Brexit, for once some facts.

Danidl

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Just wait and see how many people will vote for them in the now-upcoming Eu elections. They are going to seriously wipe the floor in some areas.

The EU are going to wish they took the chance to get rid of us when they had it.
Don't flatter yourselves... The UKs posturings are an annoyance, no more no less. The only bother is that they will be acquiring pension rights ,which the UK will be required to pay off over the next 30 to 40 years
 
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Woosh

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All restriction does is drive people into illegal activities. Just like in the '30s when USA tried to ban alchoholic drinks, and much closer to home, how many people are using illegal electric bikes.
only a minority ride illegal electric bikes and may I say, you help them if they ask.
 
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vfr400

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Jun 12, 2011
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Spin again?
I made this comment

Drunk and disorderly football yobs? he sure looks like that when posing and posturing at the EU Parliament when he is supposed to be working in the interests of this country.

You made this statement
"That sounds like an elitist comment. There are a lot of football supporters in this country, "
Since when was it an "Elitist statement" to criticise Football Yobs? do they deserve political representation?
Do you want a Yob Faction in Parliament?
Good grief what nonsense we need sane and sober people in charge not loud mouthed drunken idiots, that would be even worse than it is now
You're just ranting again. Give us some facts.

You know full well that you were referring to all the Nigel Farage voters in general as a rabble, otherwise you would have used a term like "some of them are". You've given the game away. Anybody can see what you think of football supporters. It's a sort of bigoted, classist thing when you put all footballers into the same category of drunk and disorderly yobs or is it just the football supporters that vote for Farage? I would expect that most football supporters are nice responsible people with valid opinions, but, of course, that can't be true for you because some of them vote for Nigel Farage!
 
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Danidl

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You hit the nail on the head. Did you read the shooter's manifesto? Some of the reasons stated for doing it was that guys like him didn't have a platform to express their dissatisfaction, so the only recourse was violence. He specifically said that he wanted a reaction to his shooting that would silence people from talking about the issues that concerned him, with the consequence that it would drive them to do the same. Now we have more people silenced, which I find very worrying.

It's the same with Brexit. everybody needs their chance to say their piece and vote for who they want. The moment you try and silence them, they'll resort to violence.
.. that spiel is like the song sung by the thug in West Side Story. I think its caller Officer Kronkie...
People will listen when one have something worth saying. If one has nothing worth saying and is not prepared to develop their competence, then they should just stay stum. The world does not owe anyone an audience. If you are suggesting for a minute that it is our collective fault that self indulgent twits and thugs, seeking their moment of fame by gunning down others, think again.
 
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vfr400

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'Created' discontent. Ha. You really know nothing. He spoke to those who had been ignored - and gave them a voice - he spoke for them. He did not 'create' them. Dummy.
If it weren't Farage, it would be someone else. He's only a mouthpiece for these discontented guys. People don't understand how and why he's there. He got voted in by people who wanted him to represent them. That's called democracy. You can hate him all you like, but people will still vote for guys like that because they have different opinions about what's good for them to the haters.

The European election results will be with us soon. It's going to be an absolute shitfest. I guarantee it. I don't want a shitfest, but at least it'll show what people actually think. Changes will have to follow. I'm not happy with the status quo, so the end result might be good for me. I'm happy to take that chance, however, I've got a feeling that our politicians fear this shitfest so will try and get a deal through before the vote to avoid the embarrassment.
 
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Danidl

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You're just ranting again. Give us some facts.

You know full well that you were referring to all the Nigel Farage voters in general as a rabble, otherwise you would have used a term like "some of them are". You've given the game away. Anybody can see what you think of football supporters. It's a sort of bigoted, classist thing when you put all footballers into the same category of drunk and disorderly yobs or is it just the football supporters that vote for Farage? I would expect that most football supporters are nice responsible people with valid opinions, but, of course, that can't be true for you because some of them vote for Nigel Farage!
There is something odd about soccer supporters, how they behave,and how the authorities respond. The same does not occur,as far as I can see in any other code. The violence outside the Oval , Twickenham, or Wimbledon,is order of magnitude less. Our Croke Park in Dublin,home of GAA ,a much more robust game than soccer, routinely hosts crowds as large as any major Soccer stadium,yet the supporters mingle together and josh each other. The police handle it just as simple crowd control.
I am rarely in London, but was present at Fulham road,getting an airport bus,at the end of some Chelsea match. The noise of the police sirens and their vans dashing up and down, should put anyone on edge.
 
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vfr400

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only a minority ride illegal electric bikes and may I say, you help them if they ask.
I help anybody that asks me nicely for anything, including money if they need it. I don't judge anybody, nor do I tell anybody what they should or shouldn't do if they're adults.

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that there are only a few illegal electric bikes.
 

vfr400

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Yes,.. but we should not accept it. Even repeating it gives it a credibility it does not deserve.
I agree with you, but we mustn't hide it. We need to bring the issues out into the open and deal with them, not try and pretend that everything is OK when it isn't.
 

Wicky

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I agree with you, but we mustn't hide it. We need to bring the issues out into the open and deal with them, not try and pretend that everything is OK when it isn't.
If you want right wing hate promoting extremists pandered to and given public platform to promote their views- then by same token should the same be allowed for Islamic extremists or any other nut job group / individual.

Unfortunately simply mocking hate groups seems to inspire them to even more extremes i.e. Charlie Hebdo shooting.
 

Woosh

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The European election results will be with us soon. It's going to be an absolute shitfest. I guarantee it. I don't want a shitfest, but at least it'll show what people actually think. Changes will have to follow.
we are leaving, just waiting for JC to say the word.
As for the European parliament election, UKIP and Farage Brexit party are on 14% of voting intention at the moment.
In view that both those two parties are skint if not broke, can only see their share of the votes will be less than that.
Even if they win 20-25 seats, they can't do much now that we are about to leave.

Farage co-chairs Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD or EFD). They are expected to win 15 seats out of 705. He is a big cheese in the UK but not in the EP.
 
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flecc

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From that comment, It's pretty clear that you know nothing about the guy. You're just repeating what the bent media have told you.
In saying he has used five different names I'm not repeating anything the media have told me. I made the observation that his use of five completely different names makes him a dishonest person.

In fact I've read or heard almost nothing about him in the media since he doesn't interest me. I only know of his anti muslim sentiments from two friends who are among his most ardent supporters and follow everything he says. They both understand him to be very anti Muslim, fitting with their own feelings, and have tried to convince me that he's a force for good in the way you are doing.

It hasn't worked with them and isn't with you. I don't see him as aforce for good at all, only as a troublemaker.
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Woosh

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latest 2019 EP poll:
it seems to confirm 56/44 for remain.

 
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flecc

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There's no theory. It's all fact, which you can check by watching the broadcast interview and his video evidence of the actual complete interview. Again, you're expressing an opinion without looking at the facts. Watch both the videos, then come back and tell us where the conspiracy is.
I didn't need to watch, didn't I say that I knew how the media manipulate? In other words, I accepted what you'd posted but don't think it important since it's what has always happened, again as I posted.

These are not conspiracies, they are just common practice which we all know. I have better things to do than waste time on them and those who promote them.
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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we are leaving, just waiting for JC to say the word.
As for the European parliament election, UKIP and Farage Brexit party are on 14% of voting intention at the moment.
In view that both those two parties are skint if not broke, can only see their share of the votes will be less than that.
Even if they win 20-25 seats, they can't do much now that we are about to leave.

Farage co-chairs Europe of Freedom and Direct Democracy (EFDD or EFD). They are expected to win 15 seats out of 705. He is a big cheese in the UK but not in the EP.
Thats 4 more than Croatia have. Saying he has no influence in EU with 15 seats is an admission of the flawed nature of EU???
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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All restriction does is drive people into illegal activities. Just like in the '30s when USA tried to ban alchoholic drinks, and much closer to home, how many people are using illegal electric bikes.
So is that an argument for scrapping all laws and regulations or ignoring them?

Obviously there has to be regulation, but in a country like ours there are millions of opinions about what the law should be. No matter what they are, there will be many disagreeing.

It's inevitable that law increasingly restricts as more and more people call for restriction, showing that it's not the authorities so much as the people who create the restrictions by demanding them. Look around you and you'll see numerous examples of this.

We'll only get less restrictive law when the people themselves become more tolerant.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Or maybe not?

However, since the 1998 Crime and Disorder Act became law, the maximum sentence for treason in the UK is life imprisonment.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2014/oct/17/treason-act-facts-british-extremists-iraq-syria-isis

Sorry, but I am not going to wade through the Act to try to decide whether or not death penalty still applies!
Yes, I had posted a correction earlier. It was a death penalty that survived the past bans on that, and why a London prison still has a maintained working gallows. It seems the authorities went soft in 1998, perhaps out of guilt after passing two laws in 1994 and 1996 which aimed to increase the rate of prosecution success. By very doubtful means such as concealing evidence of innocence.
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Nev

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May 1, 2018
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What do you folks think is the chance that we will have EU elections here? I think its a bit less than 50%, and I think the chance of JC and TM coming up with a deal both can live with is a bit more than 50%.

JC wants to leave the EU, and he does not want a second referendum. My understanding of Labours position on a second referendum is that it should happen in the event of a no deal (WTO) or it should happen if May gets her current deal through.

If however a deal is worked out between JC and TM that probably consists of some kind of customs union then JC will not feel obliged to ask for a second referendum. This will cheese off a lot of his members, but he can say he is only following the agreed policy that was passed at conference last year.
 
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