Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Anybody convincing themselves we could go electric cars (and vans) in next 10 (20?)years (without massive improvement) is deluded, probably reading Guardian too much.

You are such a chump on this, deluded and completely out of touch with reality.

A number of major car makers won't even be releasing new ICE cars in two to four years time and have already said so. Peugeot by 2023. JLR not even making any ICE vehicles after 2025. VW planning for 70% e-car production by 2025, just the rest ICE and diminishing.
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[Zlatan]

Since I've always wanted an e-car from decades before there were any since I knew how superior they were back at the 1900s, clearly that isn't true



Be realistic, how many drive to Barra or the South of France? As I've just shown you, for the great majority e-cars are very convenient and entirely practical. So what if an occasional ultra raidcharge taked 15 to 30 minutes during an occasional long run when I've saved all the many hundreds of times of pulling into fuel stations, standing at the pump filling up, going to pay etc. Add that lot up and it's far more time, and often in uncomfortable circumstances.




The first two they do now and no reason why the family can't go on holiday in an e-car. Charge breaks are then often welcome, given how many times one needs to stop for kids, toilets, refreshments etc Forget pulling stuff like caravans, that daftness of of towing a home is going thank goodness



You are so far out of date. How's that work? Very well thanks, it's already working fine.

We already have a number of charging stations with up to 36 rapid and ultra rapid charge points each, compare that to the typical 4 to 8 pump ICE station. If you only but knew it the speed of progress on charging is phenominal with charge points more than doubling ICE fuel stations already and soon more than trebling.

Happening from now, the national EV charging station roll out for BP Pulse will include state of the art ‘hubs’ of between six to twelve chargers, as well as the next generation of ‘e-forecourts’ with up to 24 ultra-rapid chargers (300kW) with on-site solar PV and battery storage systems supplied by Leclanche SA. The e-forecourts will have both retail and convenience facilities for drivers while they are waiting for their cars to be charged.

Shell have announced similar, multiplying by over 8 times their existing charge points, showing hoe the ICE fule copmanies are panicking to catch up with the independents.

All this is essential since the need will be there so soon. Peugeot won't be releasing any new ICE cars after 2023, Jaguar-Land Rover and Volvo after 2025 and some others will also be abandoning ICE by then. Long before the 2030 deadline the choice of ICE cars will be very much smaller than now.

However there's one thing you are completely missing on the charging subject. All ICE filling up is done at fuel stations. Over 90% of all e-car filling up is done at home, so we don't have to replace the filling stations with even more charge points than pumps. Charge points are mainly only needed for the minority of longer runs.

And we'll stick with charging at home since its so very much cheaper.
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So, in one sentence you dismiss everybody who travels over 150 miles to take part in a sport or something.
Yep, I can see how your car works for you but we aren't all in your situation.
Daughter, local drive every day. Electric would be fine. Come weekend she has to launch boat. She, s using a 10 year old Vito...
Every other week we drive to coast. No charging points in Filey available on Saturday morning. And car is 50 yards from house.
There just isn't the incentive to go electric Flecc and I, m not convinced there are the environmental benefits claimed. Production green costs for ecars are terrible.
And, you really think our National Grid could manage the extra demand???

 

[Zlatan]

You are such a chump on this, deluded and completely out of touch with reality.

A number of major car makers won't even be releasing new ICE cars in two to four years time and have already said so. Peugeot by 2023. JLR not even making any ICE vehicles after 2025. VW planning for 70% e-car production by 2025, just the rest ICE and diminishing.
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We, ll see. I don't think it can happen. Where is all the required infrastructure? They are doing so because they have been told. When folk realise ecars don't solve problem it will change. Too many folk can't go electric without massive changes.

 

[Danidl]

That's being silly and showing your bigotry on this subject.

Most of what the Guardian publishes are quotes direct from Barnier who makes perfect sense. He says what I so often said in the last four years:

“I do wonder what, until now, has prevented the UK from becoming ‘Global Britain’, other than its own lack of competitiveness,” he writes. “Germany has become ‘Global Germany’ while being firmly inside the EU and the eurozone.”

He could have said similar for Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands, France and even Italy, all successfully trading globally from within the EU.

Brexit is a disaster for Britain and will remain so.
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You might also include Ireland in that list.

 

[Zlatan]

You are such a chump on this, deluded and completely out of touch with reality.

A number of major car makers won't even be releasing new ICE cars in two to four years time and have already said so. Peugeot by 2023. JLR not even making any ICE vehicles after 2025. VW planning for 70% e-car production by 2025, just the rest ICE and diminishing.
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It's the goals which are lacking in reality. It can't happen. Ecars just aren't good enough yet. Manufacturers will change when they realise sales are being hit. I know loads more people who couldn't go electric than those who could... Or want to..
I know only too well the way governments are steering manufacturers with legislation. Unfortunately IMHO they are banning the technology before a real alternative for it exists. The next 15 years or so are going to be madness. The infrastructure feeding our cars has taken decades to develop. The one feeding ecars has hardly started and the cars will not be fit for purpose... So people will not buy them.

 

[Danidl]

Like the article I posted other day you enjoyed destroying.. The point in that was the results of survey where 20% of ecar owners decided to go back to ICE. Only difference I didn't call you bigoted over your silly response.
Point was 20% went back to ICE, you homed in on slight misuse of power units by author...
Guardian articles are probably the most biased in our entire media. You fail to see it because of your bigotry.

Time you all grew up. We, ve left EU. Our involvement in the experiment is over and much as you all like to imagine we will return, we never will. It's simply sour grapes and remainers insisting on doing what they do best. Find negative aspects and moaning about them. Barnier is a has been and only a touch biased... He messed up. As EU did.
Oh, and by the way, we still have a Tory government, a failing Labour Party and Boris in power. Things aren't going to change anytime soon, irrespective of all the noise made by Starmer, Cummings (now one of your heroes?) or Barnier.
Quoting Barnier is another example of how desperate anti govt brigade have become. You supporting him same.
Its noise and will not affect anything.
When or if we had an alternative folk might start listening but whilst we haven't it's just something for folk on here to get excited about.

Careful now. That survey on electric cars referred to California.. so I checked. California is longer than the UK, is 40% bigger land mass, and has around 1/2 the population. Moreover the majority of the population are clustered into the coastal zone, with vast areas of low population. Now going to Lake Tahoe is like going to the Windermere for Londoners , but is a lot further away, and with less refuelling options, Las Vegas is a standard drive out through 10 hours of desert. And there are mountain ranges in the way, so range anxiety is a serious concern.

 

[flecc]

So, in one sentence you dismiss everybody who travels over 150 miles to take part in a sport or something.
Yep, I can see how your car works for you but we aren't all in your situation.
Daughter, local drive every day. Electric would be fine. Come weekend she has to launch boat. She, s using a 10 year old Vito...
Every other week we drive to coast. No charging points in Filey available on Saturday morning. And car is 50 yards from house.

You must get up to date, many of the current models can do well over 150 miles for sport etc., buy the right one and it can even be over 300 miles, even after allowing for range exaggeration. So yiu won't have to charge exacty at Filey.

There just isn't the incentive to go electric Flecc and I, m not convinced there are the environmental benefits claimed. Production green costs for ecars are terrible.

That isn't true. A lot of lies were published on this originally by those so opposed to e-cars, but they've all been disproved. The lifetime green credentals of e-cars are far superior to those of ICE cars and even the production side is proving far better than was thought originally. That's one reason why the maker have been able to launch them so quickly and easily.

And, you really think our National Grid could manage the extra demand???

When are you ever going to learn Zlatan? How many times must this be explained?

There is no extra demand when over 90% of the charging goes on overnight when the electricity is so abundant we don't know what to do with it. The generating companies are delighted about e-vehicle progress since it will help them so much with their current difficulties in at least two ways.
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[Danidl]

So, in one sentence you dismiss everybody who travels over 150 miles to take part in a sport or something.
Yep, I can see how your car works for you but we aren't all in your situation.
Daughter, local drive every day. Electric would be fine. Come weekend she has to launch boat. She, s using a 10 year old Vito...
Every other week we drive to coast. No charging points in Filey available on Saturday morning. And car is 50 yards from house.
There just isn't the incentive to go electric Flecc and I, m not convinced there are the environmental benefits claimed. Production green costs for ecars are terrible.
And, you really think our National Grid could manage the extra demand???

Yes the National Grid can manage the ramp up in demand. .. particularly as it is all off peak. . I am marginally on your side in this debate, as my travel to France would be problematic at present. Ferries arrival time slippage is regular,
I can see lithium being replaced with another cheaper more abundant metal..even sodium . I can also see the holy grail of electric cars as being aluminium air batteries , as slot in modules , manufactured centrally and distributed at service stations. .. not dissimilar to the current practice of Calor gas butane cylinders. Aluminium /air / water is not rechargeable, but is 100% recyclable.
Recently I came across a new technology of liquid metal batteries, which while not suitable for cars, is perfect for power stations and energy reservoirs.

 

[flecc]

We, ll see. I don't think it can happen. Where is all the required infrastructure? They are doing so because they have been told. When folk realise ecars don't solve problem it will change. Too many folk can't go electric without massive changes.

It not only can happen, it already is and will continue to happen rapidly.

Yes there will be big changes, just as there were when cars first appeared. But now as then, people will immediately adjust and get used to them as they always do. Over the next ten years you'll see how half the population will be able to charge at home, most of them already can now. And over a further ten years everyone will be able to at or very close to their home.

That's all we need, we don't want everyone in an e-car by 2030 and couldn't manage that anyway. A third with a e-car by 2030 will be enough to meet our green targets.
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[Danidl]

Zathlan, I know you are a petrol head, and I most assuredly am not. Now an electric car is fundamentally an incredibly simple device. The only expensive part at present is the battery pack. At present the various manufacturers are loading up their cars with unnecessary gizmos ,in order to give a premium feel and justify the cost. . In time there will be less expensive versions . And if a cheaper battery material becomes available that price will plummet. Aluminium pellets or foil is that material.

 

[flecc]

At present the various manufacturers are loading up their cars with unnecessary gizmos ,in order to give a premium feel and justify the cost. . In time there will be less expensive versions .

That is already happening I'm pleased to say, and e-car prices have been dropping sharply in relative terms, though the government reducing grants hasn't helped. Within five years ICE car prices will be rising as their production diminishes.
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[Zlatan]

Right, I, ll order one for the wife and send her to Cornwall... If it comes back... It works.
You have more faith than me flecc. I see lots of problems.. Not convinced at all about range claims.. Its only a few years since cars were fitted with cheat programs for emission tests.. We'll see..

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Guardian... Spotting a pattern here yet?
By potent do you mean impotent.
Its hardly earth shattering is it.
Barnier is upset with UK /Tory MPs. No sh!te Sherlock.

Still evading the truth wherever it appears eh?

 

[Zlatan]

Still evading the truth wherever it appears eh?

Yes it does doesn't it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Time you all grew up. We, ve left EU. Our involvement in the experiment is over and much as you all like to imagine we will return, we never will.

I shall enjoy quoting that back at you in due course.
By which time you will deny saying it

 

[Zlatan]

SEAT Mii Electric

All details and specs of the SEAT Mii Electric (2020-2021). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.

ev-database.uk

Many of these are around 100 miles (and worse) for highway in cold weather. That's a gallon and half of diesel in similar sized cars??
And you think they will sell??(flecc)

 

[Zlatan]

I shall enjoy quoting that back at you in due course.
By which time you will deny saying it

When we rejoin? Give us a year OG. Don't think us 2 will be around to celebrate. I won't..

 

[flecc]

You might also include Ireland in that list.

Indeed, and I've added Ireland by an edit to my post.
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[flecc]

SEAT Mii Electric

All details and specs of the SEAT Mii Electric (2020-2021). Compare price, lease, real-world range and consumption of every electric vehicle.

ev-database.uk

Many of these are around 100 miles (and worse) for highway in cold weather. That's a gallon and half of diesel in similar sized cars??
And you think they will sell??(flecc)

That's SEAT's version of the VW e-UP, claimed 150 plus in Summer which they can easily do with their new larger battery 35 kW/h battery, but down to about 110 lowest in the coldest weather.

Which is fine since it's a little town car not meant for long journeys., though it can manage the odd ones. For people who want to do long journeys there's VW's large Golf size ID3 with the 340 mile battery. In due course there will be SEAT and Skoda versions of that too.
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[Woosh]

And if a cheaper battery material becomes available that price will plummet. Aluminium pellets or foil is that material.

right now, demand for Lithium batteries far outstrips supply.
All the major manufacturers put their prices up, except for Chinese cell manufacturers.