Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

That's like saying I cracked the code to my house alarm, when I fitted it myself.

Really? just think about what you said.
Covid: WHO says 'extremely unlikely' virus leaked from lab in China
Dr Peter Daszak, a member of the WHO team, said the focus on where the origins that led to Covid-19 might be, could be shifted to South East Asia.
"We've done a lot of work in China and if you map that back it starts to point towards the border and we know that there is very little surveillance on the other side in the whole region of South East Asia," he told the BBC's John Sudworth in Wuhan.
"China is a very big place and South East Asia is a very big place. The supply chains to the Huanan seafood market were extensive, they were coming in from other countries, they were coming in from various parts of China, so to really trace that back it's going to take some work."
He added that the focus should now be on those supply chains.

 

[oldgroaner]

But MHRA were involved throughout the trials process. They didn't just get sent the stuff at end, they were in the lorry when it was loaded, with it on the ferry and checking on driver throughout. They didn't need to search it, so they could wave it through faster.
Why are you belittling their efforts, I don't understand.
The development of vaccine was incredible, the people involved superb. Yes, it seems errors were made but MHRA/JVCI studied data and agreed with AZ.
Can you imagine you building a bike and some stranger just belittles your efforts and makes out you were lucky getting it through certification.. I don't understand what's going on in here.
Just about every aspect of Vaccine process has been incredible. From development, to testing to procurement and manufacture and all folk want to do is put every aspect down.
Why Woosh?
Is it just fashionable to knock anything to do with this government? I, d thought some could be rather more impartial than that.

Impartial as in your attitude to the EU?

 

[oldgroaner]

Agreed, I can see the danger in that but I can also see the benefits.All depends how it is done and how professional the people involved are. I, d guess if you don't trust those people whether they make decision in 2 weeks or 2 years is irrelevant. Personally I have faith in JVCI/PHE and MHRA so I don't have an issue.
If I thought they were all government lackeys well perhaps I, d have a problem.????

Someone does with the EU

 

[oldgroaner]

Agreed, I can see the danger in that but I can also see the benefits.All depends how it is done and how professional the people involved are. I, d guess if you don't trust those people whether they make decision in 2 weeks or 2 years is irrelevant. Personally I have faith in JVCI/PHE and MHRA so I don't have an issue.
If I thought they were all government lackeys well perhaps I, d have a problem.????

These so venerable people can make mistakes
Thalidomide comes to mind

 

[oldgroaner]

But MHRA were involved throughout the trials process. They didn't just get sent the stuff at end, they were in the lorry when it was loaded, with it on the ferry and checking on driver throughout. They didn't need to search it, so they could wave it through faster.
Why are you belittling their efforts, I don't understand.
The development of vaccine was incredible, the people involved superb. Yes, it seems errors were made but MHRA/JVCI studied data and agreed with AZ.
Can you imagine you building a bike and some stranger just belittles your efforts and makes out you were lucky getting it through certification.. I don't understand what's going on in here.
Just about every aspect of Vaccine process has been incredible. From development, to testing to procurement and manufacture and all folk want to do is put every aspect down.
Why Woosh?
Is it just fashionable to knock anything to do with this government? I, d thought some could be rather more impartial than that.

"Is it just fashionable to knock anything to do with this government? I, d thought some could be rather more impartial than that. "

Go on then give an example that is worthy of praise and not in fact a panic stricken reaction to the dreadful death statistics their mad policies were the main cause of.

 

[oldgroaner]

it seems that HMRA waved the vaccines through like Border Force does with lorries coming from Calais.
Holding up the vaccines was never an option.
Same thing with lengthening waiting time for the second jab.
Decisions were made. What follows was playing to the gallery.

Precisely and look how the gullible have been taken in by it, taking a risk has morphed almost into divine prescience, and all previous catastrophes negated and the appalling casualties and cost are just collateral damage.
That somehow no one else could have avoided.
Snag with that notion
Others did do much, much, better

 

[oldgroaner]

And just when we don't need bad news

"UK govt - and NIO cabinet minister Brandon Lewis - confirms that it has broken “for good” with the Northern Ireland Protocol. Legal action taken by EU against the UK now “unavoidable”.

Don't look! gloat about vaccination figures instead, or Megan and Harry!

 

[flecc]

Personally I have faith in JVCI/PHE and MHRA so I don't have an issue.

I have a lot of faith in their expertise too, but it's not blind faith in everything they do since experts, however good, do make terrible mistakes. The almost miraculous production of Covid vaccines in so short a time has been subject to many gambles along the way in the foreshortened trials, not bothering with peer reviews before use and marketing with only emergency approval, itself an unprecedented risk.

It was German and British experts who made the thalidomide mistake. It was the British government experts advising Thatcher that lower temperature processing of meat for animal food production was safe that led to BSE and the slow killing of large numbers of people from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD).

Only a fool would bet they were the last ever such expert mistakes.

On a lighthearted note, how about our expert physicists. They reckon that 90% of the universe we can't see, so they call it Dark Matter.

The silly chumps.

If it was Dark we could see it.

Clearly (ever so clearly) it is transparent matter.

That's why we can't see it.
.

 

[Woosh]

But MHRA were involved throughout the trials process. They didn't just get sent the stuff at end, they were in the lorry when it was loaded, with it on the ferry and checking on driver throughout. They didn't need to search it, so they could wave it through faster.

sure, they were on the same side as all of us, wanting the vaccine to succeed. But that is not their official function. Theirs is to check for potential issues like the blood clots.
We were very lucky that the AZ vaccine works so well with older people. It could have been very different story if it didn't. Also, the increase in protection after the first jab after 4 weeks is a stroke of luck. I bet nobody knew about it until the result comes in.
The current high level of positive tests at the moment also shows clearly that the vaccine has not substantially reduced simple transmission.

 

[oldgroaner]

I have a lot of faith in their expertise too, but it's not blind faith in everything they do since experts, however good, do make terrible mistakes. The almost miraculous production of Covid vaccines in so short a time has been subject to many gambles along the way in the foreshortened trials, not bothering with peer reviews before use and marketing with only emergency approval, itself an unprecedented risk.

It was German and British experts who made the thalidomide mistake. It was the British government experts advising Thatcher that lower temperature processing of meat for animal food production was safe that led to BSE and the slow killing of large numbers of people from Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD).

Only a fool would bet they were the last ever such expert mistakes.

On a lighthearted note, how about our expert physicists. They reckon that 90% of the universe we can't see, so they call it Dark Matter.

The silly chumps.

If it was Dark we could see it.

Clearly (ever so clearly) it is transparent matter.

That's why we can't see it.
.

I "don't see "what you mean about so called dark matter, which pardoxically means I agree with your hypothesis!

 

[Zlatan]

I have a lot of faith in their expertise too, but it's not blind faith in everything they do since experts, however good, do make terrible mistakes. The almost miraculous production of Covid vaccines in so short a time has been subject to many gambles along the way in the foreshortened trials, not bothering with peer reviews before use and marketing with only emergency approval, itself an unprecedented risk.

It was German and British experts who made

I suppose it pays that somebody is cautious.

 

[oyster]

These so venerable people can make mistakes
Thalidomide comes to mind

A few years ago, the MHRA became aware that one make of a medicine was delivering significantly less of the active ingredient than it claimed. As low as 50% on a critical dose medicine.

The reason, as it eventually was explained, rested on the change of one of the inactive ingredients - which prevented the active ingredient from being made available for absorption.

The MHRA should have issued an immediate recall. But they didn't. They claimed that there had been production difficulties at another manufacturer. If they had issued a recall, there would not have been enough of the medicine available.

This meant that patients continued to get sub-potent medicine and suffer. Pharmacists and medics had no idea about the issue. If a patient changed make, they could suddenly get half, or double what they had been used to - with no warning whatsoever.

This undermined any faith I had in the MHRA.

Subsequent interactions with them have continued to accept that they have many staff with excellent qualifications. But when it comes to managing issues, they are towards the spineless end of the scale. (This doesn't necessarily reflect on the individuals who might try very hard to do the right thing. But the system prevents that happening.)

 

[oldgroaner]

This is a dangerous situation on Clapham common

And very unwise,all that will be achieved is more cases of Covid transmission
Not just that but it will be used as an excuse to impose even more stringent control of the public, as there is no way the police themselves can comply with Social distancing in this situation.
Torchlight procession are awfully familiar where a government either loses control, or is in fact engineering a confrontation to excuse tightening it's grip.
The people who turned up were foolish in the extreme, what good do they imagine it will do?

 

[oldgroaner]

I suppose it pays that somebody is cautious.

It's amazing how unpopular you can make yourself doing just that, isn't it?

 

[wheeler]

Normally agreed, but certainly didn't work for me since with no parking possibility in or around the health centre I couldn't use my car on that cold and wet February day, taking a cab there instead.

When I walked out after the jab it was bucketing with rain. Phoned for a cab but both local services said no cab for at least an hour, so it meant a long walk to the tram stop. As it came into sight I saw a tram just leaving so it was over 15 minutes wait in the cold and wet. When the next one came it only took me to the tram-buses interchange for the bus to my home, where having located the right number bus stop I started another wet wait. When a bus finally turned up it was going in the wrong direction and consulting the small print on the bus stop revealed it was only for that direction. So a quick explore in that big interchange and around the bend I located the other stop for that number bus, just as a bus was pulling away before I could get to it. Long wait number three in the cold and wet. When the bus finally turned up the driver parked before the bus stop, got out and locked the bus to go for his morning break in the canteen, leaving us at the stop in the rain for a bonus 15 minutes.

On getting home I couldn't have been further from relaxed.

Honestly if I'd known all this in advance I'd have skipped that apppointment for the Covid jab with an extra of likely pneumonia.
.

Sounds like you soft Southerners don't know how to dress for the weather.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

sure, they were on the same side as all of us, wanting the vaccine to succeed. But that is not their official function. Theirs is to check for potential issues like the blood clots.
We were very lucky that the AZ vaccine works so well with older people. It could have been very different story if it didn't. Also, the increase in protection after the first jab after 4 weeks is a stroke of luck. I bet nobody knew about it until the result comes in.
The current high level of positive tests at the moment also shows clearly that the vaccine has not substantially reduced simple transmission.

I suspect the increase in transmission is in the younger unvaccinated population. They are behaving like twats.

Early indications are that the vaccine is good at reducing transmission.

 

[Jesus H Christ]

Just watching Michael Foot on a 1980s documentary. That didn’t work out well did it?

 

[flecc]

This is a dangerous situation on Clapham common

The people who turned up were foolish in the extreme, what good do they imagine it will do?

They are obsessed with this latest silly anti-men vendetta. it's becoming far beyond a joke. I'm sure I'm not the only man sick of hearing their interminable shrieking on this subject.

Although unintentional, it's women who have created the situation, such as it is. The great majority of women killed in recent times suffer that in their own homes, but long ago in the days before today's emancipation, the killing of a wife by a husband was extremely rare.

Now women have made huge progress in equality, but the cost has been very high:

The beating and even killing of spouses has become much more common, men also suffering from this as well as women.

Marriage duration is the shortest it's ever been.

Even getting married has become far more rare.

Wive and husbands splitting up are thrown into uncertain futures.

The split ups into two units create an even worse housing shortage.

Their children's social lives and education and are disrupted and they often suffer severe emotional damage.

Men not unreasonably refuse to adopt traditional female roles, so women going out to work often find they have to keep doing all their traditional roles as well as working full time. A high price for equality, making it about as desirable as the sovereignty that Brexit has brought at high cost.

Although recent times have brought all this upon us even more, the root of the problem was very long ago and made clear by more primitive societies. Long ago men and women lived largely separate lives, the men hunting or later going out to work away from home, then spending their social time largely with other men. Women meanwhile had each other's company in their home areas while men were away.

It's long been clear that men and women generally do not mix comfortably for very long periods, socially or in interests, as witness the above ways in which they've naturally evolved the separations I've just mentioned.

All of which adds up to us having taken a wrong course in the way we live our lives. It's neither men nor women who need to personally change, it's our societal structures that need to be put back onto a sensible course that allows better compatibility for all of us.
.

 

[Zlatan]

They are obsessed with this latest silly anti-men vendetta. it's becoming far beyond a joke. I'm sure I'm not the only man sick of hearing their interminable shrieking on this subject.

Although unintentional, it's women who have created the situation, such as it is. The great majority of women killed in recent times suffer that in their own homes, but long ago in the days before today's emancipation, the killing of a wife by a husband was extremely rare.

Now women have made huge progress in equality, but the cost has been very high:

The beating and even killing of spouses has become much more common, men also suffering from this as well as women.

Marriage duration is the shortest it's ever been.

Even getting married has become far more rare.

Wive and husbands splitting up are thrown into uncertain futures.

The split ups into two units create an even worse housing shortage.

Their children's social lives and education and are disrupted and they often suffer severe emotional damage.

Men not unreasonably refuse to adopt traditional female roles, so women going out to work often find they have to keep doing all their traditional roles as well as working full time. A high price for equality, making it about as desirable as the sovereignty that Brexit has brought at high cost.

Although recent times have brought all this upon us even more, the root of the problem was very long ago and made clear by more primitive societies. Long ago men and women lived largely separate lives, the men hunting or later going out to work away from home, then spending their social time largely with other men. Women meanwhile had each other's company in their home areas while men were away.

It's long been clear that men and women generally do not mix comfortably for very long periods, socially or in interests, as witness the above ways in which they've naturally evolved the separations I've just mentioned.

All of which adds up to us having taken a wrong course in the way we live our lives. It's neither men nor women who need to personally change, it's our societal structures that need to be put back onto a sensible course that allows better compatibility for all of us.
.

Tell my wife and I, ll get off for a few months..
Seems to me flecc you ain't too happy with way things are... Marriage, Brexit, Tories, Vaccine, Equality, Men not socialising with other men (which I, ve always thought a touch perverse) and women having vote. Good god what is world coming to.
Been married 40 years this year... We, ve nearly worked things out.. Wouldn't want to have brought up kids with anyone else tho.. And men dancing around camp fires singing ging gang gooly ain't my bag.. Fairly happy with things as they are... Including Tories,marriage, kids, grandkidsJohnson, vaccines , Mhra, PHE, living with Mrs,motor bikes, ebikes, boats, and even doing all cooking ..so can't grumble... Nobody would listen any how... Cheer up Flecc. Things aren't that bad. Are they..?
You listen and believe OG too much. You, ll end up manic depressive.
Look on brightside. We ain't got comrade Corbyn in no 10 and we, ve left EU.. And we, ve got some working vaccines for covid.

 

[flecc]

Sounds like you soft Southerners don't know how to dress for the weather.

Not as simple as that I'm afraid. My heart and circulation problems plus Raynauds syndrome mean I cannot maintain adequate warmth and heat circulation around my body, regardless of what I'm wearing. I onky need to sense cold at any exposed surface like the face to have full circulation start to fail. When younger it mainly occurred at very low temperatures, but now it can be triggered in temeratures as high as 15 degrees C. No clothing helps when there's no warmth to be kept in.

It was this above all that prompted me to buy the Leaf, its instant heating making my life in winter much more bearable. There is no way I could justify it financially for my tiny mileage.
.