Brexit, for once some facts.

[Suzan]

I sometimes can't quite believe what I read in here.
Some people are excusing, actually justifying what has been a terrible vaccine deployment, generally across EU and more specifically in France. People judge in splendid isolation, sat here in UK having had perhaps both vaccines and at least one.
I, m French, I was born and brought up in a relatively wealthy area of Paris. I moved to Devon years ago with my English husband.
Both my parents are secluded away in care homes in Paris. Neither have had vaccine. Neither have seen either me or other siblings or grand children for at least 6 months. Both think this situation is worse than the occupation they lived through during war.
Their fear is not just of dying of covid but of dying before seeing any semblance of normal life, like meals out, visits from kids etc. Any delay, no matter how short is catastrophic for them. They both want the vaccine and as yet have seen no sign of getting one. Yet, somehow folk on here think EU and France have done a fair job.
My husband's father had his first vaccine on 28th January, his second yesterday. He has seen grandkids and is planning trips out and visits. The two situations can not be compared. The UK has without doubt done a fantastic job with vaccine roll out. Those benefitting from it should appreciate the fact and stop moaning about single jab. Some would love to be in that position.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

I sometimes can't quite believe what I read in here.
Some people are excusing, actually justifying what has been a terrible vaccine deployment, generally across EU and more specifically in France. People judge in splendid isolation, sat here in UK having had perhaps both vaccines and at least one.
I, m French, I was born and brought up in a relatively wealthy area of Paris. I moved to Devon years ago with my English husband.
Both my parents are secluded away in care homes in Paris. Neither have had vaccine. Neither have seen either me or other siblings or grand children for at least 6 months. Both think this situation is worse than the occupation they lived through during war.
Their fear is not just of dying of covid but of dying before seeing any semblance of normal life, like meals out, visits from kids etc. Any delay, no matter how short is catastrophic for them. They both want the vaccine and as yet have seen no sign of getting one. Yet, somehow folk on here think EU and France have done a fair job.
My husband's father had his first vaccine on 28th January, his second yesterday. He has seen grandkids and is planning trips out and visits. The two situations can not be compared. The UK has without doubt done a fantastic job with vaccine roll out. Those benefitting from it should appreciate the fact and stop moaning about single jab. Some would love to be in that position.

A fantastic post.

You are wasting your time, OG, flecc, Woosh and Danidl will argue with great passion that EU nations are doing a fantastic job and the U.K. has got it all wrong. They will criticise the U.K. for vaccinating 24 million people, but praise EU nations for suspending vaccination as a third wave hits.

They are ill and suffer from an anti U.K.disease, so it’s not entirely their fault

 

[flecc]

It’s tricky to determine exactly what has gone off with my wife. We’ve sent a factual account of the experience to our GP and asked for his advice. I’ll wait and see what comes back.

As a minimum I’m of the opinion she needs an antibody test.

Oyster is right, they don't like to admit to mistakes, so even your GP might not be the best to ask. Follow your instincts and push for the test.

I once had a blood test where the nurse at the health centre pushed the needle right through the vein and out the other side, so was only getting a slight seepage of blood. Knowing what she'd done I advised in a friendly manner that if she withdrew it a tiny amount she'd get the blood from within the vein. She did that and succeeded, but from them on was bad tempered with a face as black as thunder as though it was my fault!
.

 

[flecc]

Some people are excusing, actually justifying what has been a terrible vaccine deployment, generally across EU and more specifically in France. People judge in splendid isolation, sat here in UK having had perhaps both vaccines and at least one.
I, m French, I was born and brought up in a relatively wealthy area of Paris.

That's exaggeration, I haven't seen anyone post that the EU or it's member countries are doing a good job with the vaccine deployment. What some of us are doing is defending the EU against some of the wrong and grossly unfair exaggerations by two persons who have been known for years for being vehemently and often irrationally anti EU in every way and with any excuse.

Although defending the EU in that way, I've also been very critical of it's obvious defects while giving the reasons why those are often unavoidable, given the interim nature of the EU and its structure.

Incidentally Woosh who has also been defending the EU and EMA in that way is also French like you and I've previously lived and worked in France and have an extended family of French relatives.
.

 

[flecc]

A fantastic post.

You are wasting your time, OG, flecc, Woosh and Danidl will argue with great passion that EU nations are doing a fantastic job and the U.K. has got it all wrong. They will criticise the U.K. for vaccinating 24 million people, but praise EU nations for suspending vaccination as a third wave hits.

They are ill and suffer from an anti U.K.disease, so it’s not entirely their fault

Untrue, read the post I made above. The EU is certainly not doing a fantastic job yet with their vaccine program and no-one has argued that.

And our UK experts have warned that we too will suffer a third wave this Autumn.
.

 

[Danidl]

I sometimes can't quite believe what I read in here.
Some people are excusing, actually justifying what has been a terrible vaccine deployment, generally across EU and more specifically in France. People judge in splendid isolation, sat here in UK having had perhaps both vaccines and at least one.
I, m French, I was born and brought up in a relatively wealthy area of Paris. I moved to Devon years ago with my English husband.
Both my parents are secluded away in care homes in Paris. Neither have had vaccine. Neither have seen either me or other siblings or grand children for at least 6 months. Both think this situation is worse than the occupation they lived through during war.
Their fear is not just of dying of covid but of dying before seeing any semblance of normal life, like meals out, visits from kids etc. Any delay, no matter how short is catastrophic for them. They both want the vaccine and as yet have seen no sign of getting one. Yet, somehow folk on here think EU and France have done a fair job.
My husband's father had his first vaccine on 28th January, his second yesterday. He has seen grandkids and is planning trips out and visits. The two situations can not be compared. The UK has without doubt done a fantastic job with vaccine roll out. Those benefitting from it should appreciate the fact and stop moaning about single jab. Some would love to be in that position.

Susan, as a person living in an EU country, I feel I have a say. The UK got in first and did a few very risky things.
1. It authorised vaccines before they were validated by the normal process. In order to do so , they indemnified the maker ..Pfizer and then AZ from legal action. And of course they paid extra ... Well the paying extra I don't care about, and that was a good call. Whether indemnity is a good call is yet to be determined.
2. They doubled the coverage by deciding to go against the protocol devised by Pfizer. Note ,I suspect they will not be permitted to do that with the Moderna , as we in Ireland were contracted by Moderna to hold 50% of the supply in reserve for the second jab at the recommended time delay of 3 weeks.
3. They rushed validation of the AZ , by omitting sufficient data on elderly cohorts.
4.They now run into difficulty in giving the second jab at even the 12 week interval.

These were all risks. #2 would not have legal but for the #1. #3,seems to have been an unqualified success.

The failure to ensure a second jab at the recommended interval is extremely risky..for reasons I have previously stated. The failure to ensure sufficient stocks for the second jab is dereliction... You don't commence an operation without having the sutures to bind the wound.
Europe has injected 56M doses and the UK has injected 25M doses. The difference being that the EU has fully vaccinated about 4% and the UK 2.7%

Now the problem is , as you indicated, that your in-laws will now feel that they are entitled to wander freely..as indeed will plenty of others with only the single dose, and even while your inlaws are unlikely to end up hospitalised, they can infect others.. especially those with only a single dose .

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Susan, as a person living in an EU country, I feel I have a say. The UK got in first and did a few very risky things.
1. It authorised vaccines before they were validated by the normal process. In order to do so , they indemnified the maker ..Pfizer and then AZ from legal action. And of course they paid extra ... Well the paying extra I don't care about, and that was a good call. Whether indemnity is a good call is yet to be determined.
2. They doubled the coverage by deciding to go against the protocol devised by Pfizer. Note ,I suspect they will not be permitted to do that with the Moderna , as we in Ireland were contracted by Moderna to hold 50% of the supply in reserve for the second jab at the recommended time delay of 3 weeks.
3. They rushed validation of the AZ , by omitting sufficient data on elderly cohorts.
4.They now run into difficulty in giving the second jab at even the 12 week interval.

These were all risks. #2 would not have legal but for the #1. #3,seems to have been an unqualified success.

The failure to ensure a second jab at the recommended interval is extremely risky..for reasons I have previously stated. The failure to ensure sufficient stocks for the second jab is dereliction... You don't commence an operation without having the sutures to bind the wound.
Europe has injected 56M doses and the UK has injected 25M doses. The difference being that the EU has fully vaccinated about 4% and the UK 2.7%

Now the problem is , as you indicated, that your in-laws will now feel that they are entitled to wander freely..as indeed will plenty of others with only the single dose, and even while your inlaws are unlikely to end up hospitalised, they can infect others.. especially those with only a single dose .

I think that’s the biggest load of horse shite you have posted to date.

The U.K. medical experts had great foresight and their vaccination programme has been successful. The vaccine procurement scheme by Kate Bingham was another example of great commercial agility. The balance between urgency of the global pandemic and risk has been well struck. The vaccination rollout has been safe with no significant adverse events.

You have no idea if things were unduly rushed. You are a stupid man with no knowledge.

It’s idiots such as yourself, getting bogged down in data you don’t understand whilst simultaneously holding a belief you know better than medical experts, that has led Europe to the mess it is currently in. Germany has a third wave of exponential infection growth. France & Italy aren’t far behind.

You are a dangerous fool. Stop posting misleading garbage. The evidence is in the situation in Europe.

 

[Woosh]

Some people are excusing, actually justifying what has been a terrible vaccine deployment, generally across EU and more specifically in France.

À ce jour, la France a administré 87 % des doses qui lui ont été livrées (8,1 millions de doses injectées pour 9,3 millions de doses réceptionnées). Le rythme de la vaccination suit le rythme des livraisons.

 

[oldgroaner]

Perhaps they should suspend roll out for a week to relook at figures. That seems to do trick.

The salient issue is not infection... Its death.
4 weeks after Pfizer jab my daughter, her husband and both kids picked infection up. They obviously counted as covid infections but speaking (zoom) throughout you would hardly have known any were ill. Now you could say that would have happened any way but I suspect they simply knew how to fight infection because of jab. It worked, but they still counted as infections.
We, ve been here before OG.

Yes and you still don't understand the difference between tactics and strategy

 

[oldgroaner]

You are a dangerous fool. Stop posting misleading garbage. The evidence is in the situation in Europe.

It is becoming annoying, I know you are an idiot, but you could sometimes turn the family brain cell on and try thinking, instead of simply giving a bigoted answer in an attempt to portray the ballsups being committed in this country as some sort of guiding light for others to follow.
What happens in Europe does not excuse the mistakes we make, even though those they do make seems to make you gloat.
They are in a position to make their own decisions for their own reasons.

 

[Woosh]

the problem is AZ has suffered lower production yield than expected, 100 million doses are missing schedule.
It's a catastrophe but nobody's fault.
we buy Pfizer from the EU and they buy AZ from us.
We buy all AZ UK's output, export nothing to the EU while buying AZ from any EU factory.
We have no choice now than sharing what is available otherwise, they'll keep their Pfizer and we'll keep our AZ. We'll lose out and no European holiday for us this year.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

It is becoming annoying, I know you are an idiot, but you could sometimes turn the family brain cell on and try thinking, instead of simply giving a bigoted answer in an attempt to portray the ballsups being committed in this country as some sort of guiding light for others to follow.
What happens in Europe does not excuse the mistakes we make, even though those they do make seems to make you gloat.
They are in a position to make their own decisions for their own reasons.

I didn’t try to excuse the mistakes made in this country. I have been critical when it’s right to do so. The notion of me making excuses exists only inside your biased mind.

I have not gloated either. The vaccine debacle in Europe affects me. I want them to get it right, because I’m not safe until they are.

It’s monumental ocean going idiots like Woosh & Danidl misinterpreting data and believing they have a greater understanding of medical issues than experts on medical issues that is holding them back.

 

[oldgroaner]

My wife had her vaccination yesterday. She came out of the vaccination centre holding a pad on her arm and a streak of dried watery blood stretching from just below her shoulder to her wrist.

She said that her arm felt wet as the vaccine was administered and that a watery liquid, tinged with blood dripped off her wrist. She has had absolutely no side effects. She questioned the man who performed the procedure if that was normal and he said, “yeah, it’s a good sign.”

Now are both wondering if he’s ****** up the injection and she has no protection. If he has botched it, this could leave her very vulnerable.

First, is this even possible? Can the vaccine leak out? Did it go in? How the hell I resolve this I don’t know. I can only think getting her an anti-body test an a couple of weeks might tell us something. What a fuckup!

I checked and the results were reassuring that this is not uncommon, here is a link

Winchester Hospital: Intramuscular injection

Hope that helps a little, wish her well on behalf of all one here
Regards
OG

 

[oldgroaner]

I didn’t try to excuse the mistakes made in this country. I have been critical when it’s right to do so. The notion of me making excuses exists only inside your biased mind.

I have not gloated either. The vaccine debacle in Europe affects me. I want them to get it right, because I’m not safe until they are.

It’s monumental ocean going idiots like Woosh & Danidl misinterpreting data and believing they have a greater understanding of medical issues than experts on medical issues that is holding them back.

You haven't gloated over the situation in Europe?
What a joke!
Lets qualify that, you haven't gloated with none EU countries doing it

Or it could of course be that their opinion isn't loaded with bias and is more objective than yours.
Guess who I believe?

 

[Woosh]

It’s monumental ocean going idiots like Woosh & Danidl misinterpreting data and believing they have a greater understanding of medical issues than experts on medical issues that is holding them back.

give it a break will you?

 

[Nev]

À ce jour, la France a administré 87 % des doses qui lui ont été livrées (8,1 millions de doses injectées pour 9,3 millions de doses réceptionnées). Le rythme de la vaccination suit le rythme des livraisons.

You do realise that JHC is going to read this and think he has died and instead of going to heaven he has ended up in his idea of hell (France).

 

[oldgroaner]

Yet, somehow folk on here think EU and France have done a fair job.

And who made such a statement?
Certainly not me

 

[Jesus H Christ]

give it a break will you?

I’m sorry but you and Danidl are posting on here in a manner which suggests that you believe you have greater knowledge than the experts. It’s dangerous. It’s foolish.

 

[Danidl]

I think that’s the biggest load of horse shite you have posted to date.

The U.K. medical experts had great foresight and their vaccination programme has been successful. The vaccine procurement scheme by Kate Bingham was another example of great commercial agility. The balance between urgency of the global pandemic and risk has been well struck. The vaccination rollout has been safe with no significant adverse events.

You have no idea if things were unduly rushed. You are a stupid man with no knowledge.

It’s idiots such as yourself, getting bogged down in data you don’t understand whilst simultaneously holding a belief you know better than medical experts, that has led Europe to the mess it is currently in. Germany has a third wave of exponential infection growth. France & Italy aren’t far behind.

You are a dangerous fool. Stop posting misleading garbage. The evidence is in the situation in Europe.

Rather than a blanket condemnation, a point by point rebuttal might be more logical.. And yes of course the process was rushed and of course steps were bypassed, even the spokeswoman in the UKs Vaccination regulator referenced that in November..when she was arguing that the Important milestones were checked in parallel. What do you understand as "rolling reviews " ? other than bypassing the normal process.
"The vaccination rollout has been safe with no significant adverse events." ... That is a hope not an established fact. I am delighted that a significant fraction of the UK 30+% population have received their initial dose, and where it is the AZ, I am confident that the 12 week window is fine. I am decidedly uncomfortable that there are now Millions are sitting with partial vaccination for probably 9 weeks .. AGAINST the ADVICE of the Designers.
I am not claiming I know better than the experts ..It is simply that we will not agree who are the experts. . I go with the Designers , the Regulators , and not the Politicians

 

[oldgroaner]

"I’m sorry but you and Danidl are posting on here in a manner which suggests that you believe you have greater knowledge than the experts. It’s dangerous. It’s foolish."
He suffers from Homer Simpson Syndrome
As Homer explained.

"Why don't I like thinking much?
My head is full of rubbish, and if I try to put some new rubbish in.
I have to push some of the old rubbish out to make room"