Brexit, for once some facts.

[oyster]

The government is seeking to recruit miracle workers:

'The recruits for EUXE must be able to “see the emergency trends with little or no information and act appropriately at pace”. '

Brexit crisis command centre starts hiring civilians
Exclusive: recruiters told military-style operation could stay open for two years
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/08/brexit-no-deal-crisis-command-centre-starts-hiring-civilians

 

[Kudoscycles]

Another government bribe coming up....Thanet council was due to stop funding the ferry port at Ramsgate unless the new dodgy ferry company signed up to use the port. The council needs to save £1.8million off its budget and the port costs £770k,without the ferry company it was wasting money.
No ferry company has ever made money out of Ramsgate,they built a £32m tunnel to improve access,EU funded! Every ferry firm that runs out of Ramsgate grabs the subsidies,usually EU,then packs up after a few years. I have no doubt the £14m contract that the government have offered Seafreight will go the same way.
Chris Grayling has asked the council to delay the decision,no doubt to figure a way of bribing the council to keep the port open. This is despite Ostend saying that they wont be ready for months to receive the ferries.
Perhaps they could use the £800k that the government have set aside for fighting the legal action against Eurotunnel,who legally had a right to be included in any new ferry bidding.
Thanet council historically are the most corrupt council in the UK,this government are equally devious,sort of like King Kong meets Godzilla,hehe
KudosDave

 

[OxygenJames]

Not one of the Cabinet Ministers in Westminster has been directly elected to that position by the people. But they were selected, by the people you elected. The same is exactly the situation in the EU. The Commissioner is the equivalent of a Minister,and is the person who sponsors legislation, but the EU Parliament which is directly elected has the final say.
I can understand why from a UK perspective,you would see the EU parliament as irrelevant .. see the Muppets you choose to represent you. But we take it more seriously.

To be a cabinet minister you have to be elected as an MP.

Some of the top posts at the EU - correct me if I am wrong - the people have not been elected AT ALL.

Like I say - I could be wrong - but that is my understanding.

 

[OxygenJames]

I've always understood your point Zlatan, and seen the truths within.

The problem is that the EU simply cannot do anything about it, other than ask and set an example as Danidl explained in his post that I linked to above. The cures for racism and democratic deficiencies are in the hands of the member countries.

I don't see leaving and losing all influence as a solution, if anything it just allows the problem to continue with us looking on helpless.

I prefer to head for a united Europe solution with improving standards in every respect and us playing a full part in that.
.

Yes me thinks Zlatan's slight problem may well be an implicit goal of equality of outcome. Equality of outcome is a terrible type of equality. Its like saying any profession should have the same % of members of any group as a proportion that they exist in the group itself.

So for example seeing as we have 50% women an equality of outcome goal would insist that 50% of roofers or truck drivers or logging workers (to name three of the most popular male-dominated 'professions') - must also all have 50% women in them.

It's equality gone mad.

Maybe some 'races' (**** knows the politically correct term I am supposed to use these days) don't want to be politicians. Who knows.

But forcing the numbers to reflect the large-group make-up is ridiculous (though exactly where government policy is going now as we head into this ill-conceived post-modernist-third-wave-feminist future).

 

[flecc]

Also I think it is important to say that Scotland is not a country in the same England is not a country.

Both Scotland and England are separate countries and have been so for hundreds of years.

More importantly they are separate nations with nationalities, something the UK and Great Britain do not have, since as federation of countries they are a mix of nations.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Yes me thinks Zlatan's slight problem may well be an implicit goal of equality of outcome. Equality of outcome is a terrible type of equality. Its like saying any profession should have the same % of members of any group as a proportion that they exist in the group itself.

So for example seeing as we have 50% women an equality of outcome goal would insist that 50% of roofers or truck drivers or logging workers (to name three of the most popular male-dominated 'professions') - must also all have 50% women in them.

It's equality gone mad.

Maybe some 'races' (**** knows the politically correct term I am supposed to use these days) don't want to be politicians. Who knows.

But forcing the numbers to reflect the large-group make-up is ridiculous (though exactly where government policy is going now as we head into this ill-conceived post-modernist-third-wave-feminist future).

I actually totally agree but having zero is "more" wrong.
And I never said we should end up with an absolutely equal balance. I said the folk governing should reflect the ethnicities, race, colur and gender of those governed. To be fair our UK government is a world leader in this respect, yet I, ve often grumbled at the system that put Diane Abott where she is. There is a compromise. A good, fair and equal way forward.
That IMO eludes the EU as it stands. Or perhaps some really think all those white males running EU are acttually the best possible for the job. I doubt it.
I always find it interesting the number of men who insist there is no gender issue within society, the number of white midlle class males insisting racism or elitism does not exist. You dont need to look hard to see gross unfairness in most countries and IMO especially the EU, even tho EU has this image of being some kind of socialist equal opportunity utopia. It isnt.
Much of EU is plagued with racism far more so than in UK. (statistics are available to demonstrate this)
Yes, I see Fleccs point, its not the responsibility of EU. If it isnt.. What are they doing to not appear a bunch of middle class white males telling us how to behave.

 

[Wicky]

And here in the UK we have unelected Civil Servants...

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/may/31/senior-civil-servants-salaries-data

 

[Kudoscycles]

I wonder how many BOB's are out there....Bored of Brexit.
If there was a second referendum Remain could rely on the BOB vote,Leave could carry on negotiating indefinitely whereas Remain should bring it all to a swift conclusion and we could get back to talking about illegal electric bikes,hehe !!
KudosDave

 

[Fingers]

I actually totally agree but having zero is "more" wrong.
And I never said we should end up with an absolutely equal balance. I said the folk governing should reflect the ethnicities, race, colur and gender of those governed. To be fair our UK government is a world leader in this respect, yet I, ve often grumbled at the system that put Diane Abott where she is. There is a compromise. A good, fair and equal way forward.
That IMO eludes the EU as it stands. Or perhaps some really think all those white males running EU are acttually the best possible for the job. I doubt it.
I always find it interesting the number of men who insist there is no gender issue within society, the number of white midlle class males insisting racism or elitism does not exist. You dont need to look hard to see gross unfairness in most countries and IMO especially the EU, even tho EU has this image of being some kind of socialist equal opportunity utopia. It isnt.
Much of EU is plagued with racism far more so than in UK. (statistics are available to demonstrate this)
Yes, I see Fleccs point, its not the responsibility of EU. If it isnt.. What are they doing to not appear a bunch of middle class white males telling us how to behave.

You only have to see the football grounds of Europe to see the deep seated and ingrained racism that exists on the continent.

The EU does nothing to stop even the most blatant of racism in member states. Hungary has been given the equivalent of a tut.

If it doesn't make money or isn't a French farmer it's not a priority.

 

[Danidl]

To be a cabinet minister you have to be elected as an MP.

Some of the top posts at the EU - correct me if I am wrong - the people have not been elected AT ALL.

Like I say - I could be wrong - but that is my understanding.

You could be and in fact are wrong. I have given you the facts. Commissioners are persons selected by the cabinets of each of the EU states. That is basically the same as any Cabinet Minister in any democratic country. .They are selected by the directly elected members. In most cases they are long serving Ministers in their respective countries.
The MEPs are Directly elected.

I am not sure there is any provision in constitutional law, that requires a Cabinet minister to be actually elected as an MP ..it is conventional practice certainly but not mandatory... If you go back to the UK War Cabinet of Churchill, there were a number of Lords in it ,so they were not directly elected.
I can assert that our Dail did at one stage have a Minister who had not been a TD

 

[Fingers]

You could be and in fact are wrong. I have given you the facts. Commissioners are persons selected by the cabinets of each of the EU states. That is basically the same as any Cabinet Minister in any democratic country. .They are selected by the directly elected members. In most cases they are long serving Ministers in their respective countries.
The MEPs are Directly elected.

I am not sure there is any provision in constitutional law, that requires a Cabinet minister to be actually elected as an MP ..it is conventional practice certainly but not mandatory... If you go back to the UK War Cabinet of Churchill, there were a number of Lords in it ,so they were not directly elected.
I can assert that our Dail did at one stage have a Minister who had not been a TD

I know for a fact that no one in Britain voted for Juncker.

No one.

Yet here we are.

 

[Woosh]

You could be and in fact are wrong. I have given you the facts. Commissioners are persons selected by the cabinets of each of the EU states. That is basically the same as any Cabinet Minister in any democratic country. .They are selected by the directly elected members. In most cases they are long serving Ministers in their respective countries.
The MEPs are Directly elected.

I think you waste your time trying to explain.
Zlatan knows as much as any poster on this thread how the EU works and demands that you justify why the EU is what it is.

He just winds you up.

 

[Zlatan]

I know for a fact that no one in Britain voted for Juncker.

No one.

Yet here we are.

I think that is part of the disconnect associated with EU. Firstly the low turn out is bad enough but then the simple fact of numbers, logistics involved.
If we really wanted rid of Tories we could actually do it... Had enough of you remainers voted according to each party's mandate... Lib dems would now be in power...
No matter what we thought our affect at Brussels is at best minimal... Cant remember actual figure but by population our combined affect would be around 12,%...And before somebody comes back and wuotes USA, I dont want their system either. Our good old antiquated flawed model of democracy is best of a bad lot.

 

[Zlatan]

I think you waste your time trying to explain.
Zlatan knows as much as any poster on this thread how the EU works and demands that you justify why the EU is what it is.

He just winds you up.

I, ll take that as a compliment Woosh. I, d have to reluctantly agree Commisioners/EU council are on a par with our own Cabinet with reference to theoretical democratic legitimacy..
My grumble is the disaccociation and disconnect between population and EU government.
To be fair I didnt pose the question.
But Fingers is correct. Any of top EU appointments/officials could be put in place without a single vote from Uk or its MEPs. I believe even by EU, comisioners are looked upon as appointed civil servants, but to be fair we have our own share of them too.

 

[Woosh]

My grumble is the disaccociation and disconnect between population and EU government.

unless you make voting compulsory (like in Belgium, Malta, Australia etc) - turn out at EP elections is bound to be low.
The EU is a construct of governments, not of their 500 million citizens.
The direct vote for the EP is just a feeble step to widen their appeal to the public and their participation, a bit like trying to get Supreme Court justices elected by the general public.
I actually did not vote in the last EP election 2014.
Turnout in EP 2014 in Southend on Sea: 37.8%
UKIP got 37.1% of the total. We are in UKIP territory.

 

[Fingers]

unless you make voting compulsory (like in Belgium, Malta, Australia etc) - turn out at EP elections is bound to be low.
The EU is a construct of governments, not of their 500 million citizens.
The direct vote for the EP is just a feeble step to widen their appeal to the public and their participation, a bit like trying to get Supreme Court justices elected by the general public.
I actually did not vote in the last EP election 2014.

They should have a prize draw with the ballots after they have counted them.

Imagine if a BNP winner won and he was a judge or a policewoman.

Scenes!

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think that is part of the disconnect associated with EU. Firstly the low turn out is bad enough but then the simple fact of numbers, logistics involved.
If we really wanted rid of Tories we could actually do it... Had enough of you remainers voted according to each party's mandate... Lib dems would now be in power...
No matter what we thought our affect at Brussels is at best minimal... Cant remember actual figure but by population our combined affect would be around 12,%...And before somebody comes back and wuotes USA, I dont want their system either. Our good old antiquated flawed model of democracy is best of a bad lot.

The conservative party could have stayed in the leading group (EPP), instead they prefer being with this lot:

One of the big winners of the 2014 elections, the group rose to third place, despite a drop in support for one of its biggest components, the UK Conservatives. The origin of this group can be found in David Cameron’s desire for the Conservatives to leave the federalist EPP and set up a new right-of-centre Eurosceptic group at the time of the 2009 elections. Alongside the Conservatives, the biggest delegation is Poland’s Law and Justice Party, and the group also contains – among others – the Ulster Unionists and Alternative for Germany party. Broadly centre-right and Eurosceptic, it contains a mixture of groups that are more socially conservative and those that promote economic liberalism.

The text comes from a politically correct EU site, I would say far-right is a better description for most members...

 

[Danidl]

I know for a fact that no one in Britain voted for Juncker.

No one.

Yet here we are.

And no one in Ireland voted for Farage,yet here we are.

 

[Fingers]

And no one in Ireland voted for Farage,yet here we are.

That doesn't make sense.

You could have said Mandleson. That would have worked.

 

[Danidl]

I think you waste your time trying to explain.
Zlatan knows as much as any poster on this thread how the EU works and demands that you justify why the EU is what it is.

He just winds you up.

It actually was the OJ person, but I take your point. I take as my model John Hume ,who answered the bigoted, the ignorant ,the invincibly ignorant , the curious , and those few who were prepared to learn with courtesy and decency for decades . Now , ,I know I don't have Nobel prize reserves of patience, but will continue to do so while a glimmer of hope remains. ..in other words 30 th March.