Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

Totally agreed, I mentioned in earlier post its our duty to help pay for certain things. However, IMO, transport, production of steel and coal are not on that list. They should be run under premise of profit and loss.
If a service between 2 destinations is not profitable, it means insufficient are willing or wanting to travel between them. In your example of Spanish trains, why should some Spanish tax payer subsidise your pleasant journey?
And nationalisation is against EU policy??!!
There are no objecive reasons why nationalising our rail network will bring about any improvements. Infact, the threat of such is probably putting investors off.

Where does it say that nationalisation is against EU Policy?. Be careful of quoting dogma. If it were, we would not continue to have community owned resources. Case in point the EU committee charged with a round of infrastructural funding INSISTED that Dublin invest in its water services before it would sign off on other more politically attractive projects. The EU at the time were dead right as the distribution network was Victorian and crumbling, but local politicians could not see votes in digging holes. The water system at the time was in national or public ownership.

 

[flecc]

If a service between 2 destinations is not profitable, it means insufficient are willing or wanting to travel between them. In your example of Spanish trains, why should some Spanish tax payer subsidise your pleasant journey?

Because the greatly increased use of good and reasonable priced services justifies further expansion.

In Spain's case they now have superb high speed trains running on the longest network in Europe. Need I remind you of how backward we are in that area?
.

 

[Danidl]

Agreed, it needs massive investment, like our roads do, and our schools, and our police, and our hospitals... All gone down hill since 1972...

.. Interestingly these would coincide with the withdrawal of Empire..no coincidence?.

 

[flecc]

Agreed, it needs massive investment, like our roads do, and our schools, and our police, and our hospitals... All gone down hill since 1972...

Thanks largely to our politics and national failings, not the EU as you are trying to imply.

Where the EU has had a hand as in industrial investment, we've grown since 1972. All the car factories and Airbus and satellite production for example.

That we've failed to directly invest in essentials and introduced stupidities like PFI is entirely our own fault.
.

 

[flecc]

Agreed, it needs massive investment, like our roads do, and our schools, and our police, and our hospitals... All gone down hill since 1972...

I wish all our roads did go downhill, wouldn't need e-bikes.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Fact Check: do new EU rules make it impossible to renationalise railways?

Brexiters on the Left fear that a UK vote to Remain would permanently put the railways in private hands. Here’s our Fact Check verdict.

theconversation.com

Suggest you read this flecc. Had it not been for Merkel nationalisation would have been all but impossible. Might still be,depends how it pans out. Ceetainly not outlawed, agreed, but certainly not desired either.


Opening up each countries network to competition!!! Liberising passenger services. How does that fit in with nationalising? It doesnt. We could nationalise entire service and then private contractors cherry pick profitable routes with tenders?

 

[boyabouttown]

Anyway, thanks for the debate, enjoyed it. Thanks to flecc for being a gentleman at all times, never losing his temper, even OG.

 

[flecc]

Fact Check: do new EU rules make it impossible to renationalise railways?

Brexiters on the Left fear that a UK vote to Remain would permanently put the railways in private hands. Here’s our Fact Check verdict.

theconversation.com

Suggest you read this flecc. Had it not been for Merkel nationalisation would have been all but impossible. Might still be,depends how it pans out. Ceetainly not outlawed, agreed, but certainly not desired either.

View attachment 30739
Opening up each countries network to competition!!! Liberising passenger services. How does that fit in with nationalising? It doesnt. We could nationalise entire service and then private contractors cherry pick profitable routes with tenders?

I had previously read this, but as I've posted previously, it's not compulsory so we can ignore it. Even if it were compulsory, we could do like many of the other member nations and still ignore it.

The EU isn't obsessed with this, they just have to make their laws consistent with policy. In this case the open competition policy, but that's not relevant with full nationalisation since the state isn't competing with private firms. It's merely providing a service as it does with roads provision, and in doing so ensuring there is no rail market to compete in, just as there's no roads provision market.
.

 

[OxygenJames]

Yeh, so the 90% who don't use rail pay for the 10% that do, so they can buy cheap tickets, read, charge their iphones have wifi while someones drives them to work, while i pedal. i can see who benefits from the better service. Don't see how that results in economic growth, except in the rail travellers pocket.

Well.

In simple terms if you're a business at point B where we just put in a train line from point A to you there at point B (or speeded the last one up either way same result) - then we're delivering to you customers who would only be there and buy your stuff because our trains brought them there.

That's the obvious argument against your position.

Unless I am missing something.

 

[OxygenJames]

Anyway, thanks for the debate, enjoyed it. Thanks to flecc for being a gentleman at all times, never losing his temper, even OG.

Debate hang on the 'debate' is not over yet. Not at least till everybody's (OK me) has had their say you know. Its not come fire off and then disappear. Well. Some do I suppose.

Maybe you're one of those. Say your piece and not stick around to have to defend any inherent weaknesses within your position.

 

[Zlatan]

Well.

In simple terms if you're a business at point B where we just put in a train line from point A to you there at point B (or speeded the last one up either way same result) - then we're delivering to you customers who would only be there any buy your stuff because our trains brought them there.

That's the obvious argument against your position.

Unless I am missing something.

If you want to bring business.... You build a road.... And provide parking. Look where they put Meadow Hall or any other massive mall. Next to a motorway... Not a railway station. Its 2019....not 1850...
Ok, I, ll accept we need a rail network but we need an efficient road system loads more.

 

[oldgroaner]

Agreed, it needs massive investment, like our roads do, and our schools, and our police, and our hospitals... All gone down hill since 1972...

You mean since voting Conservative became the fashion? good point!

 

[oldgroaner]

Well.

In simple terms if you're a business at point B where we just put in a train line from point A to you there at point B (or speeded the last one up either way same result) - then we're delivering to you customers who would only be there any buy your stuff because our trains brought them there.

That's the obvious argument against your position.

Unless I am missing something.

Such as the first Mail order catalogue in the world ?

Where you could order by post from a catalogue, have it delivered to your local railway station, and either collect from there or have it locally delivered?

The date was 1861, and now after all this time shops are disappearing in favour of online ordering.This would be much more efficiently done by rail shipment and short road journeys from the local railway station that fleets of hundred of large and small lorries clogging the roads travelling huge mileages and polluting the environment.

Yes you are missing something .... as usual..

 

[oldgroaner]

If you want to bring business.... You build a road.... And provide parking. Look where they put Meadow Hall or any other massive mall. Next to a motorway... Not a railway station. Its 2019....not 1850...
Ok, I, ll accept we need a rail network but we need an efficient road system loads more.

Sorry to urinate on your bonfire, but Meadowhall has it's own railway station

"Meadowhall Interchange in Sheffield opened in 1990 at the same time as the Meadowhall Shopping Centre, linked to the station via a footbridge over the River Don. When it opened, Meadowhall was the second largest shopping centre in the country, and, today, it remains in the top ten. Thanks to Meadowhall Interchange, it is one of the few out-of-town shopping centres in the country fully integrated into the public transport network via the buses, trains and trams that all call at the station.

Happy to help as usual...

 

[oldgroaner]

Debate hang on the 'debate' is not over yet. Not at least till everybody's (OK me) has had their say you know. Its not come fire off and then disappear. Well. Some do I suppose.

Maybe you're one of those. Say your piece and not stick around to have to defend any inherent weaknesses within your position.

I commend you for this post, especially as you still keep plugging away despite the odds, and frequent reverses.
But hey! boyabouttown, do stay and join in the debate, you will find it excruciatingly addictive, for instance Zlatan came and kicked in the door intending to briefly purify the atmosphere ,defeat dragons, rescue maidens and drain the swamp... or was that the other way round?

He thought he was just passing through too, now with 4,081 posts behind him he still holds centre stage as the champion of last causes and fantastic dreams of Nirvana

He's like the smoker who has the "Willpower" to give up smoking and proved that three times last week.
Splendid fella

 

[oldgroaner]

Don't put the NHS up for negotiation petition now at 74, 468 signatures! at 5:50 pm

 

[boyabouttown]

Debate hang on the 'debate' is not over yet. Not at least till everybody's (OK me) has had their say you know. Its not come fire off and then disappear. Well. Some do I suppose.

Maybe you're one of those. Say your piece and not stick around to have to defend any inherent weaknesses within your position.

Sorry, i obviously didn't see the rules of engagement. It was just an opinion, i've given mine, others have given theirs, i was just killing a bit of time.

 

[OxygenJames]

If you want to bring business.... You build a road.... And provide parking. Look where they put Meadow Hall or any other massive mall. Next to a motorway... Not a railway station. Its 2019....not 1850...
Ok, I, ll accept we need a rail network but we need an efficient road system loads more.

It depends on the numbers. I don't know what they are. Do you?

Roads have their pros and cons just like everything else.

In some places I would guess improving the trains is the better option. Like I say - it depends on the numbers - on the analysis. Not my area of expertise.

 

[Wicky]

If you want to bring business.... You build a road.... And provide parking. Look where they put Meadow Hall or any other massive mall. Next to a motorway... Not a railway station. Its 2019....not 1850...
Ok, I, ll accept we need a rail network but we need an efficient road system loads more.

Here in Colchester they splashed out on a massive new magistrates court on land previously the car park immediately adjacent to Colchester Town train station - so Clacton scallywags have a simple straightforward journey and avoids the necessity of them driving unlicenced & uninsured the 15 miles from UKipopia-on-Sea. Business is booming with a cannabis cafe just opening nearby.

Projects

Built upon almost two centuries of experience, our multi-service, multi-sector, and multi-geographical approach gives us a rare perspective on how to…

www.ahr.co.uk

CBD coffee shop and hotel set to open in Colchester today

A new coffee shop and boutique hotel offering CBD and hemp products is set to open in Colchester.

www.gazette-news.co.uk

The future is bright!

 

[OxygenJames]

Sorry, i obviously didn't see the rules of engagement. It was just an opinion, i've given mine, others have given theirs, i was just killing a bit of time.

Sure no problem 'killing time' around here. But don't expect 'just your opinions' to go unchallenged if anybody here thinks they deserve to be challenged.

You seem to be making a case that spending money on trains only benefits the 10%. I'm not so sure the figures bear that out. But then I don't have the figures. But you speak as if you do - but don't produce any analysis to back that up. So - right - its just an opinion - so what in that case.