Brexit, for once some facts.

[anotherkiwi]

You make it sound like the whole thing is 'optional'.

So what are the 'not-optional' aspects?

This is the EU charter of rights which the UK and Poland opted out of (I have resumed for brevity):

• Dignity - guarantees the right to life and prohibits torture, slavery, the death penalty, eugenic practices and human cloning.
• Freedoms - covers liberty, personal integrity, privacy, protection of personal data, marriage, thought, religion, expression, assembly, education, work, property and asylum.
• Equality - covers equality before the law, prohibition of all discrimination including on basis of disability, age and sexual orientation, cultural, religious and linguistic diversity, the rights of children and the elderly.
• Solidarity - covers social and workers' rights including the right to fair working conditions, protection against unjustified dismissal, and access to health care, social and housing assistance.
• Citizen's Rights - covers the rights of the EU citizens such as the right to vote in election to the European Parliament and to move freely within the EU. It also includes several administrative rights such as a right to good administration, to access documents and to petition the European Parliament.
• Justice - covers justice issues such as the right to an effective remedy, a fair trial, to the presumption of innocence, the principle of legality, non-retrospectivity and double jeopardy.

The government of the Czech Republic wanted to opt out too but they were voted down by the Czech senate which is controlled by the opposition party.

Why on earth the UK parliament doesn't want UK citizens to have the rights (and obligations) in the list above is for you to decide...

 

[oldgroaner]

Do you think of our queen when you’re doing ‘it’

Please stop this!
Your previous posts provided all the evidence needed ,so
we already have a very clear understanding of your thinking and attitude.

And here you are undermining even that low estimation.

 

[Zlatan]

Oh good grief, this is pathetic, please stop.
The thread doesn't benefit from playground insults like this.

Yep, dont need to alter that one either.

 

[Zlatan]

Entirely optional within one's own borders, hence the loss of sovereignty being a fantasy.

The non-optional is the inability to export our own option choices to elsewhere in the EU. Keeping to the pedelec theme for example, the many French under 14 youngsters in London cannot ride their pedelec here, even though they could elsewhere in the EU. Conversely, if you have a legal throttle pedelec here, you cannot hop on a ferry or Eurostar and ride it legally elsewhere in the EU.

The S class speed pedelecs are another example, permitted in Germany, The Netherlands and Denmark now, but nowhere else in the EU unregistered as motor vehicles.

A more extreme example is that in France 14 year olds can drive power and speed limited cars, and for many years this was without any form of licence, though now they have to have a simple safety certificate.

And such differences are true in all areas. For example, although the EU Commission want to harmonise the age of consent, only one country has made any change, and that to a graduated penalty system, not a truly fixed age. Thus the age of consent in EU countries varies from 18 years down to 12 years for all and any form of sexual expression.

All these are demonstrations of EU countries exercising their sovereignty over EU law.
.

High cost for an advisory service Flecc.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well he hasnt supplied a source, reference so looks like he did. How low can you get. Its despicable.

Wrong again you really need to read the forum a link has been provided

 

[oldgroaner]

Yet another one who hasn't a clue what the Stockholm Syndrome is.
.

What can you expect when he couldn't actually spell it?

 

[Woosh]

Why on earth the UK parliament doesn't want UK citizens to have the rights (and obligations) in the list above

because ours is a conservative government.
Keeping up the class system.

 

[flecc]

High cost for an advisory service Flecc.

That comes free. We pay for other major things, there's the trading and services access to the world's largest market group. There's the humane aid to the less well off in either country or region within the EU. There's the support for industries where economically or sociably desirable.
.

 

[Woosh]

Well he hasnt supplied a source, reference so looks like he did. How low can you get. Its despicable.

Wrong again you really need to read the forum a link has been provided

I did, here it is:

https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/brexit-for-once-some-facts.24369/page-2359#post-484340


Lobbyists for big firms made more than 130 demands, which include:

• Changing how NHS chiefs buy drugs to suit big US pharmaceutical companies
• Britain scraps its safety-first approach to safety and food standards
• Law changes that would allow foreign companies to sue the British state
• Removal of protections for traditional British products.

Although I welcome us to have our own trade policy after brexit, we should still join the EU's customs union and single market because we'll get ripped off trying to go it alone.

 

[Zlatan]

Wrong again you really need to read the forum a link has been provided

There is neither a link or source quoted in post 46167.
The idea is OG when you provide data the poster responsible provides the source, it would be a bit silly for readers to have to research and find the source.
Seriously, where is info in 47167 from. Its not a trick question OG.
The link provided by Woosh is somewhat different and explains the list is requests from lobbyists.
Your list and comments in 46167 make the list fait accompli..
They aint. Its a list of requests. You dont bother saying that, hence lack of a source so you can put your own spin on information. Basically its none news...and you know it.
Condescending attitude from you as normal.

 

[oldgroaner]

1760 to 1840 was pretty good. This country almost single handedly dragged the world into a whole new economic paradigm.

The industrial revolution. What an amazing event. And started right here.

Rule Britannia!

The industrial Revolution only benefited the people after a huge struggle to stop the persecution of those that had to work the machines
Amazing event if for instance you were not a Child worker
hildren were preferred workers in textile mills because they worked for lower wages. Child laborers tended to be orphans, children of widows, or from the poorest families. Children were needed for low pay and nimble fingers. Child labor was not an invention of the industrial revolution, they were first exploited by their parents on the farm. Now for the first time in history children were an important factor of an economic system but at a terrible price.

Here you are have a History lesson about the wonderful benefits of the Industrial Revolution
Like Brexit, the Rich gain and the poor lose, is the case of the Industrial Revolution, with shorter and miserable lives.


Children were required to work under machines and were constantly cleaning and oiling tight areas. Young children were worked to near exhaustion, to such an extent that they would fall asleep over machines. If they were caught sleeping or showed up to work late, they were beaten and tortured by their supervisors. Cruelty and torture were enacted on children by master-manufacturers to maintain high output or to keep them awake. The children’s bodies become crooked and deformed from the work in the mills and factories. Their bodies and bones became so weak that they couldn't hold themselves up, and their backs permanently hunched.[2] Children in the mines did not have it any better. They would start working at the age of 4 or 5, both boys and girls. A large proportion of children working in the mines were under 13 and a larger proportion from ages of 13-18. Mines were not built for stability, rather, they were small and low and children were needed to crawl through them. The conditions in the mines were not remotely safe, children would often have limbs crippled, and bodies distorted or be killed. Children could get lost within the mines for days at a time. The air in the mines was injuring to breathe and could cause painful and fatal diseases...

And there is a lot more on the link below
https://webs.bcp.org/sites/vcleary/modernworldhistorytextbook/industrialrevolution/IREffects.html

Rule Britannia? not at that price.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is neither a link or source quoted in post 46167.
The idea is OG when you provide data the poster responsible provides the source, it would be a bit silly for readers to have to research and find the source.
Seriously, where is info in 47167 from. Its not a trick question OG.
The link provided by Woosh is somewhat different and explains the list is requests from lobbyists.
Your list and comments in 46167 make the list fait accompli..
They aint. Its a list of requests. You dont bother saying that, hence lack of a source so you can put your own spin on information. Basically its none news...and you know it.
Condescending attitude from you as normal.

I simply posted up the graphic, and the "spin" was this

#47,167



A Trade deal with America has just one or two little niggles attached

Why would anyone in their right mind want any of this?

The press will soon cover that up though!

And you call that spin?
Cutting all all the rest of your nonsense, i suggested you look for the link as you rarely if ever do, and esentialy that was covered by Woosh's link.
Are you denying the substance of the message? and perhaps you missed the caveat
"
"The press will soon cover that up though!"
Spin? what spin? Woosh's post cover very much the same list, did you bother to check it out?

And you actually posted this
" Well he hasnt supplied a source, reference so looks like he did. How low can you get. Its despicable.

Which post gained approval from your partner, you know the one in the rear end of the Pantomime Horse

By the way the only one who engages in "despicable" Forging , on here, so far, is you
You astonish me that after the way you have behaved you are willing to embarrass yourself further trying to blame me for behaving as you have.

 

[Zlatan]

A Trade deal with America has just one or two little niggles attached

Why would anyone in their right mind want any of this?

The press will soon cover that up though!

Nope definitely no source. Think its called Fake News these days.
And its not a Trade Deal. Its a proposed trade deal and your list is one of requests from lobbyists.
And they are not "requirements" they are requests. There is a difference.
Perhaps you should try and be more accurate with your propoganda.

 

[wheeler]

Yet another one who hasn't a clue what the Stockholm Syndrome is.
.

Not only does he not know what it is but the forum's self appointed guardian of spelling and grammar can't even spell "Syndrome".

 

[oldgroaner]

Nope definitely no source. Think its called Fake News these days.
And its not a Trade Deal. Its a proposed trade deal and your list is one of requests from lobbyists.
And they are not "requirements" they are requests. There is a difference.
Perhaps you should try and be more accurate with your propoganda.

And you with the statements you make
It is not "My Propaganda" it is simply information
There is a Difference
It is clearly marked US/UK Trade deal -US lobbyists requirements not an actual Trade Deal.
Can't you understand that? you really have a problem with reacting badly when something not to your liking appears and jumping to the wrong conclusion

How did you confuse this list with an Actual Trade Deal? I never said it was , did I?
What I said was this
"
"A Trade deal with America has just one or two little niggles attached"

It was an Allusion

• 1. an expression designed to call something to mind without mentioning it explicitly; an indirect or passing reference: "

To this on the Graphic

US/UK Trade deal -US lobbyists requirements

"A" is not the same as "This Particular" except in your imagination,so you can use it to create an argument.

 

[Zlatan]

And you with the statements you make
It is not "My Propaganda" it is simply information
There is a Difference
It is clearly marked US/UK Trade deal -US lobbyists requirements not an actual Trade Deal.
Can't you understand that? you really have a problem with reacting badly when something not to your liking appears and jumping to the wrong conclusion

How did you confuse this list with an Actual Trade Deal? I never said it was , did I?
What I said was this
"
"A Trade deal with America has just one or two little niggles attached"

It was an Allusion

• 1. an expression designed to call something to mind without mentioning it explicitly; an indirect or passing reference: "

To this on the Graphic

US/UK Trade deal -US lobbyists requirements

"A" is not the same as "This Particular" except in your imagination,so you can use it to create and argument.

You are on drugs.

 

[oldgroaner]

You are on drugs.

Yes, for High Blood pressure only.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Telegraph
New Brexit party has more than £1m in pledges and slate of over 200 candidates, including Nigel Farage

new Brexit party backed by Nigel Farage has received pledges worth more than £1million and is lining up a slate of candidates to fight in elections.
Catherine Blaiklock registered the Brexit Party on Jan 11 with the Electoral Commission and is hoping it can stand candidates in the May European Parliament elections if Brexit is delayed past that date.

And the icing on this cake
"My new Brexit party stands ready to defend democracy
Nigel Farage

Hang on a minute how can you "OWN" a political Party Nige?
I see how this democracy works
"One Man one vote!" and I'm the man said Nigel

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Guardian
"https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/09/brexit-uk-companies-discuss-moving-to-netherlands
Brexit: Netherlands talking to 250 firms about leaving UK
Dutch government says it has already gained 1,900 jobs from Britain in bid for Brexit spoils

 

[oldgroaner]

Here is another one for Zlatan to witter about, and no, unfortunately I didn't write this myself
But I wish I had

I read this and somehow certain contributors on here sprang to mind