Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Maybe thats the problem. Seeing as the commission is arguably the most powerful institution at the EU.

As said, intentional for a purpose, not to be a problem.

But there are several democratic elements:

No country has to join the EU.

Member countries can refuse to pass a treaty.

Every EU law passed down to members has a time period in which they can ask for change or reject the measure.

How any accepted law is implemented within each country's borders is only for the country to decide, not the EU. Our DfT could permit us to have 1000 watts and 25 mph assist for example.

Commission members are only in post for five years.

How many Brexiters realise all these freedoms exist and that their own government is to blame for many of the ills they blame the EU for?

Very few I expect, so perhaps that's the bigger problem.
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[oldgroaner]

Are you happy eith the EU as it stands Dani? Do you think its make up is a fair reflection of the people it purports to represent?

What, if anything would you change about the EU?

The EU represents the Government of the 27 Sovereign States who in turn determine how its own individual MEPs are selected.
You are making the same spurious argument Zlatan was again

 

[oldgroaner]

To be a cabinet minister you have to be elected as an MP.

Some of the top posts at the EU - correct me if I am wrong - the people have not been elected AT ALL.

Like I say - I could be wrong - but that is my understanding.

You are, and a lot of quango posts in our Government are not elected

 

[flecc]

Farage is not head of the EU commission or whatever Juncker is head of.

Juncker was head of the Commission for five years and that ends this year, very soon in fact. He'll shortly disappear from view.

Wish I could say the same about Farage.
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[oldgroaner]

I actually totally agree but having zero is "more" wrong.
And I never said we should end up with an absolutely equal balance. I said the folk governing should reflect the ethnicities, race, colur and gender of those governed. To be fair our UK government is a world leader in this respect, yet I, ve often grumbled at the system that put Diane Abott where she is. There is a compromise. A good, fair and equal way forward.
That IMO eludes the EU as it stands. Or perhaps some really think all those white males running EU are acttually the best possible for the job. I doubt it.
I always find it interesting the number of men who insist there is no gender issue within society, the number of white midlle class males insisting racism or elitism does not exist. You dont need to look hard to see gross unfairness in most countries and IMO especially the EU, even tho EU has this image of being some kind of socialist equal opportunity utopia. It isnt.
Much of EU is plagued with racism far more so than in UK. (statistics are available to demonstrate this)
Yes, I see Fleccs point, its not the responsibility of EU. If it isnt.. What are they doing to not appear a bunch of middle class white males telling us how to behave.

The EU doesn't tell us how to behave that's another one of the Urban Myths you keep trotting out. We make agreements with them and undertake to comply.

 

[oldgroaner]

You only have to see the football grounds of Europe to see the deep seated and ingrained racism that exists on the continent.

The EU does nothing to stop even the most blatant of racism in member states. Hungary has been given the equivalent of a tut.

If it doesn't make money or isn't a French farmer it's not a priority.

Same old trope time after time the EU is not a Super State, when it is it can take action on this sort of thing, till that it is a local Government responsibility.

 

[oldgroaner]

If I am right (again correct me if I am wrong in the post above) - then THIS is the problem with the EU - we didn't actually get to vote for those people - its not real democracy - its too distant.

No wonder only thirty something percent bother turning out to vote.

Do you really think if the Conservative Goernment had not run the Austerity program to the detriment of the lower classes the referendum Vote would have been anything like it turned out to be?
They wouldn't have given a damn about membership of the EU

 

[Fingers]

Same old trope time after time the EU is not a Super State, when it is it can take action on this sort of thing, till that it is a local Government responsibility.

I didn't say it was and I didn't say it could.

It can suspend or kick out Hungary though.

 

[Deleted member 128]

No one pretends that the EU is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that the EU is the worst form of trading partnership except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
With due acknowledgement to Winston Churchill, House of Commons, November 11, 1947.

 

[Fingers]

No one pretends that the EU is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that the EU is the worst form of trading partnership except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.
With due acknowledgement to Winston Churchill, House of Commons, November 11, 1947.

Oh dear.

Are you trying to do a funny?

 

[OxygenJames]

You are, and a lot of quango posts in our Government are not elected

Quango posts do not have the power the EU commissioners have!

 

[oldgroaner]

Here is another unanticipated situation

 

[tommie]

Because we only joined to rip off the UK and disrupt the way it operates.

Yes, very true...

 

[oldgroaner]

Quango posts do not have the power the EU commissioners have!

And what is the extent of the powers involved?
The Commission can only propose laws in those areas where the EU governments have unanimously agreed to allow it to do under the EU treaty. Put another way, the Commission can only propose EU laws in areas where the UK government and the House of Commons has allowed it to do so.
So what's your problem with that?
So much for the great power they have, which is to carry out orders our Government give.

 

[Danidl]

So I was right - they are not actually elected. The EU commissioners.

Boris won an actual election (meaning Jo Public voted for him) - none of the EU commissioners did.

THAT was my point.

No.. the vast majority would have been senior ministers in their respective governments, not civil servants. Some indeed were recent prime ministers.The quality of the portfolio depends on the calibre of the candidate,and most countries want to gain prestigious portfolios. I am not aware that any would have been selected from outside the political system ..but it would be open to any government to select any Muppet they wanted. Just as Mrs May could select any Muppet for her cabinet. Now I have explained this enough times, your point is pointless ,so I am not responding ..

 

[tommie]

So I was right - they are not actually elected. The EU commissioners.

Boris won an actual election (meaning Jo Public voted for him) - none of the EU commissioners did.

THAT was my point.

That is absolutely correct.

They were "elected", and i use that word in the loosest terms possible, by a Clique, a Cabal, an Inner Circle of the most corrupt and reprehensible morons you could ever think of.

They are Unaccountable to me, you, anyone,.... basically untouchable.

 

[flecc]

Quango posts do not have the power the EU commissioners have!

Absolutely not true, the EU Commission only has the power to suggest, not to implement, many of their promoted measures are rejected, one of them recently would have affected we e-bikers had it not been rejected.

Conversely many quangos have absolute ruling power in their area of governance.
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[flecc]

That is absolutely correct.

They were "elected", and i use that word in the loosest terms possible, by a Clique, a Cabal, an Inner Circle of the most corrupt and reprehensible morons you could ever think of.

They are Unaccountable to me, you, anyone,.... basically untouchable.

So what, they can't do anything without the permission of the elected EU parliament.
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[Zlatan]

Yes, very true...

I didnt need to alter that one. OG is coming to his senses...

 

[Danidl]

That is absolutely correct.

They were "elected", and i use that word in the loosest terms possible, by a Clique, a Cabal, an Inner Circle of the most corrupt and reprehensible morons you could ever think of.

They are Unaccountable to me, you, anyone,.... basically untouchable.

Please Tommie..that is no way for you to talk about the DUP,