Brexit, for once some facts.

Jesus H Christ

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 31, 2020
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Well I, m glad it's all cleared up over vaccines in EU and France especially.
They are preventing anybody under 55 from having AZ, apparently they are still ignoring EMA and have decided this age group are more likely to have clots, and since the vaccine is quasi effective for over 65s they are concentrating efforts on those between 55 and 65. When interviewed, however, 52% of this age group were going to refuse AZ because it doesn't work,unless you want a blood clot.
What a joke. In mean time Paris is entering stricter lockdown and leaders there saying they don't have enough time for vaccines to slow down this current wave.. What have they done?
Oh, and in mean time 3 Scandinavian countries are, (in name of consistency??) continuing their stance of ignoring all the new data highlighted by Danidl, ignoring EMA and WHO and continuing their suspension of AZ.
Saying EU vaccine roll out is a shambles is an insult to the word shambles. How on earth can anyone defend this utter nightmare of the vaccine roll out.
Perhaps Danidl can churn out some data showing that AZ vaccine should be suspended by Scandinavian countries, used by others fully and used for age group 55 to 65 in France. There is nothing like EU solidarity is there. I wonder which science they are all following.
Too much unnecessary damage to the Oxford vaccine’s credibility has been done by various EU nations. Some using it, some refusing to use it and others putting tight age restrictions on its use. People aren’t going to accept the Oxford vaccine in mainland Europe. The EMA and WHO are largely being ignored.

The whole vaccination rollout in Europe is pitiful. I hope new variants don’t emerge as infection rates start to take off and eventually rage out of control.
 

POLLY

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Aug 10, 2016
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Chesterfield
Too much unnecessary damage to the Oxford vaccine’s credibility has been done by various EU nations. Some using it, some refusing to use it and others putting tight age restrictions on its use. People aren’t going to accept the Oxford vaccine in mainland Europe. The EMA and WHO are largely being ignored.

The whole vaccination rollout in Europe is pitiful. I hope new variants don’t emerge as infection rates start to take off and eventually rage out of control.
new variants, my arse
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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new variants, my arse
Another request Polly?

The totally useless UK roll out reached 26.4 million single jabs (cumulative) today. (approaching 50% of target group UK)
England has hit milestone of 50% of target groups. (single jabs)
Around 4% 2nd jabs.

Daughter just back from volunteering at a mass vaccination centre. They gave out 4335 jabs today.
 
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POLLY

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Another request Polly?

The totally useless UK roll out reached 26.4 million single jabs (cumulative) today. (approaching 50% of target group UK)
England has hit milestone of 50% of target groups. (single jabs)
Around 4% 2nd jabs.

Daughter just back from volunteering at a mass vaccination centre. They gave out 4335 jabs today.
100% bull crap
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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This is a fuller section from the EMAs document... Of Yesterday, . In essence it gives the answer as to why the EMA acted as they did. Note that the initial concerns raised in Austria on 9 th March, where there was a death and a few CVT serous non fatalities, was assumed batch QC related ..from a batch which made 1M doses.
EMA’s safety committee, PRAC, concluded its preliminary review of a signal of blood clots in people vaccinated with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca at its extraordinary meeting of 18 March 2021. The Committee confirmed that:

  • the benefits of the vaccine in combating the still widespread threat of COVID-19 (which itself results in clotting problems and may be fatal) continue to outweigh the risk of side effects;
  • the vaccine is not associated with an increase in the overall risk of blood clots (thromboembolic events) in those who receive it;
  • there is no evidence of a problem related to specific batches of the vaccine or to particular manufacturing sites;
  • however, the vaccine may be associated with very rare cases of blood clots associated with thrombocytopenia, i.e. low levels of blood platelets (elements in the blood that help it to clot) with or without bleeding, including rare cases of clots in the vessels draining blood from the brain (CVST).
These are rare cases – around 20 million people in the UK and EEA had received the vaccine as of March 16 and EMA had reviewed only 7 cases of blood clots in multiple blood vessels (disseminated intravascular coagulation, DIC) and 18 cases of CVST. A causal link with the vaccine is not proven, but is possible and deserves further analysis.

The PRAC involved experts in blood disorders in its review, and worked closely with other health authorities including the UK’s MHRA which has experience with administration of this vaccine to around 11 million people. Overall the number of thromboembolic events reported after vaccination, both in studies before licensing and in reports after rollout of vaccination campaigns (469 reports, 191 of them from the EEA), was lower than that expected in the general population. This allows the PRAC to confirm that there is no increase in overall risk of blood clots. However, in younger patients there remain some concerns, related in particular to these rare cases.

The Committee’s experts looked in extreme detail at records of DIC and CVST reported from Member States, 9 of which resulted in death. Most of these occurred in people under 55 and the majority were women. Because these events are rare, and COVID-19 itself often causes blood clotting disorders in patients, it is difficult to estimate a background rate for these events in people who have not had the vaccine. However, based on pre-COVID figures it was calculated that less than 1 reported case of DIC might have been expected by 16 March among people under 50 within 14 days of receiving the vaccine, whereas 5 cases had been reported. Similarly, on average 1.35 cases of CVST might have been expected among this age group whereas by the same cut-off date there had been 12. A similar imbalance was not visible in the older population given the vaccine.

The Committee was of the opinion that the vaccine’s proven efficacy in preventing hospitalisation and death from COVID-19 outweighs the extremely small likelihood of developing DIC or CVST. However, in the light of its findings, patients should be aware of the remote possibility of such syndromes, and if symptoms suggestive of clotting problems occur patients should seek immediate medical attention and inform healthcare professionals of their recent vaccination. Steps are already being taken to update the product information for the vaccine to include more information on these risks.

The PRAC will undertake additional review of these risks, including looking at the risks with other types of COVID-19 vaccines (although no signal has been identified from monitoring so far). Close safety monitoring of reports of blood clotting disorders will continue, and further studies are being instituted to provide more laboratory data as well as real-world evidence. EMA will communicate further as appropriate.
Shame half of EU are ignoring it like they did last week.(the bit which says it's safe and effective for all age groups, like it did last week)
 

Woosh

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I don't think even Flecc or Danidl can find anything to justify this broken, inconsistent, fragmented and almost juvenile attempt.
Just remind me Flecc, what purpose exactly does EMA fulfill. Gives advice and every country, even though having agreed to joint approach and procurement, then ignores them to varying extent..
EU couldn't run a raffle.
WHO advises all countries and you don't see anything wrong when local strategies differ.
EMA advises EU countries and when their state strategies differ, you call it shambles.
why? because you hate the EU?
 
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Woosh

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Too much unnecessary damage to the Oxford vaccine’s credibility has been done by various EU nations.
strange imagination.
I really have difficulty to see any justification to claim of reputation damage.
There is a possible link to DIC and CVST and it is applicable to Pfizer too, albeit that the study starts with AZ.
You should know that before some EU countries stopped the AZ vaccine, UK authorities stats did not list yellow cards on CVST, only on PE and DVT. Now they do.

That's one good thing to come out of this saga.

Al countries should be vigilant when we have to commit so many of our citizens to the program without checking their medical background nor if the dosage is appropriate for their personal weight for example.
 
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Danidl

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Too much unnecessary damage to the Oxford vaccine’s credibility has been done by various EU nations. Some using it, some refusing to use it and others putting tight age restrictions on its use. People aren’t going to accept the Oxford vaccine in mainland Europe. The EMA and WHO are largely being ignored.

The whole vaccination rollout in Europe is pitiful. I hope new variants don’t emerge as infection rates start to take off and eventually rage out of control.
Remember, without the EUs Vaccine exports to the UK, you would have only about 12M people with a single jab of AZ by this stage. The GREATEST DAMAGE to the Credibility of the AZ vaccine has been its limited supply. The AZ has not been a big player in Europe, . only about 10% of vaccinations have been AZ. Ireland would have been more unusual and we had upwards of 20%
It was not there when it was expected,
Only 40% of the expected number was going to be made available , this has been sequentially reduced to 30% and even that was being delayed.
Oh and the data on elderly cohorts was insufficient to make a judgement. Yes one could GUESS , maybe even an educated guess , but not a Judgement.
Then after 3 weeks use, the blood clots appear. in the younger cohort , and of course when the EMA asks the UK, have they experience ...the UK response is .. NOPE ... much less than even random expectation would suggest.
Would that sequence fill you with confidence?
 
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Woosh

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In Germany, 1.6 millions got given the AZ vaccine, eight people have been diagnosed with CVST within about two weeks of vaccination. Normally 1 to 1.4 cases would have been expected during that time.
That's 6-8 times higher than the number expected.
We use 12 million doses of AZ - if the level of scrutiny is the same, one would expect 7.5 times the number of incidents that occurred in Germany, 50 cases not 5. One possible explanation is the long queue at the scanners in the UK.
 
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Danidl

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Shame half of EU are ignoring it like they did last week.(the bit which says it's safe and effective for all age groups, like it did last week)
Which half?. France, Germany had within hours removed the temporary hold, Ireland did so today.
 

Jesus H Christ

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 31, 2020
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In Germany, 1.6 millions got given the AZ vaccine, eight people have been diagnosed with CVST within about two weeks of vaccination. Normally 1 to 1.4 cases would have been expected during that time.
That's 6-8 times higher than the number expected.
We use 12 million doses of AZ - if the level of scrutiny is the same, one would expect 7.5 times the number of incidents that occurred in Germany, 50 cases not 5. One possible explanation is the long queue at the scanners in the UK.
Seriously, they need decide if they are going to use it. If the rate is 6 to 8 times higher, which I doubt, I’d still take it. In fact, I did last Friday, my wife yesterday. The risk of death is still lower than the risk of death from Covid.

The square headed, leather short wearing, sausage eating fuckers need to decide if they are going to use it, yes or no. If it’s no, send the vaccine where it will be used. You can’t **** about crippled with indecision in the midst of a global pandemic. Unfortunately, the urgency dictates greater risks must be taken. If they won’t accept an enhanced risk, fine, but don’t buy a vaccine you won’t use.
 

Woosh

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Seriously, they need decide if they are going to use it. If the rate is 6 to 8 times higher, which I doubt, I’d still take it. In fact, I did last Friday, my wife yesterday. The risk of death is still lower than the risk of death from Covid.
The EU will receive over 200 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine in the next 3 months.
People in Germany for example can choose Pfizer if they so wish.
 
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Danidl

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In Germany, 1.6 millions got given the AZ vaccine, eight people have been diagnosed with CVST within about two weeks of vaccination. Normally 1 to 1.4 cases would have been expected during that time.
That's 6-8 times higher than the number expected.
We use 12 million doses of AZ - if the level of scrutiny is the same, one would expect 7.5 times the number of incidents that occurred in Germany, 50 cases not 5.
I indicated a few times last week that there might be under reporting in the UK . Supression of data is in my mind a much more serious academic and professional crime than plagarism. or even theft The EU alarm bells started ringing at 3 Million doses in the EU
 
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Danidl

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Seriously, they need decide if they are going to use it. If the rate is 6 to 8 times higher, which I doubt, I’d still take it. In fact, I did last Friday, my wife yesterday. The risk of death is still lower than the risk of death from Covid.

The square headed, leather short wearing, sausage eating fuckers need to decide if they are going to use it, yes or no. If it’s no, send the vaccine where it will be used. You can’t **** about crippled with indecision in the midst of a global pandemic. Unfortunately, the urgency dictates greater risks must be taken. If they won’t accept an enhanced risk, fine, but don’t buy a vaccine you won’t use.
The EU and EMA have been extremely clear on this topic. The EMA did not issue a HALT notice. , The national authorities did, The EMA conducted a rapid and through investigation and identified flaws .. including it must be said in the UKs data collection.. otherwise it could not have been BELOW RANDOM! . Within a few hours of the EMAs report, the German authorities had rescinded the Halt and AZ is back on track.
However there is one point I will agree with you on... Even were the incidence of Blood clots 10 fold higher, it would still be a worthwhile gamble.
 

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