Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Thats quite funny. So, a significant majority do not want brexit. An even more significant one do not want hard brexit. But you are ever so desperate to silence them and try to hold on to the marginal majority you had in a completely corrupt referendum several years ago. That is attempting to hijack democracy. For some pretty sinister reasons. I think its quite clear to anyone reading your posts what youre really about. And its not giving your fellow citizens a democratic voice in what happen.
You know as well as i do (and by now the rest of the world do while it looks on at us making an embarassing mess of ourselves) how much brexit had to do with deliberate misinformation about immigration. It was about not wanting more open borders. Which is practically what the eu's about.
Its not,i think, xenophobia per se: its the less informed and easilly led(im trying to remain polite here) being manipulated by the likes of farage and jrm with deliberate disinformation about immigration. Fortunately i think we have seen off this resurgent fascist threat on this occasion.
Note I said if we action Brexit properly.....we won’t of course.....they will just wave the trucks through because there are no customs officers to do much else....don’t forget this applies to every U.K. or EU port of entry,it could just as easily apply to Dublin,Rotterdam or Hull,at some point for political reasons some country will decide to properly invoke WTO,then all hell will happen.
Kudos decides to sell a truck load of e-bikes to Holland,these are bikes that have been imported from China tariff free,the Dutch still have 37-80 % anti dumping duty in place,they are sold cheaply in Holland ,can’t you imagine that Dutch retailers will cry foul,English smugglers.....the Dutch will have to start checking trucks.
The EU will see us as a nation of smugglers and N.Ireland to Ireland will be a prime smuggling route,they will have to build a customs wall,even though nobody wants that.
KudosDave
Nonsense born of fear.
How can giving a final decision to the people be in any way undemocratic? It can't be of course, it's the very epitome of democracy.
We've had occasions of short one or two year governments since WW2, those quickly repeated general elections were not a betrayal of democracy.
In all cases they are an opportunity for the electorate to review their decisions in the light of more information, a very proper thing in a democracy.
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define brexit.
most people can't, because most of it is unprovable for decades to come.
If we join customs union or single market, about 15% will say it's not brexit and the rest will wonder why we brexit in the first place because we would still pay money, adopt directives and ECJ's verdicts.
If we don't, we face food price hikes and lose manufacturing jobs right away, and when we do a deal with the EU, the issue of joining the CU and SM will still be there. Back to square 1.
"...killed off by the UK’s referendum vote alone, viz. the UK’s relinquishing of its six-month presidency of the Council of the European Union, due to have started on 1 July 2017"
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/12/06/schrodingers-cat-and-the-paradox-of-brexit/
"The U.K. will relinquish its upcoming presidency of the EU Council in 2017, Downing Street said Wednesday.
Prime Minister Theresa May told European Council President Donald Tusk of the decision by phone on Tuesday evening." https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-will-relinquish-eu-presidency-in-2017/
Wheres that done now?
Adds nothing to the topic, reminds me of that loud-mouthed gobshytte that stands at the bar on a saturday night trying to impress the ladies with his cringeworthy wit - you know that sort.
Define fear.
Whatever happens won’t affect me. My industry is bullet proof to Brexit or remain. I have no fear whatever the outcome. Although if the government capitulates on this then I do think our democracy will be seen as a sham. And I’m not sure where that rabbit hole will lead. It’s not fear. It’s just sensible and reasonable thinking of an outcome given a set of circumstances.
The only vote that can reasonably be countenanced is a general election. The referendum is done. If however a political party really believes like you that the nation doesn’t want Brexit then they can put their money where their mouth is and put in their manifesto that they will revoke Article 50.
It’s the only way. Anything else will lead to constitutional and democratic crisis.
Thats not true at all. Would rather see whole thing forgotten than ref2.
We could easily be worse off than now, if remain won would best of 3 be asked for and if leave won we are in exactly same position.
Government should govern, they havent. They have caused division by putting it into a fb trial.
Perhaps the ref should be remain or May's compromised deal... But then we arent leaving at all and its not even an option.
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I can understand your position but head sticking in sand and forgetting is not an option . The current situation is UK leaves this day week. The HoC needs to make a decision of amending the withdrawal act by next Friday..using whatever methods, SI or whatever is the norm. BUT A DECISION is necessary.
Then there are other actions to be taken within the fortnight following
.. Ah so you are a funeral director. It is the only occupation which is Brexit exempt.
May i refer my Learned friend from Louth East to the following Article sub-section 4 for his perusal...
Has a minister of the crown actually made any regulation under sub-paragraph 4 yet?
But i suppose that doesn`t matter now..... seems anything goes, hey, it`s only Law..
If and it’s a big if. The only referendum that would work for me would be join the Euro or leave.
I’d actually like to see the result of that one.
There would be no constitutional and democratic crisis.
This government is patently not delivering Brexit and the HoC is incapable of delivering anything. So I agree that a GE with options both ways would be ideal. But failing that, the next best option is to let the people decide via a repeat referendum in the light of what they know now, which is infinitely more than they knew back in 2016.
After all, it was handed to the people in the first instance, so now parliament can't make up its mind it's only rational to let the people complete the process in lieu.
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I don’t think they hate us. I believe they find the U.K. more difficult to work with than other nations, but I think hate is too strong a word.
You must be able to see that the U.K’s leadership, our Senior Management Team if you like, are seriously lacking in ability. As an isolated country, we can only be as good as that leadership team. The EU has many faults, but when it comes to trade and creating prosperity, they are on a totally different and elevated level to our home grown clowns. They have wiped the floor with the U.K. so far, they have dominated, dictated all the terms and sat back and watched us tear ourselves apart. Non of that is the fault of the EU, they are simply putting the interests of their collective nations ahead of ours. That is what any sane person would expect them to do.
It’s all very well saying leave whatever the cost. What about when U.K. Plc income is down and we can’t pay the pension bill for example? Any volunteers to work into their 70s? That’s just one aspect of many.
Good post and I agree. I am not sure that the UK are even normally that difficult to deal with. The EU will have problems soon with Poland and Hungary.
Generally the UK stand by their deals.
The EU have derived no pleasure from the UKs inner turmoil. Rather they wanted to have a fair deal,and are incredibly frustrated by the petulant actions.