliance on NATO... Which doesn't seem to be the way EU are going..

 

[flecc]

Yep, probably.. But certainly an argument to stop the alliance /reliance on NATO... Which doesn't seem to be the way EU are going..

I don't think the EU has much choice. If the member countries won't act first, and they won't while it means double the costs to finance both NATO exercises and those for setting up a European force, the EU is left only with leaning on NATO.
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[wheeler]

I totally agree with the last sentence, but FWIW, regarding the first one, the reason they can send the meter reading is because that uses what is effectively a standard mobile phone SMS module - so it just sends a text message.
The 'home display' communication is via a pretty weak LE Bluetooth module. And yea ... its crap!

What I find frustrating is that since I foolishly allowed a smart meter to be installed something like a year and a half or more ago, my provider (SSE), still hasn't provided the service on the website that allows you to view your usage over time! I'd have thought that was a pretty fundamental feature! The button is there, but it's just stuck with 'feature not available at the moment' or something and has been like that since the very beginning

You are right in that for the southern part of the UK smart meters communicate by means of the 2G/3G cellular network run by Telefonica (O2).
In the north of England and Scotland communication is by Long Range Radio to radio masts operated by Arqiva. These may be broadcast or other communication masts operating in the 400MHz band.
Up until my energy supplier recently ceased trading it continued to ask for my meter readings every month, this combined with the smart meter's inability to communicate with the home display gives me no confidence that the meters are communicating with anyone or anything.
I wasn't particularly keen to have smart meters but I did rather look forward to not scrabbling around under the kitchen sink and in a low meter cupboard every month.
No such luck, I'll maybe set up a couple of cheap IP cameras to save further deterioration of my knees.

 

[Woosh]

And no Europe would not have been capable of defending itself against USSR...

says who? the USA?

 

[Zlatan]

says who? the USA?

No, Europe says so. Look at the balance of machinery lined up against each other in Europe during cold War. Even with NATO it would have been a close run thing and would have entailed NATO deploying tactical nuclear weapons.. Its a very odd view to assume France/Germany/UK could have halted USSR... Probably more even now but quite a silly argument when NATO represented perhaps 90% of forces...??
Europe is to this day still reliant on NATO forces to provide a force of such power aggressors are put off..An aggressor only has to think they could succeed and war starts.. The whole point is to amass sufficient forces first strike is not worth it.
Same old adage... If you want peace... Prepare for war... Its kept the peace for 75 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

Phil McCann
@phi1mccan
6h

Today has been…


Who is the BBC Political reporter for Cheshire

 

[oldgroaner]

You can't have peace without security Woosh. Nato stops doing its job and how long does peace last. They are mutually inclusive..
And that Force stopped the European conflict in 1995..and kept Europe peaceful throughout the cold War...(mostly)
Its got to be an idealists idealist who thinks we can just all throw our arms away. Unrealistic and dangerous. Not all folk are like you Woosh. Besides, it's not me you need to be convincing... Its every government on the planet. USA spend 750 billion annually on defence, China tell us they spend a third of that. Some experts suspect China is currently spending double that USA does. UK, Germany, France spend around 60 billion euro per year.. (each) All not needed??? They all have it wrong then Woosh???
And amazingly none of any of that spending has kept us safe.. The EU has.

If we were to attempt to remain in existence when and if the major powers resort to all out war, we can guarantee our own annihilation by having nuclear weapons.
We might as well either paint targets on our heads, or blow ourselves up and save a few million lives on the other side in the process..
An Oxymoron in this statement
"Nato stops doing its job and how long does peace last. They are mutually inclusive.."
How does that square with the obvious fact that NATO only actually does it's job AFTER war has broken out?
And so far it's wars have not benefited us, merely been interference on behalf of American policy, and not controlled by us at that!

 

[Woosh]

An aggressor only has to think they could succeed and war starts.. The whole point is to amass sufficient forces first strike is not worth it.

that's not born out by reality.
The USA has only attacked forces far inferior to its own.

 

[oldgroaner]

No, Europe says so. Look at the balance of machinery lined up against each other in Europe during cold War. Even with NATO it would have been a close run thing and would have entailed NATO deploying tactical nuclear weapons.. Its a very odd view to assume France/Germany/UK could have halted USSR... Probably more even now but quite a silly argument when NATO represented perhaps 90% of forces...??
Europe is to this day still reliant on NATO forces to provide a force of such power aggressors are put off..An aggressor only has to think they could succeed and war starts.. The whole point is to amass sufficient forces first strike is not worth it.
Same old adage... If you want peace... Prepare for war... Its kept the peace for 75 years.

That is the problem. war is being waged all the time, either by proxy or in Russia's case buying Brexit, using the simple ruse of getting a gang of traitorous Tory Vermin to manipulate a public open to being persuaded that foreigners and not our own government are the source of all our problems.
Much more effective than open conflict and virtually risk free to them.
Trident and Nato are really just redundant if we have traitors within the gates so to speak ,that can be bought.
The country has been effectively neutered as a political power for the foreseeable future.

 

[Zlatan]

That is the problem. war is being waged all the time, either by proxy or in Russia's case buying Brexit, using the simple ruse of getting a gang of traitorous Tory Vermin to manipulate a public open to being persuaded that foreigners and not our own government are the source of all our problems.
Much more effective than open conflict and virtually risk free to them.
Trident and Nato are really just redundant if we have traitors within the gates so to speak ,that can be bought.
The country has been effectively neutered as a political power for the foreseeable future.

Neither ourselves or entire EU /Europe are a political power. Aukus has proved it. We are too small and have only tagged on to Aukus shirt tails.. But Europe could and should be a massive world power and influence. I don't have to explain why I think that's the case, I, ve said it a good few times..
The major political powers are China, USA and to a point Russia... Take into account productivity, GDP, population etc Europe should be on that list. Look at last 50 years to decide why it isn't.
As to Nuclear Arms/preparing for war etc... Afraid its way of world now.....is there any going back? Ask China... Nato... US... UK... India... Pakistan....France...and some I can't remember... (nuclear powers)
Does having them make us a target? We just don't know... Personally I feel happier us having them... You don't... Sorry. Its a binary choice.
Have nuclear arms made world safer? Who actually knows? Nobody.
We can just be thankful Oppenheimer worked for US and not Germans.

 

[Danidl]

Neither ourselves or entire EU /Europe are a political power. Aukus has proved it. We are too small and have only tagged on to Aukus shirt tails.. But Europe could and should be a massive world power and influence. I don't have to explain why I think that's the case, I, ve said it a good few times..
The major political powers are China, USA and to a point Russia... Take into account productivity, GDP, population etc Europe should be on that list. Look at last 50 years to decide why it isn't.
As to Nuclear Arms/preparing for war etc... Afraid its way of world now.....is there any going back? Ask China... Nato... US... UK... India... Pakistan....France...and some I can't remember... (nuclear powers)
Does having them make us a target? We just don't know... Personally I feel happier us having them... You don't... Sorry. Its a binary choice.
Have nuclear arms made world safer? Who actually knows? Nobody.
We can just be thankful Oppenheimer worked for US and not Germans..
And believe it or not Oppenheimer, yes that one, actually visited our house and had a cup of tea with us... Around 1970?.Honestly. (He was an avid White Bull Terrier fan, came to see a dog we had, in a Chauffer driven Rolls with 2 security cars full of personell)
Nobody at school would believe me either.

..hope Oppenheimer visited before 1967 , he would have smelt a bit off in 1970.

 

[Zlatan]

..hope Oppenheimer visited before 1967 , he would have smelt a bit off in 1970.

Spoke with sister. It was Raymond Oppenheimer... Spent all my life till today thinking it was Robert.. What a disappointment.I, ve been telling that story 50 years... Sister had a good laugh..

 

[GLJoe]

In the north of England and Scotland communication is by Long Range Radio to radio masts operated by Arqiva. These may be broadcast or other communication masts operating in the 400MHz band.

Interesting - I didn't know there were different systems in the UK. Ta for that. I'll try and look into it some more because I have a specific question I'd like answered (perhaps you know?):

I listen to a lot of US podcasts where some very switched on people have been warning about smart meters, and how the EMF radiation given off has often been measured to be thousands of times greater than is considered safe and how you need to be sure your meter isn't installed too close to say, the other side of your bedroom wall etc.
I wasn't sure what system the US meters are using for them to be transmitting dangerously high levels of EMF and how the US meters might be different in design to ones we have in the UK - maybe ours are inherently a lot safer? or are they ???
Anyone happen to know?

 

[oyster]

Interesting - I didn't know there were different systems in the UK. Ta for that. I'll try and look into it some more because I have a specific question I'd like answered (perhaps you know?):

I listen to a lot of US podcasts where some very switched on people have been warning about smart meters, and how the EMF radiation given off has often been measured to be thousands of times greater than is considered safe and how you need to be sure your meter isn't installed too close to say, the other side of your bedroom wall etc.
I wasn't sure what system the US meters are using for them to be transmitting dangerously high levels of EMF and how the US meters might be different in design to ones we have in the UK - maybe ours are inherently a lot safer? or are they ???
Anyone happen to know?

You might find some interest in this planning application:

https://wwwapplications.barnsley.gov.uk/PlanningExplorerMVC/Home/FileDownload/01GEE4NB7XTN3TZQWYMBGIVFZQALCR2A3X?ApplicationNumber=2016/1562

It gives details such as frequencies used.

While I am willing to consider that radio signals can cause health issues, I suspect that blaming smart meters is questionable.

I am reminded of some protests against mobile phone networks. Many seemed to fail to appreciate that more lower-power cells would usually result in lower overall exposure. Much of the exposure is from the phone end and the further away from masts, the more powerful the signals from phones.

Also, that I used to live near a television tower from which we got such a poor signal, we had to use Virgin cable! Anyone could be forgiven thinking that proximity to tower indicated a strong (therefore dangerous) signal strength. Things are not always as they seem.

Finally, many more modern houses are insulated with polyisocyanurate foam insulation which typically interposes two significant layers of aluminium foil. Which is well-known for killing radio signals such as mobile and wifi. (Some people find they need multiple wireless access points simply due to the insulation in their houses.) A smart meter in an outdoor meter box will likely project very little signal into a house - but, obviously, will depend on the details of each installation.

 

[flecc]

Spoke with sister. It was Raymond Oppenheimer... Spent all my life till today thinking it was Robert.. What a disappointment.I, ve been telling that story 50 years... Sister had a good laugh..

You needn't be disappointed. Although a theoretical physicist, Robert Oppenheimer was appointed the administror of the Manhatten project and he was excellent in that role. However he was also a self publicist and promoter who gave the public impression that it was his brilliance that created nuclear weapons which certainly wasn't true. He had under him a team of mainly European brilliant scientists, chief among them Enrico Fermi who was the real nuclear science genius. Being awarded a Nobel prize in 1938 gave Fermi and his family the opportunitry to escape to the USA with US help, since as an Italian Jew he feared the rise of the Nazis.

"Situated safely in the United States, in 1939, Fermi was appointed professor of physics at New York's Columbia University. While there, Fermi discovered that if uranium neutrons were emitted into fissioning uranium, they could split other uranium atoms, setting off a chain reaction that would release enormous amounts of energy. His experiments led to the first controlled nuclear chain reaction in Chicago, on December 2, 1942, under Chicago's athletic stadium. Subsequently, during World War II, Fermi became one of the principal leaders on the Manhattan Project, which focused on the development of the atomic bomb."

In summary, Fermi got the Nobel prize for his nuclear physics discoveries even before the war. Oppenheimer never did get a Nobel prize, but for running the Chicago project he did get an Enrico Fermi award later from President Kennedy.
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[Woosh]

Oppenheimer did contribute to the creation of the bomb with his Oppenheimer-Phillips Process, Deuterium is used to initiate the chain reaction.

 

[oldgroaner]

Boris Johnson “deeply regrets” going down Brexit route close sources reveal
From the "London Economic"