Won't it be too late once you have it? I hope you don't get it, but I thought the idea was that you have the vaccine to resist infection in the first place? Or can vaccines be used to help people fight off the infection once it enters them?
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Ah you've spotted my cunning plan Captain! said Baldric.
I shall be the first person to find out!
I am of course joking, I believe a vaccine only works with Rabies, after a bite as the progress of the disease is so slow, but of course That may not be correct.
Though perhaps if this virus mutates into a more virulent form after initial infection, perhaps there is a possibility of it working if designed for the more dangerous strain and administered early enough after testing?
That, as you will gather is a bit of wishful thinking!
The reason this entered my woolly old brain was because I wondered how they were going to test the vaccine.. what exactly they would expose the victims to after administration of the vaccine
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Oh Dear Oh Dear, Oh Dear.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet
Nurse shortage causes Nightingale hospital to turn away patients
Exclusive: Covid-19 patient transfers to new London facility cancelled owing to lack of ICU nurses
The disclosure comes amid a growing belief among hospital management in the capital that the Nightingale, built to great acclaim over just nine days, was becoming a “white elephant”.
The hospital has been unable to admit about 50 people with the disease and needing “life or death” care since its first patient arrived at the site, in the ExCeL exhibition centre, in London’s Docklands, on 7 April. Thirty of these people were rejected because of a lack of staff.
The planned transfer of more than 30 patients from established London hospitals to the Nightingale was “cancelled due to staffing issues”, according to NHS documents seen by the Guardian. All the patients had been intubated and were on a ventilator because they were so unwell.
The revelation raises questions about the role and future of the hospital, which up until Monday had only treated 41 patients, despite being designed to include almost 4,000 beds.
That means that the hospital has rejected more patients, owing to a combination of understaffing and the patients’ health, than it has treated. Of those 41 patients, four have died, seven have been discharged to a less critical level of care, and the other 30 were still being cared for at the Nightingale.
The hospital is being obliged to reject people needing care because it cannot get enough of the nurses usually based in other hospitals to work there, staff at the new facility claimed.
One member of staff said: “There are plenty of people working here, including plenty of doctors. But there aren’t enough critical care nurses. They’re already working in other hospitals and being run ragged there. There aren’t spare people [specialist nurses] around to do this. That’s the problem. That leads to patients having to be rejected, because there aren’t enough critical care nurses.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/21/nurse-shortage-causes-nightingale-hospital-to-turn-away-patients?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet
Nurse shortage causes Nightingale hospital to turn away patients
Exclusive: Covid-19 patient transfers to new London facility cancelled owing to lack of ICU nurses
The disclosure comes amid a growing belief among hospital management in the capital that the Nightingale, built to great acclaim over just nine days, was becoming a “white elephant”.
The hospital has been unable to admit about 50 people with the disease and needing “life or death” care since its first patient arrived at the site, in the ExCeL exhibition centre, in London’s Docklands, on 7 April. Thirty of these people were rejected because of a lack of staff.
The planned transfer of more than 30 patients from established London hospitals to the Nightingale was “cancelled due to staffing issues”, according to NHS documents seen by the Guardian. All the patients had been intubated and were on a ventilator because they were so unwell.
The revelation raises questions about the role and future of the hospital, which up until Monday had only treated 41 patients, despite being designed to include almost 4,000 beds.
That means that the hospital has rejected more patients, owing to a combination of understaffing and the patients’ health, than it has treated. Of those 41 patients, four have died, seven have been discharged to a less critical level of care, and the other 30 were still being cared for at the Nightingale.
The hospital is being obliged to reject people needing care because it cannot get enough of the nurses usually based in other hospitals to work there, staff at the new facility claimed.
One member of staff said: “There are plenty of people working here, including plenty of doctors. But there aren’t enough critical care nurses. They’re already working in other hospitals and being run ragged there. There aren’t spare people [specialist nurses] around to do this. That’s the problem. That leads to patients having to be rejected, because there aren’t enough critical care nurses.”
you use blood plasma of those who were vaccinated to treat those who weren't.
A Nobel Prize-winning scientist has accused the Welsh and UK governments of a "dereliction of duty" for failing to make better use of domestic assistance to address testing and kit shortages.
Sir Martin Evans said every resource should be mustered against coronavirus.
But instead he claimed "they're not using our own resources at all". He said a Cardiff University offering help has had no reply.
The Welsh Government said the university is involved.
Cardiff University said Sir Martin was expressing personal opinions that "in no way" reflect its views.
BBC Wales also approached the UK government for comment.
Both governments have struggled to meet targets for testing they have set themselves, and have faced challenges with personal protective equipment (PPE).
But he said they "have not been accepted so far" because of the approach of Public Health Wales and Public Health England.
"I'm very concerned that this approach is one of petty bureaucracy, pettifogging, [and] form filling," he said.
"We are, in my opinion, in a war type situation. People are dying.
"We have an invisible enemy sweeping the country. We need to use every resource we can muster against it and yet our government, our governments I should say, are not doing this."
Image copyright PA Media Image caption PPE is proving a challenge across the UK
"They are trying to buy equipment from abroad, trying to buy PPE from abroad, trying to buy testing from abroad," Sir Martin said.
"They're not using our own resources at all and I think this is a dereliction of duty."
Sir Martin won the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2007 alongside two colleagues for their work in using stem cells to modify genes in mice. He was chancellor of Cardiff University for eight years, stepping down from the ceremonial role in 2017.
He said he wrote to the first minister and Health Minister Vaughan Gething about his concerns and has received no response, other than an acknowledgement of receipt of his letter.
A letter from the vice-chancellor of Cardiff University to the Welsh Government offering help has had no response either, he said.
'Surprised'
On Tuesday, Mr Gething said Wales had sufficient stock of PPE to last for a "few days".
A target of 5,000 tests per day in Wales was abandoned earlier this week. Mr Gething has said Wales does not need so many tests with the lockdown reducing infections.
A Welsh Government spokesman said: "We are surprised to hear Professor Evans' comments, particularly as Cardiff University is testing PPE equipment for us as well as advising on PPE testing, reprocessing materials and standards. They are also supporting our cyber security work linked to coronavirus.
"On testing they recently supplied a large amount of chemical reagents and support operational delivery. Academics from the university also provide scientific advice and work on our Covid-19 testing programme.
"They are also playing a leading role in the convalescent plasma programme, which is trialling new ways of treating Covid-19 patients.
"We thank them for their ongoing and important support."
'Extremely challenging time'
A Cardiff University spokesman said: "These are the personal views of Professor Sir Martin Evans. They in no way reflect the views of Cardiff University.
"We have written to the Welsh Government offering our unreserved support, recognising that this is an extremely challenging time.
"We remain in contact with Welsh Government and Public Health Wales officials and will help in any way we can."
Sir Martin Evans said every resource should be mustered against coronavirus.
But instead he claimed "they're not using our own resources at all". He said a Cardiff University offering help has had no reply.
The Welsh Government said the university is involved.
Cardiff University said Sir Martin was expressing personal opinions that "in no way" reflect its views.
BBC Wales also approached the UK government for comment.
Both governments have struggled to meet targets for testing they have set themselves, and have faced challenges with personal protective equipment (PPE).
- Deaths hit 20-year high - but peak may be over
- 'A few days' full PPE stock left - Welsh minister
- Wales 'does not currently need 5,000 tests a day'
But he said they "have not been accepted so far" because of the approach of Public Health Wales and Public Health England.
"I'm very concerned that this approach is one of petty bureaucracy, pettifogging, [and] form filling," he said.
"We are, in my opinion, in a war type situation. People are dying.
"We have an invisible enemy sweeping the country. We need to use every resource we can muster against it and yet our government, our governments I should say, are not doing this."
Image copyright PA Media Image caption PPE is proving a challenge across the UK
"They are trying to buy equipment from abroad, trying to buy PPE from abroad, trying to buy testing from abroad," Sir Martin said.
"They're not using our own resources at all and I think this is a dereliction of duty."
Sir Martin won the Nobel Prize for Medicine in 2007 alongside two colleagues for their work in using stem cells to modify genes in mice. He was chancellor of Cardiff University for eight years, stepping down from the ceremonial role in 2017.
He said he wrote to the first minister and Health Minister Vaughan Gething about his concerns and has received no response, other than an acknowledgement of receipt of his letter.
A letter from the vice-chancellor of Cardiff University to the Welsh Government offering help has had no response either, he said.
'Surprised'
On Tuesday, Mr Gething said Wales had sufficient stock of PPE to last for a "few days".
A target of 5,000 tests per day in Wales was abandoned earlier this week. Mr Gething has said Wales does not need so many tests with the lockdown reducing infections.
A Welsh Government spokesman said: "We are surprised to hear Professor Evans' comments, particularly as Cardiff University is testing PPE equipment for us as well as advising on PPE testing, reprocessing materials and standards. They are also supporting our cyber security work linked to coronavirus.
"On testing they recently supplied a large amount of chemical reagents and support operational delivery. Academics from the university also provide scientific advice and work on our Covid-19 testing programme.
"They are also playing a leading role in the convalescent plasma programme, which is trialling new ways of treating Covid-19 patients.
"We thank them for their ongoing and important support."
'Extremely challenging time'
A Cardiff University spokesman said: "These are the personal views of Professor Sir Martin Evans. They in no way reflect the views of Cardiff University.
"We have written to the Welsh Government offering our unreserved support, recognising that this is an extremely challenging time.
"We remain in contact with Welsh Government and Public Health Wales officials and will help in any way we can."
they pay the volunteers a fat sum so they wll take the risk to be infected later with COVID19.
Half of them are injected with Sarah Gilbert's vaccine, the other half with an approved vaccine (meningitis vaccine) that has nothing in common with CV.
After a couple of weeks, both groups receive a dose of COVID19.
Those who got the meningitis vaccine are expected to show symptoms of infection and will report their symptoms. A few of the other group may also show symptoms. The difference in numbers belonging in each group represents the efficacy of the vaccine. If it's half and half, then the new vaccine is useless, if all of those reporting symptoms belong to the group that received the meningitis vaccine then the new vaccine is 100% efficacious.
And the Ones who get the virus have to hope they’re lucky and they-survive?
Include me out
At this stage of life there isn’t anything all the money in the world could persuade me to take such a risk for, I may only have a limited life expectancy but money can’t buy it
their chances of surviving COVID19 is better than 99% to both groups, the real risk is for those who will be injected with the new vaccine which may produce unforeseen long term adverse reactions in later years.
Today's paper on this perfect drug, this beautiful beautiful medicine that is going to solve this little problem... It will open up the USA.
CONCLUSIONS: In this study, we found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19. An association of increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone. These findings highlight the importance of awaiting the results of ongoing prospective, randomized, controlled studies before widespread adoption of these drugs.
but our government will offer you the new vaccine as the way to get out of self isolation.
Will you take it?
I guess many millions of us will.
But will our government tell us that it's a man made virus?
if it does not get me high i dont want it i have been stoned for 30 years anyway drink cider smoke tobacco that says on the packet it is going to kill me and have to wait like a pleb in line to go in to tesco to buy a item that will kill me.
not going to happen i have not changed anything i do why do i need a cure lmao.
The normal process is to give one population the active vaccine and an othef similar population a dummy. Then check on the rates of infection on both populations. Medical ethics , except with a Dr Mengles ,means that they cannot deliberately infect both populations ..
Although there were suggestions that they might, provided they had a treatment which they were sure would work..even if not scalable
the problem is both virologists and government agencies that sponsor them avoid carefully mention that these vaccines are man made viruses. They use terms like vectors and cell lines to hide the fact that they are man made.
If they were telling you: this virus will 'inhibit' the one you are frightened by, would you like to be injected with either?
If they were telling you: this virus will 'inhibit' the one you are frightened by, would you like to be injected with either?
Remember cowpox wasn't man made!
Not all vaccines contain the full set of genetic material to be able to reproduce in any sense. Just similar enough for our immune systems to react and be expected then to reognise and attack any of the real virus.
But if the volunteers are frontline NHS staff without adequate PPE...
the new generation of vaccines are not like the old ones, that's why none of the RNA vaccines has been approved.
Now CORVID gives virologists an opportunity they could only dream of. Not only governments all over the world give them special dispensation, they pay them handsomely for their research!
Have you looked at the way they make the new vaccines?
Just wiki DNA vaccines and RNA vaccines. The one going forward to trial this week is an mRNA vaccine.
quote:
- The mRNA strand in the vaccine may elicit an unintended immune reaction. To minimise this, the mRNA vaccine sequences are designed to mimic those produced by mammalian cells.[13]
- Preclinical experience with vaccine candidates for SARS and the Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS) have raised concerns about exacerbating lung disease, either directly or as a result of antibody-dependent enhancement.[14]
- A possible concern could be that some mRNA-based vaccine platforms induce potent type I interferon responses, which have been associated not only with inflammation but also potentially with autoimmunity. Thus, identification of individuals at an increased risk of autoimmune reactions before mRNA vaccination may allow reasonable precautions to be taken.[15]
Since the discovery of in vitro transcribed mRNA expression in vivo following direct administration, in vivo approaches have become more and more attractive.[17] They offer some advantages over ex vivo methods, most significantly by avoiding the cost of harvesting and adapting DCs from patients and by imitating a regular infection. However, there are multiple obstacles for these methods that are yet to be overcome for RNA vaccination to be a potent procedure. Evolutionary mechanisms that prevent the infiltration of unknown nucleic material and promote degradation by RNAses should be avoided in order to initiate translation. In addition, the mobility of RNA on its own is completely dependent on regular cell processes because it is too heavy to diffuse, consequently it is bound to be eliminated, halting translation.
RNA vaccine - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
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| Tuesday | 21/04/2020 | |||||
| Country | 2018 population | Total cases | Deaths | Deaths / cases % | Cases / pop % | Death/pop % |
| England | 55,977,178 | 96,117 | 15,606 | 16.2% | 0.17% | 0.028% |
| Northern Ireland | 1,881,641 | 2,758 | 207 | 7.5% | 0.15% | 0.011% |
| Scotland | 5,438,100 | 8,672 | 915 | 10.6% | 0.16% | 0.017% |
| Wales | 3,138,631 | 7,852 | 609 | 7.8% | 0.25% | 0.019% |
66,435,550 | 115,399 | 17,337 | 15.0% | 0.17% | 0.026% | |
| Monday | 20/04/2020 | |||||
| Country | 2018 population | Total cases | Deaths | Deaths / cases % | Cases / pop % | Death/pop % |
| England | 55,977,178 | 93,030 | 14,828 | 15.9% | 0.17% | 0.026% |
| Northern Ireland | 1,881,641 | 2,728 | 194 | 7.1% | 0.14% | 0.010% |
| Scotland | 5,438,100 | 8,450 | 903 | 10.7% | 0.16% | 0.017% |
| Wales | 3,138,631 | 7,546 | 584 | 7.7% | 0.24% | 0.019% |
66,435,550 | 111,754 | 16,509 | 14.8% | 0.17% | 0.025% |
Wasn't that young Mr Grace ? And I'm unanimous in that say's Mrs Slocombe
