Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
That's all completely fake. If you look at your post #520061, where you quoted me and replied to it, in which I said,
" Even a Google search shows almost zero newspaper headlines. No video clips from CNN nor the BBC. Was there anything on our news? Why is that? Could it because the anti-immigration, anti-globalisation, anti-EU, nationalistic party won? You would have thought that an event like that would be all over the news. "
and your direct reply was,
"Not at all,they have never been reported before have they? "
The problem is that when people lie and spin their way out of arguments, it sort of undermines their credibility. Instead of debating the point that's being made, you have try to cast doubt on its validity.
Anybody can do their own Google search on the Dutch election to see whether what I say is true. Did you do one? If so, why not post your comments on it with your own explanation?
And that's a how a small minority of right wing extremists in the Tory Party swayed the Party and establishment and of folk who think themselves ordinary - from voting for Maggie* who built a bleeding great Tunnel to bring us closer to Europe and within a generation proposing to do an complete about turn with Brexit - from hope to fear - all it needed was convincing a significant percentage of gullible referendum voters with a few slogans about 'taking back control' via (marketing / propaganda guru Dominic Cummings) and it swayed or levered the country into the mess we fund ourselves in.
*"It will also be a demonstration of how to go about the practical making of Europe and demolishing its barriers. Indeed we may have an interesting race between the promised completion of the single Common Market in 1992 and the Tunnel a year later." 1987 Jul 29 Margaret Thatcher
And yes I've seen it in village Cricket clubs which are politically UKIP Dad's Army style patriotic for Queen & Country - the least prone to any migrants in their country locales finding themselves deprived of imported overseas players/ringers and whinging about Home Office rules & regs! My club plays in town and happily accommodates players from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Germany, Holland, Australia NZ South Africa etc. See what I said last year when I spoke to Guardian journalist...
Just not cricket: English clubs cry foul over new ruling on amateur status
It depends if you are of an age when you watched original Star Trek and saw diverse makeup of crew as normal and this was reflected at school with diverse peers and teachers and carry on applying with my Cricket Club and work in NHS. These values I seek to promote as a school Governor and I fear the day when politically appointed Governors come from bigoted extreme right wing.
In case it escaped you - the rise of the xenophobic extreme right is closely tied with scapegoating immigration and casting of a new underclass and in turn with blaming EU. Plus making Liberal seem like a dirty word.
We try but it has this to contend with...
You are really obsessed with this no mark aren’t you.
What’s interesting is that he is mild compared to Marine Le Pen. Very mild. She became a major player in 2008. 3 years after France said Voted No to EU by 55 to 45. Their MPs also overturned the people’s vote.
The swing to the hard right will happen here if we don’t leave. They will make Farage look like a call me Dave.
Could you not have finished the sentence?. I will help. "Offence"
Please try and stay on topic. You’re starting to take on the traits of the other chap who constantly witters on about anything but the topic.
Thank you in advance.
but it's one part of the truth though.
Although FvD came to the attention, quite a lot of tactical voting went on. Geert Wilders' party PVV lost a few seats. The Dutch system is PR, so FvD benefited from transfer of votes from the PVV.
It's true that there is a rise of right wing populism across EU countries but by and large, they are still very much a minority.
I’m guessing this is a northern insult?
I have heard Alan Brazil use this term before. I don’t really get it tbh but if it makes you happy then I am happy.
I still think there will be the biggest ever return for the far right in the history of EU elections. It could be quite worryingly big.
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I get what you're saying. It sounds sort of plausible, but I think you're not right on one point, and I think your sort of thinking is why the Brexit vote backfired on the establishment. Rather than gullible, the average voting guy makes up their own mind and isn't easily swayed by propaganda. Their feelings on the EU were well-established long before the referendum, and they're still the same today. I guarantee that if we had another in/out referendum next week, the result would be the same or even more pro-Brexit. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the government don't want Brexit. Their only option now is a referendum of some sort. It'll be interesting to see what choices they put on there.
To me, there are three possible solutions to the problem. We can change our minds and remain. The implications of that on the democratic process are frightening, so it could only happen from another referendum, but that could only work if there were an overwhelming majority, which is not going to happen. Secondly, we could do a no-deal Brexit. I personally don't believe that it would be as bad as they say for the average UK guy, but there will certainly be some losers. Thirdly, the rules of engagement in the EU could change to make remaining a much better situation. With the present arrogance, that's not going to happen, but if Spain, Italy, UK and Holland all turn against the EU dinosaurs, we could see some change in the near future. In that respect, the present delay until October is going to help a lot if we can all stay calm until then. With that solution, a large majority would be happy.
I agree. The Brexiters are mainly in denial about that, so it's going to bite them hard, which will turn them into a bunch of sourpusses.
Sorry, I meant remainers.
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You are correct about the people being more left wing if anything, the problem is that the populist leaders are in the main right wingers intent on making it better for themselves at the expense of the people.
Do not make the mistake to imagine that the likes of Farage and Mogg are on anyones side but their own.
Also when there has been a forty year campaign against the EU in the media, and the Government, do not assume personal immunity, nor the same among those around you.
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Regardless of the sentiments you express, the fact is that we do not have the means, will, resourses or expertise to thrive as an isolated nation. We failed before and had to be rescued.
It's really as simple as that and sentiment and wishing won't alter that
Dominic Cummings and Leave Campaign worked out a simple ratio IIRC of 33% of folk wanting to stay or 33% remain come what may - the remaining swayers were heavily targetted by various dubious means to convince them that they could have an effect over some nebuleus overarching authority The govt/ past govts / EU and vote Brexit wether it was they felt disinfranchised, feared Calais refugee camps, takeover of Birmingham by Balti restuarants. In 2016 it was as much a vote in the referendum for & against Cameron's govt and illusory EU bent bananas as anything.
As for the Average guy - think through what will happen to the average person in Sunderland , Lincs & Clacton-on-Sea if the country jumps off into Brexitland (runs away to the join the circus) heads even deeper into recession while trade deals are found / county is asset stripped from abroad even more so - compared to how instigators of Brexit, Farage, JRM BJ et al will fare - did they suffer a jolt during Tory imposed austerity and consider what they stand to gain...
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Maybe. I doubt it though.
And let's be honest. Apart from an outbreak of the plague there are areas in Sunderland and and Clacton that really can't get any poorer or deprived.
