Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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Don't give them your name Pike!
Seems like good advice without rather better safeguards
It does. :)

The facial recognition aspect has been pushed out as an update for convenience. After all, lots of people choose facial recognition to unock their phones (not me!).

But it is quite clear that if any form of immunity passport system is implemented, facial recognition would be a cornerstone. How else would you be able to associate an individual with an electronic certificate? (Same issue would apply to a paper-based system, of course.)

I can see how you could go into the app and see that you have a current, active immunity certificate. Not at all clear how anyone else would check your certificate? Surely you cannot be expected to hand your phone over? Especially as it would have to be unlocked in order for anyone to check. Maybe it will display some sort of code (number, barcode, QR-code?) and the other person can enter that into a checking system which will display yes or no - but without ALSO displaying your photo would anyone be happy to accept that?
 

oyster

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Sorry if it’s been mentioned before, but Baroness Dildo, the person appointed by the government to lead T&T and look after our personal data, presided over the loss of 17 million Talk Talk customers personal and financial details to computer hackers when she was CEO there.
There's a bit of a coincidence there - from TT to TT...

At the time of TalkTalk's worst nightmare time, I was dealing with several people who had misguidedly installed TT for broadband. Every single one had issues which did not get resolved for at least weeks. It was appalling.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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There's a bit of a coincidence there - from TT to TT...

At the time of TalkTalk's worst nightmare time, I was dealing with several people who had misguidedly installed TT for broadband. Every single one had issues which did not get resolved for at least weeks. It was appalling.
My parents had Talk Talk broadband, it was abysmal.

Still, it’s not all bad news, Baroness Dildo is the wife of the Tory MP for Weston-super-Mare, so that’s a nice little earner for them. Plus Hubby got ten big ones last month, along with all the other MPs, so Coronavirus life is good.

I’m fed up with people whinging about Coronavirus and all the negative stuff, like “oooo my husband died alone in hospital and I never saw him again after he was carted off in an ambulance.” Shut up, there are good news stories out there like Baroness Dildo and he husband’s or Dominic Cummings being able to go for family walks in his parents privately owned area of woodlands. How great is that, really lucky to have that facility available, let’s be happy about it. It’s now time to move on from Dildo’s appalling history of mismanagement and failure and concentrate on all the good stuff.
 

Barry Shittpeas

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This morning the Tory press have decided not to bother any more and forget that Cummings has been a naughty boy. it's all let's move on etc.,etc
Roll the next crisis
I wonder if the is why Track and Trace has been brought forwards by 4 days? It was supposed to start on Monday 1st, which has a certain timing logic to it. Thursday 28th seems a bit odd, almost like it’s being used to displace another story out of the news.
 
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Nev

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Wicky

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This is a really good piece from the Guardian on R values and the possibility of a second wave later on in the year.
“A fire burns fast at first but the embers take a long time to die down.”


Worth repeating again lessons from Spanish Flu epidemic - that it can flare up again when restrictions are eased

 
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flecc

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Londoners have made a brilliant effort in adhering to lock-down advice, and bringing the infection under control.
A good post Danidl and agree with virtually all of it, but the above statement is totally untrue. It's academics once again clinging onto their blind, blinkered belief that only lockdown could account for the admitted up to 0.3 lower "r" in London and fantasising to suit, a false belief that you and Woosh appear to share.

It doesn't and hasn't, London's circumstances make it impossible for the "r" to be better than elsewhere in the more spaced out country on lockdown grounds, especially on that scale. And the evidence we've all seen supports what I'm saying, overcrowded tube trains, parks packed with people rebelliously ignoring the police requests, people close together on commuting pavements near stations etc during lockdown due to the high concentrations of essential workers we have , grossly overcrowded high density living circumstances, the extremely high BAME population etc, etc. There's also my postings about the actual situation on the ground here in London.

THE REASON FOR THE LOWER "r" IN LONDON NOW IS SIMPLY THAT WE TOOK A FAR HIGHER HIT IN THE FIRST PLACE DUE TO OUR LOCKDOWN INADEQUACIES.

That resulted in up to double the infection and death rates of the rest of the country and a far higher "r" than elsewhere, all proven and recorded by the ONS.

THE INEVITABLE OUTCOME IN CONSEQUENCE IS THE MUCH LOWER "r" NOW, FOR THE TIME BEING.

And the lockdown policy to spread the infection over time rate supports me in that contention, we've just failed to do that to anything like the same degree as all the evidence shows.
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flecc

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No. That's not true.

I went looking for the said study and could not find any.
I never said that London has lower infection rate. I don't know and I suspect not. I think the probable Re number for large towns and cities is 0.9, much higher than the UK government claims.

I usually substantiate how I come to those numbers, including widely accepted formulas - you can wiki them up, but do realise that formulas and calculations are boring.
The suggestion of the original article in the DT was fake news is due to the lack of any searchable study claiming such a low number (24 a day) of new confirmed cases. I don't believe it's true.
today's official figures are:
2,013 new cases and 412 new deaths
so only 24 cases in London is laughable.
You can take a low Re, extend the time, you can wipe out any infectious disease.
Let's wait until November and continue this discussion then.
Defend Cummings if you must, I think he is a dangerous nutter who used his kid to defend his career. He should have been sacked.
I'm not even going to answer the obvious errors in your response. Instead I'll content myself with an extract from Danidl's response, a quote from Professor Matt Keeling, Professor of Populations and Disease, University of Warwick and my response to what he said:

“What this study highlights is that London is experiencing a subtly different epidemic to other regions of the country, with a more rapid decline and different relationships between ICU occupancy, hospital occupancy and deaths. This is clearly something that needs to be understood in more detail, as it may be important for how different areas of the country exit from lock-down."

I do understand it and cannot understand why academics can't drop their preconceptions about lockdown and can't see the blindingly obvious:

THE REASON FOR THE LOWER "r" IN LONDON NOW IS SIMPLY THAT WE TOOK A FAR HIGHER HIT IN THE FIRST PLACE DUE TO OUR LOCKDOWN INADEQUACIES.

That resulted in up to double the infection and death rates of the rest of the country and a far higher "r" than elsewhere, all proven and recorded by the ONS.

THE INEVITABLE OUTCOME IN CONSEQUENCE IS THE MUCH LOWER "r" NOW, FOR THE TIME BEING.
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RossG

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The one thing I believe most will agree with is the next time we have a Pandemic, and make no mistake there will be, a lockdown be it right or wrong will be introduced and it will be sooner rather than later and probably tougher. Not everybody agrees it's the right approach but nevertheless the majority do and that alone would swing it. In the event of another lockdown whenever that might occur many people will still ignore it as the do now and argue it's not the right way to go.

There is something I have found interesting as I now start to venturing out and getting close to people again.
Recently I went for a short walk to a local nature spot right next to where I live, I had a mask in my pocket but didn't put it on because the route I took is really short and I didn't expect to bump into anyone on the way.
Typical of my luck I did see someone walking down a short path, a woman seeing me coming took a wide swerve as did I to be courteous and it felt really odd. On the way back a man walking behind me and slowly catching up crossed the road to avoid, and another chap lurking on a street corner suddenly saw me approaching and quickly took a mask from his pocket and stuck it on.
I don't know how others feel when they go out but I felt like a Leper, not nice...uncomfortable is the word I'd use, it's just not me. :confused:
 

oyster

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They are really getting themselves into a war of words with themselves! No it is not mandatory but you must or we will make it mandatory... And while what Cummings did was fine it isn't fine if you are told you must isolate and no you can't because it wouldn't be reasonable unless it is.

Matt Hancock has warned people could be forced to self-isolate under the new coronavirus test and trace system if they do not follow the rules voluntarily.

The health secretary predicted the "vast majority" will comply with the new strategy to loosen lockdown in England as he laughed off suggestions it was rushed forward to distract from the row over Downing Street aide Dominic Cummings.

He told Sky News' Kay Burley@Breakfast the suggestion was "priceless".

Speaking on the day of the launch of the contact tracing drive, he said: "We have considered making this mandatory and there are some other countries in which it's mandatory.

"But in the first instance we have great faith the public will follow the instructions from the NHS...

"It's an instruction from the NHS and it's very important that you do it, but it's legally not mandated at this stage because we think it's far, far better if as a country we pull together and do this and everybody follows the instructions."

Mr Hancock dismissed calls from a growing number of Tory MPs - which now include a senior minister - to sack Boris Johnson's top adviser for making three trips during lockdown which "undermined key public health messages".

Asked what people should do if they have childcare issues but are told to self-isolate, Mr Hancock told Sky News: "Well, of course, it is very important that childcare is taken into account.

"I understand that as well as anybody, so yes it is very important that people deal with childcare and do that in a reasonable way."

Pushed on if they would need to stay at home, he added: "That is what you will be instructed to do, yes, and you should follow those instructions because that is in the best interest of everybody."

Mr Cummings said earlier this week he had "exceptional circumstances" to move from London to his parents' farm in Durham to seek childcare help, and claimed he drove 30 minutes to the town of Barnard Castle to test his eyesight.


https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-matt-hancock-warns-self-isolating-could-be-mandatory-as-he-laughs-off-dominic-cummings-row-11996005
 

oyster

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UK coronavirus live: Durham police find Dominic Cummings did breach lockdown rules, report says

Fines came a week after Dominic Cummings made similar journey, police reveal, as statement on adviser’s trip expected
Dominic Cummings did breach lockdown rules, Durham police say

The prime minister’s most senior adviser did breach lockdown rules when he made the 50-mile trip to Barnard Castle, an investigation by Durham police has found.

Dominic Cummings claimed he made the journey on 12 April – Easter Sunday and his wife’s birthday – with his wife and four-year-old son to check his eyesight was sound before travelling back to London.

He has maintained that he acted “lawfully and reasonably” when he journeyed 264 miles north to self-isolate on his parent’s farm in County Durham at the end of March, at the height of the pandemic.

The Telegraph (paywall) reports that the Durham Police investigation has concluded that this was a minor breach of the guidelines that did not warrant any further action.

More on this story to follow.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2020/may/28/uk-coronavirus-live-test-and-trace-gets-under-way-in-england-and-scotland
 
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flecc

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I don't know how others feel when they go out but I felt like a Leper, not nice...uncomfortable is the word I'd use, it's just not me. :confused:
Around here it would be just you. The reason you feel that way is because you've been secluding yourself.

I don't because I've been going out all the time and as often as I like, as has almost everyone else around here. Only a tiny minority use a mask and they are clearly the few who do show any embarrassment by their behaviour.
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Danidl

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Around here it would be just you. The reason you feel that way is because you've been secluding yourself.

I don't because I've been going out all the time and as often as I like, as has almost everyone else around here. Only a tiny minority use a mask and they are clearly the few who do show any embarrassment by their behaviour.
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Perhaps they should
 

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oyster

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Kier Starmer has spoken:

Labour leader Keir Starmer has said that Boris Johnson has “shown himself to be weak” in dealing with the Dominic Cummings situation.

In a clip on BBC Radio 4’s the World At One programme, Sir Keir said: “The most important thing here is not, you know, these technical issues, but the problem is by not dealing with Cummings in a strong way, the Prime Minister has not only shown himself to be weak, and he has shown himself to be weak - I mean he’s so desperate for this adviser he’ll cling on to him through thick and thin.”

“More importantly, what I’m worried about is that people might think ‘well,’ if Cummings doesn’t have to apply by the rules, why do I have to? Then you’re on a slippery slope.”

Starmer was also asked whether Cummings should go during a virtual Call Keir event in Doncaster, and said: “I would’ve sacked him from the outset if I’d been Prime Minister.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Perhaps they should
No point now the horse has bolted and our "r" is is so low at an accepted "6" and still reducing. And with Londoners behaviours I can't see any increase in mask use, as this account shows:

A Day in London Lives

I've had to put up with many silly things said about London from people living far away who know nothing about it, and this was capped by a Professor in WarwickUniversity making this nonsensical claim, "Londoners have made a brilliant effort in adhering to lock-down advice, and bringing the infection under control." which is the reverse of the truth on both aspects.

So I thought I'd place on record just one day in my outside home life and those I interacted with, on Wednesday 27th May to give an idea of the reality.

It started with my leaving home to get my cars tyres rotated, a simple front and rear swap each side. Walking up to my garage, M------, a neighbour and friend called out to me from his driving seat, n/s door open and his girlfriend who I know standing by it (At this stage it's best that I explain that I long ago gave up on strictest distancing since so many don't, only now doing it when others show the same intention). They don't, M------ and I laughingly agreed some while ago that we weren't going to get the virus, so I joined his girlfriend side by side, greeting each other, and close to the cab and M------ so I could hear him over his diesel ticking over. He wanted some details of a service I used so I promised to pop them into his home later.

M------ incidentally runs a painting and decorating business and has never shut down, he and his two staff with three vehicles continuing to work in the homes and businesses of others throughout the lockdown, clearly not practising separation.

Then it was car out and drive to a local tyre service. This isn't one of the big boys, it's a cash only, no cards cheap business selling part used tyres as well as new at very low prices, giving a valuable service on a large council estate where there's many poor people. The guy who runs it employs a few from the estate on a random friendly basis, and when I got there he was out on a job and there was someone I hadn't seen before holding the fort.

An obvious ex con, he seemed to have no concept of social distancing, so I worked with him on the jacking and wheel changes, swapping the jacks, wheels and brace and wheel nut key between us, no sterilisation of these before handling of course. During that a couple of young men who knew the business joined us, hanging around. Then another customer turned up with a punctured spare so one of the young men did that repair, five of us milling around in limited space with no regard to distancing from anyone.

My job done I asked how much, to which he said "How much would he normally charge?" That's the sort of business it is, prices mutually agreed, so I said "A tenner" but gave him a twenty saying, "that will cover you ok" which earned a smile.

Back home I wrote out the details M------ wanted, went out for the second time and popped them though his letter box, another transmission path.

After lunch I went out the third time for a walk in the local reserve, meeting my upstairs neighbour S---- outside as he got back from work. He's a postal worker so finishes by the start of the afternoon and he told me how fed up he'd got with the indoor work he'd volunteered for, wishing he'd stayed out on the road. He added something I'd heard many times here, that he thought the whole corona issue had been greatly exaggerated. Needless to say he wasn't separating by two metres.

Then it was the walk up the long narrow fenced path to the reserve, meeting two families forced to pass very close. The woodlands weren't very crowded, some walkers separating, others not, but the largest meadow I entered was busy, footballs being kicked around by some groups and a number of sunbathers. On and around a bench seat at one corner were a large number of young children playing, with adults from probably three families all mixing.

After taking some photos elsewhere in the reserve I headed for home and on one path I saw a probably Eastern European woman approaching pushing a pram and three other young children with her, blocking the whole path. Suddenly the youngest, a little boy of probably between two and three, laid down on the ground in front of me and started eating the earth! It's the sort of thing babies sometimes do, but startling from someone his age. I laughed and clearly embarassed his mother did too, picking him up and smacking him. Again this was five of us milling around in a small space.

Finally at 7.45pm I went out for the fourth time for the usual late Wednesday shop at my supermarket, getting there at 8, they close at 9. I first started that evening custom to avoid having to endure the separation queues in the day. Originally it was quiet then, but many more have followed my example since so although no queue, it was very busy inside with the usual lack of separation.

There you have it, a truthful account of a typical day in my life and that of sample other Londoners over recent weeks that I'd carefully noted with a view to a post like this.

Remember that Warwick Professor's statement,

"Londoners have made a brilliant effort in adhering to lock-down advice, and bringing the infection under control."

Adding the fact that as the ONS reports, London has suffered up to double the infection and death rates of the rest of the country from early in this episode, and hopefully you'll realise what bunkum that Professor said. London, partly through circumstances and partly through lack of co-operation has performed badly with separation, suffered the consequences early but reaping some benefit now by leading the country with a low "r".
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