Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I still think there will be the biggest ever return for the far right in the history of EU elections. It could be quite worryingly big.

waves of far right movements come and go. What are they going to do this time? blow the house down? Politicians like Farage and now Mark Francois play for their own audience in front of the TV (I know you have access to a lot more material that what the rest of us see on TV) and sooner or later, they'll do something real stupid because they don't ever build anything for the long term, are usually irresponsible, really all mouth and not much substance.
Remind me how many miles did Farage actually walk for brexit?

 

[Fingers]

waves of far right movements come and go. What are they going to do this time? blow the house down? Politicians like Farage and now Mark Francois play for their own audience in front of the TV (I know you have access to a lot more material that what the rest of us see on TV) and sooner or later, they'll do something real stupid because they don't ever build anything for the long term, are usually irresponsible, really all mouth and not much substance.
Remind me how many miles did Farage actually walk for brexit?

Francois, Bridgen et al cannot believe they are born. Prime time tv most nights of the week. But then the Same can be said of Soubry, Wollaston etc. And Farage is just a side show.

The difference is they will not be in the EU parliament. Let them spout their hot air. Im more concerned with the growing far right, real far right in France, Italy, Germany, Greece even Denmark.

In regard to having access to more material for a soundbite, 8 times out 10 with talking heads it’s the same clip but said again till it’s between 12 to 22 seconds long. Not usually that exciting tbh.

 

[vfr400]

You are correct about the people being more left wing if anything, the problem is that the populist leaders are in the main right wingers intent on making it better for themselves at the expense of the people.
Do not make the mistake to imagine that the likes of Farage and Mogg are on anyones side but their own.

Of course I agree with that. There are very few leaders that are not in it for what they can personally get out of it, which is one of the reasons I admire Tommy Robinson. As far as I can see, he's only ever had one agenda, and that's to solve a particular problem. Most of what he says and does is entirely honest, even if you don't agree with him. he always gives straight answers to questions and always gives his opponents a chance to give their side.

Here's another guy following Tommy's agenda. He's another straight talking, honest guy, but look how the TV show, in a completely dishonest way, falsified what he said and did, to make him look like a pariah. Notice that his previous video, where he first exposed Jim Jeffries got over 2 million views in little more than a week. That's pretty powerful stuff. a lot of people are interested in this sort of corruption. There's more and more evidence of it being exposed.

 

[vfr400]

Regardless of the sentiments you express, the fact is that we do not have the means, will, resourses or expertise to thrive as an isolated nation. We failed before and had to be rescued.
It's really as simple as that and sentiment and wishing won't alter that

That's just an opinion, not a fact, fortunately.

 

[Wicky]

That's just an opinion, not a fact, fortunately.

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

 

[Fingers]

https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377

It's a prediction. No one can predict the future though.

Their last prediction about brexit was when we had the referendum. The complete opposite has happened. This shows historical data too. But it doesn’t show what would have happened if we hadn’t joined. We just don’t know.

I think the EU would do all they can to make life difficult at first but it would calm down.

Not much would change.

 

[Danidl]

"It's a prediction. No one can predict the future though".
Yeah Fingers, they can and they call them predictions. The clue is the prefix "pre." . There is little value in predicting the past. But then a media mogul like yourself would have known that.

 

[oldgroaner]

That's all completely fake. If you look at your post #520061, where you quoted me and replied to it, in which I said,

" Even a Google search shows almost zero newspaper headlines. No video clips from CNN nor the BBC. Was there anything on our news? Why is that? Could it because the anti-immigration, anti-globalisation, anti-EU, nationalistic party won? You would have thought that an event like that would be all over the news. "

and your direct reply was,

"Not at all,they have never been reported before have they? "

The problem is that when people lie and spin their way out of arguments, it sort of undermines their credibility. Instead of debating the point that's being made, you have try to cast doubt on its validity.

Anybody can do their own Google search on the Dutch election to see whether what I say is true. Did you do one? If so, why not post your comments on it with your own explanation?

Nonsense! you are dissembling, the point I was was accurate, the BBC have not reported on Dutch elections in the past, as they don't regard them as pertinent to a UK audience, not because of what sort of party won the election, you can't spin your way out of that.
Bear this is mind
"The problem is that when people lie and spin their way out of arguments, it sort of undermines their credibility."
I responded to your point about the BBC not the rest of your post.

 

[oldgroaner]

Maybe. I doubt it though.

And let's be honest. Apart from an outbreak of the plague there are areas in Sunderland and and Clacton that really can't get any poorer or deprived.

Your experience of life and poverty is extremely limited to make a remark like that.

 

[oldgroaner]

I get what you're saying. It sounds sort of plausible, but I think you're not right on one point, and I think your sort of thinking is why the Brexit vote backfired on the establishment. Rather than gullible, the average voting guy makes up their own mind and isn't easily swayed by propaganda. Their feelings on the EU were well-established long before the referendum, and they're still the same today. I guarantee that if we had another in/out referendum next week, the result would be the same or even more pro-Brexit. I'm pretty sure that the majority of the government don't want Brexit. Their only option now is a referendum of some sort. It'll be interesting to see what choices they put on there.

To me, there are three possible solutions to the problem. We can change our minds and remain. The implications of that on the democratic process are frightening, so it could only happen from another referendum, but that could only work if there were an overwhelming majority, which is not going to happen. Secondly, we could do a no-deal Brexit. I personally don't believe that it would be as bad as they say for the average UK guy, but there will certainly be some losers. Thirdly, the rules of engagement in the EU could change to make remaining a much better situation. With the present arrogance, that's not going to happen, but if Spain, Italy, UK and Holland all turn against the EU dinosaurs, we could see some change in the near future. In that respect, the present delay until October is going to help a lot if we can all stay calm until then. With that solution, a large majority would be happy.

The average guy voted without having any idea what the EU actually is, or what is at stake, and that remains true to this day.
All they had to go on was propaganda, and that stretched back over a forty year period.

 

[OxygenJames]

Regardless of the sentiments you express, the fact is that we do not have the means, will, resourses or expertise to thrive as an isolated nation. We failed before and had to be rescued.
It's really as simple as that and sentiment and wishing won't alter that

UG - I've just read 'Churchill; Walking with Destiny' - fantastic read (all 1100 pages).

I think you might enjoy it - and it might well let you in on just how strong a nation this one can be - and what true leadership looks like.

It can be done.

We are not weak.

 

[oyster]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/11/uk-stands-down-6000-no-deal-brexit-staff-after-spending-15bn

The link has the characters "15bn" visible - but the story says a mere 1.5 billion. Is that all? Not worth worrying about...

 

[OxygenJames]

And that's a how a small minority of right wing extremists in the Tory Party swayed the Party and establishment and of folk who think themselves ordinary - from voting for Maggie* who built a bleeding great Tunnel to bring us closer to Europe and within a generation proposing to do an complete about turn with Brexit - from hope to fear - all it needed was convincing a significant percentage of gullible referendum voters with a few slogans about 'taking back control' via (marketing / propaganda guru Dominic Cummings) and it swayed or levered the country into the mess we fund ourselves in.

*"It will also be a demonstration of how to go about the practical making of Europe and demolishing its barriers. Indeed we may have an interesting race between the promised completion of the single Common Market in 1992 and the Tunnel a year later." 1987 Jul 29 Margaret Thatcher

And yes I've seen it in village Cricket clubs which are politically UKIP Dad's Army style patriotic for Queen & Country - the least prone to any migrants in their country locales finding themselves deprived of imported overseas players/ringers and whinging about Home Office rules & regs! My club plays in town and happily accommodates players from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Germany, Holland, Australia NZ South Africa etc. See what I said last year when I spoke to Guardian journalist...

Just not cricket: English clubs cry foul over new ruling on amateur status

It depends if you are of an age when you watched original Star Trek and saw diverse makeup of crew as normal and this was reflected at school with diverse peers and teachers and carry on applying with my Cricket Club and work in NHS. These values I seek to promote as a school Governor and I fear the day when politically appointed Governors come from bigoted extreme right wing.

"a small minority of right wing extremists"

I am am I? F*** you comes to mind.

 

[Zlatan]

Meanwhile my Infants school is issuing out redundancy notices to staff...

I, d got you a bit older than infant Wicki.

 

[OxygenJames]

Of course I agree with that. There are very few leaders that are not in it for what they can personally get out of it, which is one of the reasons I admire Tommy Robinson. As far as I can see, he's only ever had one agenda, and that's to solve a particular problem. Most of what he says and does is entirely honest, even if you don't agree with him. he always gives straight answers to questions and always gives his opponents a chance to give their side.

Here's another guy following Tommy's agenda. He's another straight talking, honest guy, but look how the TV show, in a completely dishonest way, falsified what he said and did, to make him look like a pariah. Notice that his previous video, where he first exposed Jim Jeffries got over 2 million views in little more than a week. That's pretty powerful stuff. a lot of people are interested in this sort of corruption. There's more and more evidence of it being exposed.

Absolutely shameful the way they do that. Disgraceful.

 

[Woosh]

The average guy voted without having any idea what the EU actually is, or what is at stake, and that remains true to this day.

my friend who is a high ranking solicitor in her working days, voted for brexit. She did not know that the government can revoke A50, even after the ECJ confirmed this.
People are not as interested in the subject as we (posters on here) are before the vote. Most of my friends are middle classes, brexit does not affect their life much, materially. It was easy for them to vote for brexit.

Overtime, they are less convinced that they did the right thing. My guess if they vote again on the subject, a few will change their votes.

 

[OxygenJames]

The average guy voted without having any idea what the EU actually is, or what is at stake, and that remains true to this day.
All they had to go on was propaganda, and that stretched back over a forty year period.

Utter nonsense. Nobody ever has all the facts. We vote on an instinct. We vote on a gut feeling in the end - because nobody - and I mean nobody EVER has ALL the facts.

 

[OxygenJames]

my friend who is a high ranking solicitor in her working days, voted for brexit. She did not know that the government can revoke A50, even after the ECJ confirmed this.
People are not as interested in the subject as we (posters on here) are before the vote. Most of my friends are middle classes, brexit does not affect their life much, materially. It was easy for them to vote for brexit.

Overtime, they are less convinced that they did the right thing. My guess if they vote again on the subject, a few will change their votes.

And from your miniscule sample size you make sweeping predictions about the intentions of 30+m people. Really....

 

[OxygenJames]

Your experience of life and poverty is extremely limited to make a remark like that.

Yeah but it was kinda funny.

 

[OxygenJames]

That's just an opinion, not a fact..

Welcome to this thread.