Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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I think we get that by your sheer repetition - and that you find your opinion in alignment and confirmed by Tory aligned media shouldn't be a surprise to anyone esp yourself.
Probably yes..
IMG_20190413_172943.jpg
But neither myself or media are the only critics of current fiasco.(by Corbyn)
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Even if I had more or less accepted Farage, this would have been a very strong disincentive to continue with that view:

Since April 2018, Farage has been a strong advocate for U.S. President Donald Trump to receive the Nobel Peace Prize on the basis of his attempt to bring better diplomatic relations between North Korea and South Korea as well as better diplomatic relations between North Korea and the United States. As a member of the European Parliament, Farage expressed his desire to begin an official petition for Trump to receive the award.
The Nobel Peace Prize has become somewhat a joke.

Yasser Arafat, Yitzak Rabin and Shimon Perez got one for the peace they brought to Israel and Palestine, despite its invisibility.

George W Bush and Tony Bair have been repeatedly nominated for one by the Nobel Committee, though fortunately protests each time have prevented that coming to fruition.

And Aung San Suu Kyi was given one for her record in Myanmar, but look at her record since in respect of the Rohingya driven out of her country with murderous force.

History indicates it should normally only be a posthumous award, once it's shown to be deserved over time.

However, the EU got one, that was well deserved.
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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That sounds like an elitist comment. There are a lot of football supporters in this country, and they are part of this country whether you like it or not. They have a right to representation just like anybody else. Most of them have a right to vote. If there are enough of them to vote Nigel Farge in, theyll have their democratic representation of their views. Do you support democracy, or do you think it would be better to have a democracy, where only your views are supported? I think that there's another name for that.

I'm not a footballer and I don’t get drunk, neither do I particularly like Nigel Farage, but I'm happy that our democratic process gives them a chance to participate.
Spin again?
I made this comment

Drunk and disorderly football yobs? he sure looks like that when posing and posturing at the EU Parliament when he is supposed to be working in the interests of this country.

You made this statement
"That sounds like an elitist comment. There are a lot of football supporters in this country, "
Since when was it an "Elitist statement" to criticise Football Yobs? do they deserve political representation?
Do you want a Yob Faction in Parliament?
Good grief what nonsense we need sane and sober people in charge not loud mouthed drunken idiots, that would be even worse than it is now
 
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oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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The Nobel Peace Prize has become somewhat a joke.

Yasser Arafat, Yitzak Rabin and Shimon Perez got one for the peace they brought to Israel and Palestine, despite its invisibility.

George W Bush and Tony Bair have been repeatedly nominated for one by the Nobel Committee, though fortunately protests each time have prevented that coming to fruition.

And Aung San Suu Kyi was given one for her record in Myanmar, but look at her record since in respect of the Rohingya driven out of her country with murderous force.

History indicates it should normally only be a posthumous award, once it's shown to be deserved over time.

However, the EU got one, that was well deserved.
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Looks like some of the committee felt that they could use it to influence the recipients - though looks like we both disagree with that approach.

Maybe not literally posthumous, but post-active role, or any possibility of taking up an active role again, would make sense?
 
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50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
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Spin again?
I made this comment

Drunk and disorderly football yobs? he sure looks like that when posing and posturing at the EU Parliament when he is supposed to be working in the interests of this country.

You made this statement
"That sounds like an elitist comment. There are a lot of football supporters in this country, "
Since when was it an "Elitist statement" to criticise Football Yobs? do they deserve political representation?
Do you want a Yob Faction in Parliament?
Good grief what nonsense we need sane and sober people in charge not loud mouthed drunken idiots, that would be even worse than it is now
Just ask them what it is that they want Farage to deliver as a result of Brexit. That shuts them up, because they have no clue what they want or how to get it.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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And "Tommy Robinson" isn't manipulating the truth when he's used five completely different names over time?

Clearly he is intrinsically a dishonest person, and I cannot understand why you have allowed yourself to fall for his propaganda. His true underlying agenda has always been very clear, it's a personal feud against Muslims and Islam.
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From that comment, It's pretty clear that you know nothing about the guy. You're just repeating what the bent media have told you. Why didn't you watch that video I linked to above?

You're really going down in my esteem, Flecc, not because you disagree with me, but because instead of seeking the truth and informing people accordingly, you're just spouting regurgitated propaganda. Can you show a single piece of evidence that indicates that TR doesn't like Muslims in general. Everything he does goes under the most intense scrutiny by his enemies of which there are plenty. If he had ever written or said anything against Muslims, he'd be in jail. He's never been charged with any hate crimes.
 

oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
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Just ask them what it is that they want Farage to deliver as a result of Brexit. That shuts them up, because they have no clue what they want or how to get it.
Just go to the brexit party website and read their policies. Oh! They haven't got any.

Other than saying they have events, imploring you to join and donate, listing candidates, and very general slogans, there is nothing that passes as statements of policy.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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I can't think of anybody in the last 50 years that has cost the UK so much money and created so much discontent in the country. If it had not been for him DC would not have put his party in front of the country and called a referendum.

Prior to the referendum Brexit was something like 8th or 9th place down the pecking order of what people were concerned about. The country at the time was doing quite well we had one of the highest growth rates in the G8.

Now for the last 3 years growth has been really poor, companies are not investing to improve productivity. Many foreign investors have been looking elsewhere. The government has had no band width for dealing with anything else except Brexit.

Money and energy has been wasted on no deal planning, I imagine its very difficult to work out the exact figure but if Farage had never existed then the country would be tens of billions of pounds better off, which could have been invested into health, education and social services. This then perhaps would have gone some way to help the many of millions of people who voted leave because they felt no one was listening to them.

Areas of the country that have been left behind are not going to be helped if we leave the EU, what was needed in these areas was investment into these areas in the form of infrastructure, education and training etc. The billions wasted on this Brexit shambles could have been put to far better use and the country would have been in a much better place right now, instead of the laughing stock it has become around the world.

I don't just blame NF for the mess we are currently in but he bares a large part of the responsibility, it is quite frightening how one man is peace time can cause such devastation to the country.
'Created' discontent. Ha. You really know nothing. He spoke to those who had been ignored - and gave them a voice - he spoke for them. He did not 'create' them. Dummy.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
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Just go to the brexit party website and read their policies. Oh! They haven't got any.

Other than saying they have events, imploring you to join and donate, listing candidates, and very general slogans, there is nothing that passes as statements of policy.
Just wait and see how many people will vote for them in the now-upcoming Eu elections. They are going to seriously wipe the floor in some areas.

The EU are going to wish they took the chance to get rid of us when they had it.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Maybe something to do with the rise of ISIS and New Zealand mosque murders and the (self) radicalisation and violent extremism occuring via the internet.
You hit the nail on the head. Did you read the shooter's manifesto? Some of the reasons stated for doing it was that guys like him didn't have a platform to express their dissatisfaction, so the only recourse was violence. He specifically said that he wanted a reaction to his shooting that would silence people from talking about the issues that concerned him, with the consequence that it would drive them to do the same. Now we have more people silenced, which I find very worrying.

It's the same with Brexit. everybody needs their chance to say their piece and vote for who they want. The moment you try and silence them, they'll resort to violence.
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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You seem like a conspiracy theorist to me, looking for any suspected establishment conspiracies against the "little man".

I'm not, I'm just a realist who's always been aware the media manipulate to fit their own agenda. Newspapers have been doing it for almost two centuries and political parties do it openly for all to see.

So I just keep an open mind and take information from multiple sources to deduce what's rationally likely to be near the truth.
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There's no theory. It's all fact, which you can check by watching the broadcast interview and his video evidence of the actual complete interview. Again, you're expressing an opinion without looking at the facts. Watch both the videos, then come back and tell us where the conspiracy is.
 

oyster

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Nov 7, 2017
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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I fully agree with the overall aim of your remarks. What I found somewhat disturbing in VFRs information about websites which are impossible to monitor is just how valuable a tool for lying, character assassination, propaganda, terror attacks they provide. Natural Justice demands that anyone whose good name is impunged should have right of reply and redress.
We see this the same except you have a misunderstanding about these new websites. They've come about because people are getting deplatformed and denied the right to reply on the mainstream sites. The new sites are not secret nor restricted. Anybody can go there and say what they want within the law.

BTW, did you understand the recent vote on article 13 and 11. They will both have massive implications on how we're allowed to use the internet, so instead of the internet we have now, a pirate internet might well spring up, just like the pirate radio in the '60s. It's going to be interesting to see how this develops. The directive was voted in. Now it's down to the governments in each EU country to bring in their own legislation in line with the directive.

All restriction does is drive people into illegal activities. Just like in the '30s when USA tried to ban alchoholic drinks, and much closer to home, how many people are using illegal electric bikes.
 
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Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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Just wait and see how many people will vote for them in the now-upcoming Eu elections. They are going to seriously wipe the floor in some areas.

The EU are going to wish they took the chance to get rid of us when they had it.
they can only be a nuisance if TM revokes A50.
 
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