Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

It is fairly well accepted without his support Ed Milliband or Corbyn would not have made Party leader. He is tantamount to the king makers of old. Its wrong.

My Agree shows I dislike it as much as you, but it's not wrong for the trade union party that Labour is.

It would be very wrong if the unions didn't have that influence.

For those who don't like a trade union party, the answer is very simple, vote for another party, there's plenty of them.

I've just voted in the London Mayoral and GLC elections, 20 candidates for Mayor and many for the GLC, so I wasn't stuck for choice.
.

 

[Zlatan]

My Agree shows I dislike it as much as you, but it's not wrong for the trade union party that Labour is.

It would be very wrong if the unions didn't have that influence.

For those who don't like a trade union party, the answer is very simple, vote for another party, there's plenty of them.

I've just voted in the London Mayoral and GLC elections, 20 candidates for Mayor and many for the GLC, so I wasn't stuck for choice.
.

Yep, I suppose you are right. It's quite a priority for country to have a viable opposition, what we call it or where it comes from isn't that important. Historically that has been Labour and with its decline we don't seem to be seeing one take its place.???
The prospect of a one party democracy (which is a mutually exclusive concept) is bad enough under a Tory party led by BJ but its down right frightening thinking of one led by such as IDS..
I suspect we are seeing quite a moderate conservatism whilst we have a possibility of a resurgent Labour. The future could be so different if Labour do continue in current fashion.
And all these people grumbling at Boris have seen nothing yet if the real Tories with, no opposition, end up running country.

 

[flecc]

Yep, I suppose you are right. It's quite a priority for country to have a viable opposition, what we call it or where it comes from isn't that important. Historically that has been Labour and with its decline we don't seem to be seeing one take its place.???
The prospect of a one party democracy (which is a mutually exclusive concept) is bad enough under a Tory party led by BJ but its down right frightening thinking of one led by such as IDS..
I suspect we are seeing quite a moderate conservatism whilst we have a possibility of a resurgent Labour. The future could be so different if Labour do continue in current fashion.
And all these people grumbling at Boris have seen nothing yet if the real Tories with, no opposition, end up running country.

If the need arises more urgently, I think we will see a replacement appear. Just look at how strong the Greens have become in Germany now where they could soon hold the balance of power. They are real force in a few other countries now as the climate emergency becomes ever more real to the public.

As a lifelong environmentalist I voted Green for my second PR choice for London Mayor. They strongly tend to be left wing also but with the environment rather than dogma being the greater influence.
.

 

[Zlatan]

If the need arises more urgently, I think we will see a replacement appear. Just look at how strong the Greens have become in Germany now where they could soon hold the balance of power. They are real force in a few other countries now as the climate emergency becomes ever more real to the public.

As a lifelong environmentalist I voted Green for my second PR choice for London Mayor. They strongly tend to be left wing also but with the environment rather than dogma being the greater influence.
.

Let's hope so.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Yep, I suppose you are right. It's quite a priority for country to have a viable opposition, what we call it or where it comes from isn't that important. Historically that has been Labour and with its decline we don't seem to be seeing one take its place.???
The prospect of a one party democracy (which is a mutually exclusive concept) is bad enough under a Tory party led by BJ but its down right frightening thinking of one led by such as IDS..
I suspect we are seeing quite a moderate conservatism whilst we have a possibility of a resurgent Labour. The future could be so different if Labour do continue in current fashion.
And all these people grumbling at Boris have seen nothing yet if the real Tories with, no opposition, end up running country.

But isnt that just the way it goes in life? Progressing from a bellend like boris to a complete catastrophe like ids and only recognising the folly of our ways and engaging in dialogue (also with an opposition) once the torytanic has properly ****** itself onto the berg? Its reminiscent of south africa progressing from Mandela (dearly as I loved him) to Zuma's corruption to the utter disarray and corruption now (and still not being quite ready for honest self reflection, still needing more pain, disillusionment to get to that point). I suspect meaningful dialogue about who we are and where were going in the uk will only happen after the brexit project has run out of steam (and its second small puff of luck as part of hoarding the worlds vaccine and pleasing the entitled bourgeoisie)

 

[flecc]

I suspect meaningful dialogue about who we are and where were going in the uk will only happen after the brexit project has run out of steam

Very true. To understand who we are now requires looking at where the modern "we" came from.

From 1950 on as our former Empire disappeared we went into sharp decline, reaching bankruptcy by the early 1970s. Joining the EEC and the IMF taking over the management of our economy rescued us from that and we were gradually able to recover to an almost viable state, albeit with an ever growing national debt so an insecure future.

Now by leaving the EU we have reverted to the pre 1970 state with our economy declining due to the resumption of manufacturing losses and the ongoing loss of our most important export, financial services for the EU countries.

There's only three ways out of that:

1) Becoming as successful as Germany at manufacturing and exporting to the world.

2) Failing to achieve that and declining into a poor tourist destination, selling our story of history.

3) Rejoining the European project via either EFTA or the EU.

The first is as likely as pigs flying carbon neutral. The second is easy to achieve but a gloomy prospect for our young. The third is the obvious best choice, but it will still mean working much harder than we used to and succeeding better.
.

 

[Zlatan]

But isnt that just the way it goes in life? Progressing from a bellend like boris to a complete catastrophe like ids and only recognising the folly of our ways and engaging in dialogue (also with an opposition) once the torytanic has properly ****** itself onto the berg? Its reminiscent of south africa progressing from Mandela (dearly as I loved him) to Zuma's corruption to the utter disarray and corruption now (and still not being quite ready for honest self reflection, still needing more pain, disillusionment to get to that point). I suspect meaningful dialogue about who we are and where were going in the uk will only happen after the brexit project has run out of steam (and its second small puff of luck as part of hoarding the worlds vaccine and pleasing the entitled bourgeoisie)

It is, but just seems to me all this has coincided with Labour at their lowest point in 50 years or perhaps that's contributory.
Has Labour ever been so fragmented?
We still have Blairites pulling one way, Unite opposing everything they do, Momentum agreeing with neither and Starmer stuck in middle literally not knowing which way to turn.
I actually think as bumbling and idiotic BJ appears we are fortunate it's him at helm. Had labour won last election I suspect we, d still be in middle of pandemic and had IDS been Tory leader our death toll would have been 200k.

 

[flecc]

We still have Blairites pulling one way, Unite opposing everything they do, Momentum agreeing with neither and Starmer stuck in middle literally not knowing which way to turn.

Not really, Momentum and the Unions are in left wing agreement, plus Starmer claimed to be left wing and supporting Corbyn's policies.

So it's three lefts and one right, making marching in step very difficult.

The answer is obviously to chuck out the Blairites, as moderate right wingers they never belonged there in the first place. Their rightful home is the Lib-Dems.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Where it all went wrong for Labour

This mess has nothing on the screaming mobs and punch-ups of the Battle of Benn-Healey

unherd.com

Interesting article..

 

[Zlatan]

Not really, Momentum and the Unions are in left wing agreement, plus Starmer claimed to be left wing and supporting Corbyn's policies.

So it's three lefts and one right, making marching in step very difficult.

The answer is obviously to chuck out the Blairites, as moderate right wingers they never belonged there in the first place. Their rightful home is the Lib-Dems.
.

Trouble is nobody is quite sure about Starmer. I, d thought he was nearer Blairite than Corbyn..

 

[flecc]

Trouble is nobody is quite sure about Starmer. I, d thought he was nearer Blairite than Corbyn..

I would have thought the same, given his background.

The truth is that he's probably the same as Blair, both wealthy barristers taking on a degree of left wing mantle for expediency.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I would have thought the same, given his background.

The truth is that he's probably the same as Blair, both wealthy barristers taking on a degree of left wing mantle for expediency.
.

He is the very model
of a Modern Major General

Is the nearest to an accurate description of Starmer as you could wish for!

 

[Nev]

What do you all think about one of the Indian variants which is doubling every week in this country? I thought this was an interesting comment from Sage group member Prof Christina Pagel.

Pagel pointed out that, while B.1.617.2 numbers are not currently that big, they are doubling every week – and this is all within the space of three weeks.

“We’ve done this so many times – waited until things got really bad before we realised we should have acted several weeks ago,” she said. “So why don’t we actually act several weeks ago – which is now!”

Full story can be found here.
Indian Covid variant calls in question 17 May reopening in UK, say experts | Coronavirus | The Guardian

 

[Nev]

I can easily see us ending up in the same place as we got to last September if we are not careful. If I remember correctly cases went right down last summer and the Tories were urging people to go back to their offices to work. There were incentives for people to eat out in cafes etc.

However in certain parts of the country (parts of the North of England I think), there was residual covid infections taking place that we never really got on top of. Come the bad weather in the autumn and these areas combined with infections brought back from people being on holiday abroad sparked it all off once again.

I hope that our vaccination prog will stop a lot of this but no one really knows at the moment if it has much impact on one of the Indian variants mentioned in my previous post.

I don't know what the answer is, we have to try and get back to normal as soon as we can safely do so, but if as the data seems to suggest that Indian variant is doubling every week then that must be something we need to keep an extremely careful eye on.

 

[Woosh]

What do you all think about one of the Indian variants which is doubling every week in this country? I thought this was an interesting comment from Sage group member Prof Christina Pagel.

Pagel pointed out that, while B.1.617.2 numbers are not currently that big, they are doubling every week – and this is all within the space of three weeks.

“We’ve done this so many times – waited until things got really bad before we realised we should have acted several weeks ago,” she said. “So why don’t we actually act several weeks ago – which is now!”

Full story can be found here.
Indian Covid variant calls in question 17 May reopening in UK, say experts | Coronavirus | The Guardian

6% now, 12%, 24%, 48%...
it won't take long - 3 to 4 weeks perhaps, before it becomes the dominant variant here.
If the number of cases remains around the 2,500 mark, then the overall state of the disease is still tolerable.

 

[Zlatan]

Four cylinders, eight pistons and no valves: Meet Cummins’ new 1000hp tank engine

A new opposed-piston diesel engine design yields more power and better efficiency from a smaller displacement, and is coming soon to a tank near you.

www.caradvice.com.au

ICE not dead yet and its a 2 stroke...

 

[Woosh]

ICE not dead yet and its a 2 stroke...

yuk. I can imagine the fumes coming out of those tanks.
one day, even the army will have to show its green credentials.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

It is, but just seems to me all this has coincided with Labour at their lowest point in 50 years or perhaps that's contributory.
Has Labour ever been so fragmented?
We still have Blairites pulling one way, Unite opposing everything they do, Momentum agreeing with neither and Starmer stuck in middle literally not knowing which way to turn.
I actually think as bumbling and idiotic BJ appears we are fortunate it's him at helm. Had labour won last election I suspect we, d still be in middle of pandemic and had IDS been Tory leader our death toll would have been 200k.

It is, but just seems to me all this has coincided with Labour at their lowest point in 50 years or perhaps that's contributory.
Has Labour ever been so fragmented?
We still have Blairites pulling one way, Unite opposing everything they do, Momentum agreeing with neither and Starmer stuck in middle literally not knowing which way to turn.
I actually think as bumbling and idiotic BJ appears we are fortunate it's him at helm. Had labour won last election I suspect we, d still be in middle of pandemic and had IDS been Tory leader our death toll would have been 200k.

We have a populist electorate. Financial crises (08 like the 1930s) are often followed by populism, anti immigrant sentiment, national socialism/fascism (brexit, farage, Tommy Robinson, boris et are all low watt samples of this). A democratic opposition that's about equality, fraternity, liberty does not have much chance in the face of that. For dialogue with the electorate or to win (as corbyn found).100 years from now when political science students study the decline of the uk in the 21st century, it will be all about the conservative party, its lies, corruption (boris) and catastrophic errors of judgement (cameron)

 

[sjpt]

6% now, 12%, 24%, 48%...
it won't take long - 3 to 4 weeks perhaps, before it becomes the dominant variant here.
If the number of cases remains around the 2,500 mark, then the overall state of the disease is still tolerable.

Certainly a big worry. I have noticed that UK cases (smoothed) have been rising consistently since May 4th; though quite low and a slow rise for now. Shows that any relaxation (such as our relatively small April relaxation) has a price. Probably a price worth paying based on those figures, but Indian variation could easily change things.

Has anyone seen data comparing Indian covid growth demographics with vaccine demographics (especially region and age effects)? If the high current growth is mainly with the unvaccinated there is hope that growth will naturally throttle.

COVID-19 Data Explorer

Research and data to make progress against the world’s largest problems

ourworldindata.org

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Four cylinders, eight pistons and no valves: Meet Cummins’ new 1000hp tank engine

A new opposed-piston diesel engine design yields more power and better efficiency from a smaller displacement, and is coming soon to a tank near you.

www.caradvice.com.au

ICE not dead yet and its a 2 stroke...

that is a rather amazing (if not altogether new) design. I cannot imagine low profile 65 ton battle tanks going electric soon. But (this is nerdy) it made me think of victor poncelet (who ingeniously perfected undershot waterwheel design and efficiency just before it became redundant as a result of turbines)