Brexit, for once some facts.

[Nev]

That's not how it works. It's basically a scheme to take money from the hedge funds.

I would probably re-phrase that to say it's basically a scheme to take money from some hedge funds. Robinhood, one of the stock trading brokerages heavily involved in all this makes a lot of money selling trading information to financial institutions such as large hedge funds. Other brokerage firms do the same thing, that information is not available to the likes of you or me.

My guess would be that some of the largest and smartest hedge funds and professional trading companies are the ones selling shares such as Gamestop to the reddit crowd. They will have bought these shares at very low levels several weeks or even months ago. They would have been watching data available from people like Robinhood for a while, they would also be totally aware of what short positions hedge funds or other individuals were taking.

Some of the reddit crowd will undoubtedly have made a fortune, but I suspect for a great many of them its all going to end up in tears. There is absolutely no way on any kind of metric that Gamestop is worth anything like the kind of money its share price is currently trading at.

I really like this well know saying when it comes to stock markets.

The father of value investing, Benjamin Graham, explained this concept by saying that in the short run, the market is like a voting machine--tallying up which firms are popular and unpopular. But in the long run, the market is like a weighing machine--assessing the substance of a company.

When people eventually get around to weighing what Gamestop is worth, some people are going to lose a great deal of money.

 

[flecc]

I overheard someone on the radio saying that the EU plan to suggest to the individual governments of the EU 27 that they individually decide if they want to allow vaccine made in their countries to be exported to a country not in the EU. Have you heard anything about this?

If this is correct (I may have miss understood it), then it will be up to the Belgian Government to decide if they want to let supplies of the Pfizer vaccine to be delivered to the UK.

The only things I know similar to this is that the EU, having secured guarantees on 2.3 billion doses, is leaving it to member states to decide on their own priority groups to establish the order of people getting the vaccines intheir country. Should all vaccines candidates turn out to be safe and effective, Member States will have the possibility to donate part of their share of doses to lower and middle income countries, which reads like philanthropic intent and a hint to the wealthier member countries.

But whether that means giving only to member countries I don't know, since the EU has said they will play their part in ensuring vaccines go to everyone on the world. However I can't see the UK getting favourable treatment in the current UK/EU antagonistic climate.
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[Woosh]

That's not how it works. It's basically a scheme to take money from the hedge funds. You find out what they've short traded on, then get everybody to buy the shares, which makes the price go up. Everybody that bought holds until the hedge fund is forced to close. When they close, they're forced to buy the shares at the higher pricefrom the guys that bought the shares against them. So the little guys get their profit from the hedge fund. As you can see, the hedge funds lost $70 billion. That money is now in the hands of the Wallstreetbets guys, so they don't lose. If there are a million of them, each has gained $70,000.

that's oversimplifying it.
Those fantasy shares are going to hit the wall sooner or later. All it takes is a rumour of issuance of new shares.
In the meantime, nothing stops the pros joining the pack and milk the hapless members.

 

[oldgroaner]

That’s a lot of cheese.

Indeed it is!!

 

[Danidl]

That's not how it works. It's basically a scheme to take money from the hedge funds. You find out what they've short traded on, then get everybody to buy the shares, which makes the price go up. Everybody that bought holds until the hedge fund is forced to close. When they close, they're forced to buy the shares at the higher pricefrom the guys that bought the shares against them. So the little guys get their profit from the hedge fund. As you can see, the hedge funds lost $70 billion. That money is now in the hands of the Wallstreetbets guys, so they don't lose. If there are a million of them, each has gained $70,000.

You could just as easily say that it's a false flag campaign by our Great Reset friends. One of the key points on their agenda is financial restructuring. This is very convenient for them.

The reason it's happening doesn't really matter. The fact is that it is happening is going to have a significant effect on how the financial institutions work. They've been manipulating markets for a long time. Now the little people have the power to manipulate against them and take their money. Short trading should never have been allowed. It's flippin obvious to any intelligent person that it's crooked. I heard that 140% of Gamestop shares had been short traded.

Yes . I do also understand the principle of short selling. But how sure which of the two scams this one is?.

 

[Danidl]

The only things I know similar to this is that the EU, having secured guarantees on 2.3 billion doses, is leaving it to member states to decide on their own priority groups to establish the order of people getting the vaccines intheir country. Should all vaccines candidates turn out to be safe and effective, Member States will have the possibility to donate part of their share of doses to lower and middle income countries, which reads like philanthropic intent and a hint to the wealthier member countries.

But whether that means giving only to member countries I don't know, since the EU has said they will play their part in ensuring vaccines go to everyone on the world. However I can't see the UK getting favourable treatment in the current UK/EU antagonistic climate.
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Every country , including everyone in the EU, has the equivalent of an Emergency Powers Act and can invoke it at a moment's notice . That means that they can stop any and every transaction, imprison people etc etc Now there are repercussions of course, and plenty of teeth gnashing and hand wringing but AFTER the event. However a second country cannot sue the first country for damages suffered after such an Act has been invoked. The second country would be free to walk away from any treaty obligations, so that is why it would be rare.

 

[Zlatan]

that's oversimplifying it.
Those fantasy shares are going to hit the wall sooner or later. All it takes is a rumour of issuance of new shares.
In the meantime, nothing stops the pros joining the pack and milk the hapless members.

Any commodity (and I use the term loosely) with zero real usefulness, no actual intrinsic value trades purely on perceived value gained through simple market force whims. At some stage, irrelevant to its current price, these shares will one day be worthless. Predicting that date is impossible but somebody trading in such shares must lose. Secret is making sure that is next owner and not you. To my mind trading in such is immoral. Its only an imagined price and never value. There is a big difference.
It should be outlawed. In effect you are selling something that does not exist.

 

[sjpt]

Any commodity (and I use the term loosely) with zero real usefulness, no actual intrinsic value trades purely on perceived value gained through simple market force whims. At some stage, irrelevant to its current price, these shares will one day be worthless. Predicting that date is impossible but somebody trading in such shares must lose. Secret is making sure that is next owner and not you. To my mind trading in such is immoral. Its only an imagined price and never value. There is a big difference.
It should be outlawed. In effect you are selling something that does not exist.

Very difficult to define 'zero real usefulness'. Brand name? Copyright? (that will certainly have zero value at one date, but the date is predictable)

 

[Woosh]

Any commodity (and I use the term loosely) with zero real usefulness, no actual intrinsic value trades purely on perceived value gained through simple market force whims. At some stage, irrelevant to its current price, these shares will one day be worthless. Predicting that date is impossible but somebody trading in such shares must lose. Secret is making sure that is next owner and not you. To my mind trading in such is immoral. Its only an imagined price and never value. There is a big difference.
It should be outlawed. In effect you are selling something that does not exist.

you could say the same about bitcoins and similar digital currencies that are not backed by a state.
I wouldn't want to go as far as to outlaw them though.
There are a lot of IPs without real usefulness to consider.

 

[Zlatan]

Very difficult to define 'zero real usefulness'. Brand name? Copyright? (that will certainly have zero value at one date, but the date is predictable)

Just ask yourself would you buy whatever the shares are representing?
You could argue (falsely) that gold is such a "zero usefulness" at its price but in reality it isn't. It has intrinsic value. Shares representing firms, finances, bricks and mortar, real commodities(sugar etc) and even currency... But the ones in question don't actually exist.. You are buying confidence, it's actually a confidence trick.. Tantamount to pyramid sales. Yes, it's not new but however you approach it there is no real end gain. No houses, no real profit, no dividend, nothing produced, nothing covered (insurance)... Nothing. Just confidence that they will go up in value. It's wrong. It's trading for trading sake.
Even if I thought I could double my money overnight I, d avoid them... Because no matter how much I make some later "shareholder" will lose...
Its actually against basic capitalist rules. Capitalism works by concentrating capital where it can be utilised, to build houses, to pay wages, to cover losses, to move things... to do something. Cash in these does nothing... Zilch.. Except make money for one.... And lose for somebody else.. with nobody else gaining at all. It's wrong on so many levels.
Agree, re bitcoin to a degree, but thats a genuine currency now... So different...

 

[oyster]

Interesting developments:

Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI

The EU has temporarily overridden a section of the Northern Ireland Brexit deal as part of its export controls on coronavirus vaccines.
The EU is introducing export controls on vaccines made in the bloc, amid a row about delivery shortfalls.
Under the Brexit deal all products should be exported from the EU to NI without checks or controls.
But the EU believed this could be used to circumvent export controls, with NI becoming a backdoor to the wider UK.
It has therefore invoked Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which allows parts of the deal to be unilaterally overridden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442

 

[Zlatan]

Interesting developments:

Brexit: EU introduces controls on vaccines to NI

The EU has temporarily overridden a section of the Northern Ireland Brexit deal as part of its export controls on coronavirus vaccines.
The EU is introducing export controls on vaccines made in the bloc, amid a row about delivery shortfalls.
Under the Brexit deal all products should be exported from the EU to NI without checks or controls.
But the EU believed this could be used to circumvent export controls, with NI becoming a backdoor to the wider UK.
It has therefore invoked Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol which allows parts of the deal to be unilaterally overridden.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-55864442

Mmm, so who is first to go against the deal??? Not a great start by EU...
They order vaccines 3 months after UK but then expect those 3 months are ignored.. I really think this has shone a light on how EU operates. (well actually doesnt) It's another example of a complete level of governance proving itself unnecessary.
In real terms what has EU actually achieved around vaccines that individual countries couldn't have done and far quicker into bargain. Its proven itself slow to react, late to decide and then searches for scapegoats. Blame culture on a whole new level.
Why didn't EU order AZ vaccines when we did? Why has it taken so long to pass regulation, makes a joke of it when they do... As though taking time on a decision makes it any more correct. Of course it doesn't. Analysis takes finite time. If Mhra could certify it 6 weeks ago why couldn't EU body???

 

[oldgroaner]

Any commodity (and I use the term loosely) with zero real usefulness, no actual intrinsic value trades purely on perceived value gained through simple market force whims. At some stage, irrelevant to its current price, these shares will one day be worthless. Predicting that date is impossible but somebody trading in such shares must lose. Secret is making sure that is next owner and not you. To my mind trading in such is immoral. Its only an imagined price and never value. There is a big difference.
It should be outlawed. In effect you are selling something that does not exist.

That last sentence is the best description I have seen so far of a Party Manifesto

 

[oldgroaner]

Mmm, so who is first to go against the deal??? Not a great start by EU...
They order vaccines 3 months after UK but then expect those 3 months are ignored.. I really think this has shone a light on how EU operates. (well actually doesnt) It's another example of a complete level of governance proving itself unnecessary.
In real terms what has EU actually achieved around vaccines that individual countries couldn't have done and far quicker into bargain. Its proven itself slow to react, late to decide and then searches for scapegoats. Blame culture on a whole new level.

Hence the need for central authority, as it is it is just a club

 

[Zlatan]

Hence the need for central authority, as it is it is just a club

A central authority that has over the vaccines proven itself incompetent at side of our govt , which really by your standard must take some doing..
EU are setting up to steel our vaccines we invested in manufacture of last February,ordered from in May and passed regulation 6 weeks ago.
EU have passed it today for everybody over 18,Germany has insisted not eligible for over 65s...How does that work?
Does Germany follow its authorisation or the EUs. Yet again proving EU is redundant. Every EU state could pass different certification. Its ridiculous.

 

[Nev]

The daily infection rates shown on the Governments dash board seem to be showing a steep decline in the number of people catching the virus, and yet the weekly survey carried out by the ONS, show that infection rates have stopped falling and are just holding steady.

The numbers for the last two weeks for the ONS survey have hardly changed at all, which if correct means lockdown is just holding things steady but is not really reducing rates of infection. The vaccine and warmer weather will help a lot but does this mean lockdown is going to go on for quite a while.

The Welsh Government is hoping to open primary schools straight after half term if possible, I assume they will have seen the latest ONS survey, should they not be worried?

Covid rate in UK has levelled off but remains high, ONS data shows | World news | The Guardian

 

[Nev]

EU have passed it today for everybody over 18,Germany has insisted not eligible for over 65s...How does that work?

Germany is in a fairly strong position compared to many of the other EU countries. The Pfizer vaccine was invented there, by a German company. I think I am right in saying they have the manufacturing capacity to make the Pfizer vaccine there in large quantities. They have ordered 90 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine, this will be more than enough for their over 65s.

They have not said the AZ vaccine is no use for over 65s what they have said is that there is insufficient trial data concerning over 65s. There is sufficient data for the older age group for the Pfizer vaccine, so that is why they have made that decision.

The EU have approved the AZ vaccine, it is up to member states how they wish to use it, my guess would be some, perhaps most member states will allow the AZ to by used on over 65s.

 

[sjpt]

Covid: EU approves AstraZeneca vaccine amid supply row

The EU approves AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine, but accuses the firm of breaking supply commitments.

www.bbc.co.uk

EU drugs regulator approves AstraZeneca vaccine

 

[Zlatan]

Covid: EU approves AstraZeneca vaccine amid supply row

The EU approves AstraZeneca's Covid vaccine, but accuses the firm of breaking supply commitments.

www.bbc.co.uk

EU drugs regulator approves AstraZeneca vaccine

They, ll be bombing us for it soon.
Why has it taken this long.?

 

[Jesus H Christ]

It certainly is, £4106 for every man woman and child in the UK.

Or put another way, £11,061 for every full time worker.

Ouch !
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.... and it will be the full time workers trapped in the middle on PAYE picking up the tab. The poor can’t pay, the wealthy won’t pay.