Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Thank goodness Corbyn was defeated at the last election. With all of their corruption, incompetence and contempt for the public, I’d still vote Tory a 1000 times over to keep the hard left out of office.
Labour doesn't need to be in office now the Tories are following all their policies.

Nationalising more rail, investing billions in the economy and the health service, policies favouring the North. Doesn't leave anything for Labour to do, now you've got their hard left policies anyway.
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Barry Shittpeas

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Labour doesn't need to be in office now the Tories are following all their policies.

Nationalising more rail, investing billions in the economy and the health service, policies favouring the North. Doesn't leave anything for Labour to do, now you've got their hard left policies anyway.
.
That’s great, everyone is happy and no need for complaints about the Conservative party.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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That’s great, everyone is happy and no need for complaints about the Conservative party.
In the matters I quoted I agree.

I'm not so happy with those parts of the party who put the economy before solving the Covid crisis, making it worse in the process, since it's not one thing or the other.

I say either get Covid over with quickly by taking the hit full on without wrecking the economy and education (which I favour), or go wholeheartedly the other way in the hope of limiting the duration of the Covid problem. What is happening at the moment isn't solving anything.
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Barry Shittpeas

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I wonder why the commission didn't uncover any evidence of racial prejudice against any other race or ethnic group in the Labour ranks?
Surely with what is it 600,000 members there must be others?
The commission was asked by Labour to look at whether there was / is an anti-semitism problem within The Labour Party. They were not asked, by Labour, to look for other forms of racial prejudice, so that would remain outside of the scope of the enquiry. They were not asked to report on the extent of anti-semitism either, just whether there was / is a problem.

The commission found that there was / is an anti-semitism problem in the Labour Party and they have produced evidence to support their findings. Corbyn, is trying to defend himself by blaming the media and his political opponents. That’s not what this report is about, the EHRC has found a problem, Starmer is trying to fix it, the hard left want none of it. Starmer, quite rightly is getting rid of those opposing the report’s findings, starting with the Clown in Chief. May more follow.

You can’t fix something until you recognise that it’s broken. That’s Corbyn’s problem and that’s why he’s had the boot up his arse. Abbot and Long-Bailey next please.
 
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Danidl

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I thought this article from the Irish Times of today might refocus minds on the function of this thread..It certainly contained history I was not familiar with....
fisheries dispute
Stephen Collins
It is hard to believe that a dispute over fishing rights could stand in the way of a trade deal between the EU and the UK, given the miniscule contribution the industry makes to the economy of both sides. Yet as one Brussels wag put it: “Never underestimate the impact of gross emotional product on international relations.”
Of course the whole Brexit project is an emotional rather than a rational exercise, and fishing rights have been central to it from the start. The notion that British fishermen have seen their stocks plundered by foreigners since they joined the EU has become an article of faith for Brexiteers. French president Emmanuel Macron has recently joined the emotional battle by threatening to upend any free trade agreement unless French fishermen continue to enjoy the right to fish British waters.
The fact is that trawlers from other European countries have been fishing the waters around Britain and Ireland for hundreds of years and were doing so when both countries joined the then EEC (European Economic Community) in 1973. Just how far back into the mists of time disputes over fishing rights go is illustrated by an Act passed by the Irish parliament nearly 500 years ago. During the reign of Henry VIII, a long session of the parliament began in Dublin in May 1536 and then continued in Kilkenny, Cashel and Limerick, before concluding in Dublin in December 1537.
The main business of the parliament was to endorse Henry’s strategy of cutting his ties with Rome, as well as cutting off the head of Anne Boleyn. The main thrust of a Bill containing “certayne articles for the King’s advauntage, the common wele of the land and reformacon” was to establish him as head of the church in Ireland. However, the first article in the legislation did not deal with the great political question of the day, or the fate of his queen, but the activities of foreign fishing vessels in Irish waters.
Salmonds
“Furste where the Fysshyng of Ireland is a great Commiditie and proffyt as taking great habundaunce of Salmonds lynges hake heryngs and other Fysshes Which strangers and alyents [aliens] haunte and carry away with theme into aliene Regians as to Espayne Bryttayne Normandy Scotland and other places . . . And that noo ship balyngar or pyccard presume to Fysshe unto suche tyme as First the Maister and merchauntes enter their ship in the Kings Custume [custom] bokes and before theire departying make true entre of all theire loading And pay the kings Custume for the same.”
The Act confirms that fishing fleets from Spain and France were active in the waters around these islands in the time of Henry VIII and probably for long before that. Spanish records fom the 16th century show they landed their catch at harbours in west Cork and Kerry, where the fish were cured before being transported home. Fishermen from Spain and France have continued to fish in the Celtic Sea and the waters off the west coast of Ireland.
Until the 1960s there was only a three-mile limit to protect inshore fishing. It was introduced
in 1702 as the estimated range of a cannon ball and remained the international standard until the late 1950s when Iceland introduced a 12-mile limit to protect its stocks from the British fishing fleet. That started the so called “cod wars” which went on for nearly two decades. Iceland pushed the limit up to 200 miles in 1976 and the British fishing industry was devastated. In response, the UK declared a 200-mile limit, and Ireland followed suit.
By the time this happened both countries were in the EEC and subject to the common fisheries policy so the fishermen from the other member states were entitled to operate inside the UK 200-mile limit. This allowed Spanish and French vessels to operate in British and Irish waters and UK fishermen to fish Danish and Dutch waters.
The problem facing all the EU countries was the dramatic decline in stocks due to overfishing. Adoption of the common fisheries policy with quotas and strict seasons for fishing certain species was not popular in any EU country but it was necessary to prevent the destruction of fish stocks in European waters. The UK fishing industry, which had already been in serious decline after the closure of the Icelandic fishery, blamed EU policies and enthusiastically supported the Brexit campaign.
If fishing symbolises the emotional appeal of Brexit, it also exposes the contradictions at the heart of it. The Brexiteers want to ban EU vessels from fishing in their waters but about 70 per cent of the UK catch is exported to the EU. The future of the UK fishing industry is dependent on a deal even if that reality is taking time to sink in.
Common sense dictates that an agreement to allow EU fishermen access to British waters with mutually agreed quotas will ultimately emerge. It is certainly in Ireland’s interest that the row over fishing does not scupper a wider free-trade deal.
 

Barry Shittpeas

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 1, 2020
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In the matters I quoted I agree.

I'm not so happy with those parts of the party who put the economy before solving the Covid crisis, making it worse in the process, since it's not one thing or the other.

I say either get Covid over with quickly by taking the hit full on without wrecking the economy and education (which I favour), or go wholeheartedly the other way in the hope of limiting the duration of the Covid problem. What is happening at the moment isn't solving anything.
.
Looking at the scenes in Nottingham on the news gives me mixed feelings. You have the 18 - 30 year old idiots partying in the streets last night, and on the other hand, you have the man in his 60s confined to a high rise flat looking after his terminally ill wife.

It’s a real shame this virus doesn’t kill young people. If it did, I don’t think the problems would be so bad.

This Tier system isn’t working. Those people who were rolling around drunk in Nottingham city Center streets last night will be in Derby City centre tonight and tomorrow. They’ll just go to Derby because the pubs are still open there, Tier 2.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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That’s great, everyone is happy and no need for complaints about the Conservative party.
That, I think, is the motive for all this puritanical outrage. In other news, the second wave is propelled by a new strain of the virus that started in spain. What that means for immunity, vaccine isnt clear yet. 20a.eu1 is not d614g that made it less lethal before
 
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vfr400

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I wonder what vfr makes of it when Trump is n longer president.
Like with Brexit, nothing will change for the likes of you and me. As I've said many times, I'm not invested in this event. I'm merely an observer watching the story play out.
 

jonathan.agnew

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 27, 2018
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Is that Latin for Crocked ?
I think so. Go to the black market in Rome, get knockoff Levi's, knockoff diesel t shirt, knockoff Rolex, knockoff doc Martin's, next thing youre strutting. Forgot the knockoff raybans. It is in fact great fun.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,216
30,617
I thought this article from the Irish Times of today might refocus minds on the function of this thread..It certainly contained history I was not familiar with....
fisheries dispute
Stephen Collins
It is hard to believe that a dispute over fishing rights could stand in the way of a trade deal between the EU and the UK, given the miniscule contribution the industry makes to the economy of both sides. Yet as one Brussels wag put it: “Never underestimate the impact of gross emotional product on international relations.”
Of course the whole Brexit project is an emotional rather than a rational exercise, and fishing rights have been central to it from the start. The notion that British fishermen have seen their stocks plundered by foreigners since they joined the EU has become an article of faith for Brexiteers. French president Emmanuel Macron has recently joined the emotional battle by threatening to upend any free trade agreement unless French fishermen continue to enjoy the right to fish British waters.
The fact is that trawlers from other European countries have been fishing the waters around Britain and Ireland for hundreds of years and were doing so when both countries joined the then EEC (European Economic Community) in 1973. Just how far back into the mists of time disputes over fishing rights go is illustrated by an Act passed by the Irish parliament nearly 500 years ago. During the reign of Henry VIII, a long session of the parliament began in Dublin in May 1536 and then continued in Kilkenny, Cashel and Limerick, before concluding in Dublin in December 1537.
The main business of the parliament was to endorse Henry’s strategy of cutting his ties with Rome, as well as cutting off the head of Anne Boleyn. The main thrust of a Bill containing “certayne articles for the King’s advauntage, the common wele of the land and reformacon” was to establish him as head of the church in Ireland. However, the first article in the legislation did not deal with the great political question of the day, or the fate of his queen, but the activities of foreign fishing vessels in Irish waters.
Salmonds
“Furste where the Fysshyng of Ireland is a great Commiditie and proffyt as taking great habundaunce of Salmonds lynges hake heryngs and other Fysshes Which strangers and alyents [aliens] haunte and carry away with theme into aliene Regians as to Espayne Bryttayne Normandy Scotland and other places . . . And that noo ship balyngar or pyccard presume to Fysshe unto suche tyme as First the Maister and merchauntes enter their ship in the Kings Custume [custom] bokes and before theire departying make true entre of all theire loading And pay the kings Custume for the same.”
The Act confirms that fishing fleets from Spain and France were active in the waters around these islands in the time of Henry VIII and probably for long before that. Spanish records fom the 16th century show they landed their catch at harbours in west Cork and Kerry, where the fish were cured before being transported home. Fishermen from Spain and France have continued to fish in the Celtic Sea and the waters off the west coast of Ireland.
Until the 1960s there was only a three-mile limit to protect inshore fishing. It was introduced
in 1702 as the estimated range of a cannon ball and remained the international standard until the late 1950s when Iceland introduced a 12-mile limit to protect its stocks from the British fishing fleet. That started the so called “cod wars” which went on for nearly two decades. Iceland pushed the limit up to 200 miles in 1976 and the British fishing industry was devastated. In response, the UK declared a 200-mile limit, and Ireland followed suit.
By the time this happened both countries were in the EEC and subject to the common fisheries policy so the fishermen from the other member states were entitled to operate inside the UK 200-mile limit. This allowed Spanish and French vessels to operate in British and Irish waters and UK fishermen to fish Danish and Dutch waters.
The problem facing all the EU countries was the dramatic decline in stocks due to overfishing. Adoption of the common fisheries policy with quotas and strict seasons for fishing certain species was not popular in any EU country but it was necessary to prevent the destruction of fish stocks in European waters. The UK fishing industry, which had already been in serious decline after the closure of the Icelandic fishery, blamed EU policies and enthusiastically supported the Brexit campaign.
If fishing symbolises the emotional appeal of Brexit, it also exposes the contradictions at the heart of it. The Brexiteers want to ban EU vessels from fishing in their waters but about 70 per cent of the UK catch is exported to the EU. The future of the UK fishing industry is dependent on a deal even if that reality is taking time to sink in.
Common sense dictates that an agreement to allow EU fishermen access to British waters with mutually agreed quotas will ultimately emerge. It is certainly in Ireland’s interest that the row over fishing does not scupper a wider free-trade deal.
Excellent post Danidl, as you posted, British fishing is an export industry. The British don't want to eat most of what is fished in our waters, the Continentals do, so the attitude of Brexiters is simply a "dog in the manger" one. To threaten the chance of a trade deal for something worth less than 2% of all the other trade is sheer madness.
.
 

vfr400

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Meanwhile... The dog ate my kompromat


Poor F*cker Tarlson,

Had all the Hunter Biden documents sent to him and it's all been stolen!!! *poof*...they just disappeared. Too funny!

After his pathetic and weak attempt explaining where those documents are that haven't had the impact they had hoped it would generate...this is what he has come up with. LOLOL

The comments are hilarious.

Good news. UPS have now found the flash drive and delivered it. A lot of people are looking a bit silly now.
 
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RossG

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Feb 12, 2019
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I think so. Go to the black market in Rome, get knockoff Levi's, knockoff diesel t shirt, knockoff Rolex, knockoff doc Martin's, next thing youre strutting. Forgot the knockoff raybans. It is in fact great fun.
Know ye of such a market Aggers ?
 

RossG

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2019
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Good news. UPS have now found the flash drive and delivered it. A lot of people are looking a bit silly now.
This is all Fox News tripe though naturally biased as it would be, take a look at CNN and see the other side.
Did you know that on a recent flight Trump was found slumped in his seat (Trump never ever sleeps on air flights, never) I wonder if Fox went into that ? You have to see both sides then decide who's wrong and who's right, America will get what it deserves.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Dec 27, 2018
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Looking at the scenes in Nottingham on the news gives me mixed feelings. You have the 18 - 30 year old idiots partying in the streets last night, and on the other hand, you have the man in his 60s confined to a high rise flat looking after his terminally ill wife.

It’s a real shame this virus doesn’t kill young people. If it did, I don’t think the problems would be so bad.

This Tier system isn’t working. Those people who were rolling around drunk in Nottingham city Center streets last night will be in Derby City centre tonight and tomorrow. They’ll just go to Derby because the pubs are still open there, Tier 2.
I agree the tier system was never going to work. as boris/cummings/hancock well knew before implementing it. much as they knew what they were doing when they delayed lockdown in march. It has never been about avoiding excess deaths. Its beyond cynical. The only thing that works internationally is full lockdown. To be fair to the young, how responsible would we be if it didn't affect us?
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,216
30,617
This Tier system isn’t working.
Exactly as I forecast and demonstrated the other day with its total failure here in London from day one of its introduction. It can't be made to work because it cannot be policed without completely paralysing the country and finally destroying the economy. Freedom of movement of people and goods is the very foundation of our whole economy.

The fact is that none of the defensive measures against the virus are working anywhere in the world, and we are no exception in having the huge current increases in infection.

The defensive measures don't work because they cannot work as I've repeatedly been posting. My first mention of that right at the start of the measures in spring was how supermarket basket handles were virtually never being disinfected, passing from hand to stack and back to hand without any attention. Since about a third of that shopping is done using a basket by the near third of all households that are single person, that system is a failure.

Nor is such disinfecting a success on trolleys, since after an initial burst of a fair degree of compliance many locations are only doing it in cavalier token fashion. At the huge superstore I use almost every trolley goes from hand to hand without any disinfecting, not because of negligence but due to it's structural circumstances. They do some disinfection, but the disinfected trolleys are not the ones that get used.

There are parallels with those failures for every defensive measure tried, from disinfections and social distancing through to the current attempts at tiers.

The only thing that works, but only to a very limited degree, is total lockdown, but the country cannot live with that indefinitely since we cannot live without a fully operational economy.

We might as well take the hit because we all will in the end anyway.
.
 
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vfr400

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This is all Fox News tripe though naturally biased as it would be, take a look at CNN and see the other side.
Did you know that on a recent flight Trump was found slumped in his seat (Trump never ever sleeps on air flights, never) I wonder if Fox went into that ? You have to see both sides then decide who's wrong and who's right, America will get what it deserves.
Who reports the information isn't important. what matters is whether they're telling the truth. Documents, emails, SMS messages, photos and videos are compelling evidence, especially when neither Hunter nor Joe Biden have denied that the laptop and what's on it isn't genuine. Also, what makes me believe that it's all genuine is the way the MSM refused to go and look at it and the way social media tried to supress and invalidate the story. Even they have now admitted that there was nothing to indicate that it was fake at the recent senate hearing, and they've now released the restriction.

The important story is the cover-up, not the story itself. Why did CNN not want to go and see what was on the laptop when they were invited? Wouldn't you be interested if you were a news reporter and somebody said that they had conclusive documentary evidence that crooked things were going on in government?
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Exactly as I forecast and demonstrated the other day with its total failure here in London from day one of its introduction. It can't be made to work because it cannot be policed without completely paralysing the country and finally destroying the economy. Freedom of movement of people and goods is the very foundation of our whole economy.

The fact is that none of the defensive measures against the virus are working anywhere in the world, and we are no exception in having the huge current increases in infection.

The defensive measures don't work because they cannot work as I've repeatedly been posting. My first mention of that right at the start of the measures in spring was how supermarket basket handles were virtually never being disinfected, passing from hand to stack and back to hand without any attention. Since about a third of that shopping is done using a basket by the near third of all households that are single person, that system is a failure.

Nor is such disinfecting a success on trolleys, since after an initial burst of a fair degree of compliance many locations are only doing it in cavalier token fashion. At the huge superstore I use almost every trolley goes from hand to hand without any disinfecting, not because of negligence but due to it's structural circumstances. They do some disinfection, but the disinfected trolleys are not the ones that get used.

There are parallels with those failures for every defensive measure tried, from disinfections and social distancing through to the current attempts at tiers.

The only thing that works, but only to a very limited degree, is total lockdown, but the country cannot live with that indefinitely since we cannot live without a fully operational economy.

We might as well take the hit becaus we all will in the end anyway.
.
Defensive measures worked and work - in New Zealand, china, Sydney etc. It hasn't worked here because it wasn't meant to. It was contrived, like brexit, around corruption (test and trace, much like fake ferries a small part of it) and transferring responsibility for an avoidable fiasco (like brexit) onto the public.
 
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