Brexit, for once some facts.

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
2,400
3,381
We have a Lavazza machine - and our tastes appreciate their coffee.

I have tried some Nespresso but, from my limited experience, prefer Lavazza. Plus, they now do compostable capsules.
Oddly I found a cheap gaggia pump machine and believe it or not ikea espresso coffee is perfect (beats illy). I'm sure a lot of things should matter more but suspect something like the taste of good coffee will be my last memory before I pop my clogs
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
I'm back by unpopular demand :cool:



Hardly as exciting as Coffee machines and motor vehicles.
A tough job to keep the flame burning but someone has to do it!
The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed.

The act of doing something without knowing the consequences, but realizing too late that you could have fixed it.
Man 1: "Hey, why did you shoot your sister?"
Man 2: "I don't know, just kind of wanted to"
Man 1: "So you did a brexit to your sister?"
Man 2: "Yeah, basically"
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
Didn't they used to be a department store chain back when we were in the EU?
Not too sure, heard wife talk about curtains, furniture, wall paper and other sh! te from place. Probably done us all a favour and closed.
Boris is going nowhere... Well back to his nicely wall papered flat which he probably contributed to about same as I did to our decor.
To be honest all this about money wasted on flats smacks of desperation.
One group are saying he, s responsible for thousands of deaths, Starmer and a few other ill informed folk telling us he ( well his Mrs?)have spent too much money on a flat he doesn't and never will own.
Meanwhile back on planet earth literally thousands are dying every day of covid, in various places around world and we are discussing wall paper, flats, coffee and something that happened over 4 years ago, still getting the same old tired digs in... Quotes we, ve heard hundreds of times.. Rather sad really.
And, this attitude of discussing trivia and feeling to be living in a more normal situation is probably because the govt many love to criticise has handled vaccination so well.. And, I include Boris in that process along with all the vaccine suppliers, development teams, NHS, Mhra, JCVI, volunteers and folk involved in trials.
UK recently dropped to 14th on World wide death rate.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
Meanwhile back on planet earth literally thousands are dying every day of covid, in various places around world and we are discussing wall paper, flats, coffee and something that happened over 4 years ago, still getting the same old tired digs in... Quotes we, ve heard hundreds of times.. Rather sad really.
You need to get used to it, it's all part of a process that will eventually return us to the EU, sadder, wiser and worse off.

The really sad thing at present is Brexit itself and the huge and permanent harm it's done.
.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Not too sure, heard wife talk about curtains, furniture, wall paper and other sh! te from place. Probably done us all a favour and closed.
Boris is going nowhere... Well back to his nicely wall papered flat which he probably contributed to about same as I did to our decor.
To be honest all this about money wasted on flats smacks of desperation.
One group are saying he, s responsible for thousands of deaths, Starmer and a few other ill informed folk telling us he ( well his Mrs?)have spent too much money on a flat he doesn't and never will own.
Meanwhile back on planet earth literally thousands are dying every day of covid, in various places around world and we are discussing wall paper, flats, coffee and something that happened over 4 years ago, still getting the same old tired digs in... Quotes we, ve heard hundreds of times.. Rather sad really.
And, this attitude of discussing trivia and feeling to be living in a more normal situation is probably because the govt many love to criticise has handled vaccination so well.. And, I include Boris in that process along with all the vaccine suppliers, development teams, NHS, Mhra, JCVI, volunteers and folk involved in trials.
UK recently dropped to 14th on World wide death rate.
The trivia .. is that NI today" Celebrates " its 100 year anniversary, with the DUP in convulsions. The FM Ms Foster has lost the confidence of her party, for being too liberal!!!. The front runner is a person who believes in a 4000 year old earth.
Now if the prospect of a civil war or at least an internecine war within the UK, doesn't warm the cockles of your heart, perhaps a nice cuppa coffee will. And yes , this is Boriss doing.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
The trivia .. is that NI today" Celebrates " its 100 year anniversary, with the DUP in convulsions. The FM Ms Foster has lost the confidence of her party, for being too liberal!!!. The front runner is a person who believes in a 4000 year old earth.
Now if the prospect of a civil war or at least an internecine war within the UK, doesn't warm the cockles of your heart, perhaps a nice cuppa coffee will. And yes , this is Boriss doing.
I was talking about items discussed on here. The Centenary has not been mentioned and it seems to me many in Ireland look for reasons to throw petrol bombs at each other.
Whatever has happened doesn't excuse the behaviour we see there.
Its like blaming Glazers for idiots inside Old Trafford throwing bottles at Police. Yes, there are perhaps reasons to protest in both issues but not put lives at risk.
And, it's not Boris' fault that some lunatic throws petrol bombs. That is utter garbage and excuses the appalling behaviour
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
And, it's not Boris' fault that some lunatic throws petrol bombs.
The DUP trouble that has led to this is entirely Boris's fault. He promised Northern Ireland that there would be no border between the UK and N.I., then accepted an agreement with the EU that made one inevitable and permanent.

That is completely unacceptable to DUP unionism, something they'd long made clear.
.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
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Ireland
I was talking about items discussed on here. The Centenary has not been mentioned and it seems to me many in Ireland look for reasons to throw petrol bombs at each other.
Whatever has happened doesn't excuse the behaviour we see there.
Its like blaming Glasiers for idiots inside Old Trafford throwing bottles at Police. Yes, there are perhaps reasons to protest in both issues but not put lives at risk.
And, it's not Boris' fault that some lunatic throws petrol bombs. That is utter garbage and excuses the appalling behaviour
Look I don't bother with UK politicans as a rule, and it is yer decision whether Tweedledee or Tweebledum occupies a certain flat. However BJ was fundementally responsible for the current situation in NI. He lied over his intentions regarding a border in the Irish Sea, Foster et al stomached that until they could no longer..the rioting in the NI is the direct result of that.
For a change I am looking at this from the disenchanted young DUP wannabe..they have nobody in Westminster who listens to them. They hung their flagg on the principle that Westminster would watch their back and they have found themselves left out to dry. Everyone in NI knew Brexit was a bad idea, but blind loyalty to the notion of Crown forced the DUP along that path. Everyone in Ireland knew that a whole Island approach to CV19 would have been better, but the DUP toed the Westminster line.
When a people feel abandoned ,they dispair
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
The DUP trouble that has led to this is entirely Boris's fault. He promised Northern Ireland that there would be no border between the UK and N.I., then accepted an agreement with the EU that made one inevitable and permanent.

That is completely unacceptable to DUP unionism, something they'd long made clear.
.
Boris' mistake was initially saying there would be no border. You don't have to think about it long to know full well once UK leaves EU there must be a border, probably at the behest of EU more so than UK.
Singling Boris out is inaccurate, the situation is such that there must be a border. DUP were naive to think any different. So yes, there are problems, has Boris caused them. No, the fact we have left EU has.
And, the point wasn't whether there are problems it was the apparent logic of many in Ireland thinking they can resort to violence when situation caused by democracy presents situations they dislike. Throwing petrol bombs can not be placed as Boris' cause. Violence, throwing petrol bombs and such is simply some people's attempts to have more influence than democracy gives them. That is neither this government's or Boris' fault. It's reality.

The situation in Ireland and specifically NI has been used as a leverage in an attempt by remainers to say. "look, you have caused this violence" to leavers.. Its blackmail. Blocking a democratic choice because a few radical extremists are likely to resort to violence is not on.
The violence we have seen recently in NI is unacceptable and not justified at all.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
Boris' mistake was initially saying there would be no border.
It was no mistake, he knew full well the consequences but with his usual disregard for anyone or anything other than his own momentary self interest, he went ahead anyway.

How you can constantly defend this vile apology for a human being is beyond me.

And you are wrong that there had to be a border between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Boris Johnson campaigned for total departure from the EU, the people marginally voted for that and the powerful right of his party supported that. If he had for just once in his life kept a promise, the only border would have been along the Channel between the UK and the EU and the DUP would have been happy, at least until the consequences of Brexit became clear.

These N.I. troubles are entirely of Boris Johnson's making, he is solely responsible for setting peace for them and us back decades.
.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
14,609
West West Wales
Boris' mistake was initially saying there would be no border. You don't have to think about it long to know full well once UK leaves EU there must be a border, probably at the behest of EU more so than UK.
Singling Boris out is inaccurate, the situation is such that there must be a border. DUP were naive to think any different. So yes, there are problems, has Boris caused them. No, the fact we have left EU has.
And, the point wasn't whether there are problems it was the apparent logic of many in Ireland thinking they can resort to violence when situation caused by democracy presents situations they dislike. Throwing petrol bombs can not be placed as Boris' cause. Violence, throwing petrol bombs and such is simply some people's attempts to have more influence than democracy gives them. That is neither this government's or Boris' fault. It's reality.

The situation in Ireland and specifically NI has been used as a leverage in an attempt by remainers to say. "look, you have caused this violence" to leavers.. Its blackmail. Blocking a democratic choice because a few radical extremists are likely to resort to violence is not on.
The violence we have seen recently in NI is unacceptable and not justified at all.
Boris (or Johnson, as I prefer) IS the mistake. Or at least ranks alongside the huge mistake of brexit.

What he said is towards irrelevant as surely no-one believes anything he says?
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Boris' mistake was initially saying there would be no border. You don't have to think about it long to know full well once UK leaves EU there must be a border, probably at the behest of EU more so than UK.
Singling Boris out is inaccurate, the situation is such that there must be a border. DUP were naive to think any different. So yes, there are problems, has Boris caused them. No, the fact we have left EU has.
And, the point wasn't whether there are problems it was the apparent logic of many in Ireland thinking they can resort to violence when situation caused by democracy presents situations they dislike. Throwing petrol bombs can not be placed as Boris' cause. Violence, throwing petrol bombs and such is simply some people's attempts to have more influence than democracy gives them. That is neither this government's or Boris' fault. It's reality.

The situation in Ireland and specifically NI has been used as a leverage in an attempt by remainers to say. "look, you have caused this violence" to leavers.. Its blackmail. Blocking a democratic choice because a few radical extremists are likely to resort to violence is not on.
The violence we have seen recently in NI is unacceptable and not justified at all.
Prime Ministers do not make mistakes . They head an entire civil service , they have competent advisors in every discipline. They are the spokesperson for a very well oiled machine . They articulate GOVERNMENT policy. Its what the job title means.
The situation in September 2018 was that time was running out, and the UK was heading for a cliff edge drop out . BJ decided to meet with the Irish PM ..Leo ,and see if they could arrange something. The something was a border in the Irish Sea. BJ then sold this as a success in Westminster, and fudged it in Stormont. The DUP were not impressed, but kept their powder dry. The EU accepted the compromise , because Ireland was prepared not to veto it. ..and the Trade agreement ratified.
Except it was a pack of lies .. at every hands turn, the British Government has squealed and threatened breaking the agreement. Now the Ulster Protestants , particularly the DUP fundamentalist types are not very subtle ..Blunt ,you might say, but they keep their grudges and their word. In this they are honourable.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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because the govt many love to criticise has handled vaccination so well.
No it hasn't !

if anything the medical profession are worthy of praise, it's a bit mad to praise a Government that has caused so may unnecessary casualties with anything other than not getting in the way of the professionals.

Praise should be EARNED not claimed as if by right, for merely helping solve a dire problem for which they bear a dire responsibility
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,197
30,602
Now the Ulster Protestants , particularly the DUP fundamentalist types are not very subtle ..Blunt ,you might say, but they keep their grudges and their word. In this they are honourable.
Indeed, they are something Boris Johnson never is, they are always principled.
.
 

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