Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Supression of data is in my mind a much more serious academic and professional crime than plagarism.

I think the explanation is simpler than that. Our hospitals have been hit so hard by Covid to the point that non urgent CT scans are much delayed - current waiting lists run into millions.
Countries that reported CVST cases don't have queues at their scanners.
I am usually interested in cell biochemistry. The strange thing in this case is low count of platelets associated with clots.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

The EU will receive over 200 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine in the next 3 months.
People in Germany for example can choose Pfizer if they so wish.

They should choose PB and ditch AZ altogether so that the AZ can go where it will be used efficiently.

 

[Danidl]

They should choose PB and ditch AZ altogether so that the AZ can go where it will be used efficiently.

not a bad suggestion .. one of your better ones. Germany is wealthy enough, intends to use 3 week window between jabs and has the necessary infrastructure for cold chain delivery of a modern economy

 

[Danidl]

I think the explanation is simpler than that. Our hospitals have been hit so hard by Covid to the point that non urgent CT scans are much delayed - current waiting lists run into millions.
Countries that reported CVST cases don't have queues at their scanners.
I am usually interested in cell biochemistry. The strange thing in this case is low count of platelets associated with clots.

yes, I had not factored in the infrastructure. In fairness it would not be much better here, although ICU availability has been under less pressure of late.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

not a bad suggestion .. one of your better ones. Germany is wealthy enough, intends to use 3 week window between jabs and has the necessary infrastructure for cold chain delivery of a modern economy

I can’t see much sign of it.

 

[Woosh]

They should choose PB and ditch AZ altogether so that the AZ can go where it will be used efficiently.

the Astra Zeneca vaccine is produced using a more complicated process.
They rely on cell cultures.
AZ themselves don't have much experience in this field so when they try to scale up production, it takes much longer than they expected.
Also, the problem they have at their plant in Belgium added extra delay.
Our government got one thing right, we have got as many doses of Pfizer as AZ.
We need the Pfizer so we have to settle with the EU to share vaccines because in the long run, we need them more than they need us.

 

[oyster]

That's gone and done it! Now that Johnson has recommended AZ, not sure I (or anyone else) will ever trust it.

The facile, stupid, "it didn't hurt" as a basis for us to accept it is so insulting to those who have had side effects, sometimes serious, and almost never within a couple of hours. Often days later.

 

[Danidl]

the Astra Zeneca vaccine is produced using a more complicated process.
They rely on cell cultures.
AZ themselves don't have much experience in this field so when they try to scale up production, it takes much longer than they expected.
Also, the problem they have at their plant in Belgium added extra delay.
Our government got one thing right, we have got as many doses of Pfizer as AZ.
We need the Pfizer so we have to settle with the EU to share vaccines because in the long run, we need them more than they need us.

Woosh, my understanding , which may be defective is that the PB or moderna process is much more complex and is more like building nano Lego . and that the AZ is more traditional ,.. more like brewing followed by filtration this means that the AZ process is more scalable , as well as producing a more durable product .. DNA is more robust than RNA .
They both have different strengths . The AZ is pure volume and not easy to customise, whereas we all know how flexible Lego is.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

 

[oldgroaner]

Well I, m glad it's all cleared up over vaccines in EU and France especially.
They are preventing anybody under 55 from having AZ, apparently they are still ignoring EMA and have decided this age group are more likely to have clots, and since the vaccine is quasi effective for over 65s they are concentrating efforts on those between 55 and 65. When interviewed, however, 52% of this age group were going to refuse AZ because it doesn't work,unless you want a blood clot.
What a joke. In mean time Paris is entering stricter lockdown and leaders there saying they don't have enough time for vaccines to slow down this current wave.. What have they done?
Oh, and in mean time 3 Scandinavian countries are, (in name of consistency??) continuing their stance of ignoring all the new data highlighted by Danidl, (that's irony Danidl) ignoring EMA and WHO and continuing their suspension of AZ.
Saying EU vaccine roll out is a shambles is an insult to the word shambles. How on earth can anyone defend this utter nightmare of the vaccine roll out.
Perhaps Danidl can churn out some data showing that AZ vaccine should be suspended by Scandinavian countries, used by others fully and used for age group 55 to 65 in France. There is nothing like EU solidarity is there. I wonder which science they are all following.Obviously quite a range of scientists, all sitting their O levels in a few years.
I don't think even Flecc or Danidl can find anything to justify this broken, inconsistent, fragmented and almost juvenile attempt.
Just remind me Flecc, what purpose exactly does EMA fulfill. Gives advice and every country, even though having agreed to joint approach and procurement, then ignores them to varying extent..
EU couldn't run a raffle.

Still failing to understand as usual
The EU doesn't govern France, and said the vaccine is OK
That tiny detail has never stopped you blaming them in the past has it?
Another little bit you missed
We left the EU and all this bull is being used to divert attention from events here

 

[oldgroaner]

new variants, my arse

Best put your arse into lockdown to protect it polly!

 

[Zlatan]

Still failing to understand as usual
The EU doesn't govern France, and said the vaccine is OK
That tiny detail has never stopped you blaming them in the past has it?
Another little bit you missed
We left the EU and all this bull is being used to divert attention from events here

Exclusive: Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threat to UK

Drugmaker warns Brussels that UK has power to retaliate against any export ban by withholding raw materials shipped from Yorkshire

www.telegraph.co.uk

Of course EU hasn't got anything to do with it.
If all you EU champions opened your eyes and actually admitted truth, we might actually get somewhere on here. Fact of the matter is like all organisations and people they are never fully good or fully bad. The EU has through its terrible procurement regime, after taking responsibility for all procurement for entire EU, its slow and complicated review system and its general poor organisation delayed vaccine roll out accross EU by at least 3 months. They have made a mess of it. Fact. It happens, we all make mistakes. The secret is to recognise the fact, change and move on. Not ignore the faults, blame others and dig yourself deeper in.
Its just so blatant, folk defending EU, passing blame to individual countries, or UK or AZ themselves and then even the data really should take a look at themselves. Susan made a great contribution yesterday. What happens on here. She was wrong.
Its exactly the attitude that caused Brexit and guaranteed it. Folk unwilling to recognise when EU was wrong.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

We left the EU and all this bull is being used to divert attention from events here

600,000 people vaccinated here in the U.K. on Thursday. Infection falling, hospitalisation falling and deaths falling. All as predicted by JVT and his colleagues. Are these the events he’s trying to divert attention away from?

France going into lockdown to fight off a third wave, their vaccination rollout a pitiful shambles, same in Italy & Germany. They are sat on over 15 000 000 doses of vaccine they have stupidly and needlessly not used and now successfully put people off accepting. And still they moan about wanting to get their hands on even more to sit on and fail to use.

If anyone doesn’t believe Micron, The Mafia and the Unfuckable German Pig aren’t playing politics with the Oxford vaccine, they are way beyond any help currently available.

 

[Woosh]

Woosh, my understanding , which may be defective is that the PB or moderna process is much more complex and is more like building nano Lego . and that the AZ is more traditional ,.. more like brewing followed by filtration this means that the AZ process is more scalable , as well as producing a more durable product .. DNA is more robust than RNA .
They both have different strengths . The AZ is pure volume and not easy to customise, whereas we all know how flexible Lego is.

as I understand, there are 3 main steps in making the Pfizer vaccine: produce the plasmids with e-coli, extract and purify the mRNA and encapsulation of the purified mRNA in nano sized fatty shells. The first step involves cell culture and takes months, the second weeks and the last step days.
There are only two steps in making the AZ vaccine, the third step above is not required: make the modified human kidney cells and infect them with the seed adenovirus. When the brewing process is finished, extract and purify the adenovirus.
The difference in production yield is essentially down to industrial muscle, how to grow cells and purify the mRNA/virus quickly.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Exclusive: Pfizer warns EU to back down on Covid vaccine threat to UK

Drugmaker warns Brussels that UK has power to retaliate against any export ban by withholding raw materials shipped from Yorkshire

www.telegraph.co.uk

Of course EU hasn't got anything to do with it.

I hope the U.K. doesn’t retaliate by blocking exports. We are better than that. Those tactics are the preserve of the treacherous, snide oily pigmy and his backers.

The EU is in desperate need of our help at this time and the U.K. should do what it always does, put aside personal dislike and help those in need.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

as I understand, there are 3 main steps in making the Pfizer vaccine: produce the plasmids with e-coli, extract and purify the mRNA and encapsulation of the purified mRNA in nano sized fatty shells. The first step involves cell culture and takes months, the second weeks and the last step days.
There are only two steps in making the AZ vaccine, the third step above is not required: make the modified human kidney cells and infect them with the seed adenovirus. When the brewing process is finished, extract and purify the adenovirus.
The difference in production yield is essentially down to industrial muscle, how to grow cells and purify the mRNA/virus quickly.

It’s ok, we aren’t the French, we will help if it’s needed and we won’t block vaccine for political reasons.

 

[Zlatan]

And Danidl
You slip in a throw away comment that yes you now agree with JHC that even if figures were 10 fold worse for clotting then you, d still want jab.How big of you.
How, ironic, really. EMA, JCVI, WHO said all that nearly 2 weeks ago. It's taken you and half of EU all this time to accept "vaccine is safe" yet the fiasco caused has delayed situation further and reduced confidence well below a dangerous level. For what? So you could play statistician for a few days and exchange big words on here. In mean time pandemic is raging and people dying or as Susan explained stuck in an intolerable way of life waiting for hope.

 

[Woosh]

600,000 people vaccinated here in the U.K. on Thursday. Infection falling, hospitalisation falling and deaths falling. All as predicted by JVT and his colleagues. Are these the events he’s trying to divert attention away from?

that's excellent result but we don't know for sure how much of it is due to lockdown and how much to immunisation.
BJ times the vaccination well, just in time for May election and before the economy is fully released.
The comparison with the EU is not rational, they have not locked down completely in the last 3 months like we do.

 

[Woosh]

It’s ok, we aren’t the French, we will help if it’s needed and we won’t block vaccine for political reasons.

we won't and we can't. We need their Pfizer.
We don't produce enough AZ here to meet our own need.
Pfizer makes up half of our requirement until the end of the year.
To suggest that the EU hates our success shows that we have a chip on our shoulder.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

that's excellent result but we don't know for sure how much of it is due to lockdown and how much to immunisation.
BJ times the vaccination well, just in time for May election and before the economy is fully released.
The comparison with the EU is not rational, they have not locked down completely in the last 3 months like we do.

and we have locked down? Have you been outside your house?