Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

So let's say 'remain' win this time - with another slim majority - but this time with less actual numbers than 17.4m.

The Remain vote would jump substantially and would easily exceed that 17.4 millions. As polls and questionaires have shown, large numbers of the remainer inclined didn't bother to vote due to the same complacency that our politians had, they were certain Remain would win.

They won't make that mistake again.

I'm confident that the largest number not bothering to vote again will be among Leavers, due to their disillusionment with the way they've been let down this time after winning. "What's the use?" will be a common feeling among them, and public questionaires have been showing that.
.

 

[flecc]

Woosh said:
did you watch BBCQT last night? John Healey for Labour had a bit of difficulty explaining Labour's position on brexit.

have they got one???

Yes, fence and perch are important components.
.

 

[Fingers]

No it simply wasn't, was it? the leave campaigners all categorically denied we would have to leave either

Why are you still pushing these blatant lies?

Remaining in both the Single Market and Customs Union was promised by these clowns
and now you come along pretending that events something entirely different?
People most certainly did not vote to leave either did they? as they were promised the exact opposite.

That's the problem with leave supporters, they simply lie when the truth doesn't suit them.

Err no. Tom/ @jonathan.agnew is the biggest liar here. And he's remain!

 

[Fingers]

Welcome to the BBC
(Actually shortly to be known as the Belgian Broadcasting Corporation)
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/24/bbc-international-hq-belgium-brexit-netherlands-ireland-eu?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Tweet
BBC considers setting up international base in Belgium after Brexit
Move to a EU member state needed for licence to continue broadcasting across continent
The BBC will need EU-based licences for its international channels – which include BBC World, BBC Entertainment, BBC First, and BBC Earth – if it wishes to have them broadcast across the rest of Europe either after 29 March, if the UK leaves without a deal, or after the transition period, should Theresa May’s agreement be approved by parliament.


The prime minister has been seeking to include the audiovisual industry in a free trade agreement to avoid the problem, but her pleas have been ignored.

Well it's all good fun isn't it? the comedy rolls on relentlessly day after day.

Brexit provides more surprises but poorer gags than a cheap box of Xmas Crackers

The EBU will be waiting outside the BBC offices in Central London the day after begging for them to stay.

 

[OxygenJames]

Anyone see a guy named James Delingpole on this week?
What an idiot....
He was trying to suggest that Theresa May should crash out without a deal because she was a zombie government.
Andrew Niel was asking him about the bad effects of No Deal Brexit....
He asked him what about the hill farmers who would immediately be hit with a 40% tariff on all EU sales,which represents 50% of their revenue...JD said he didnt know about that. I am amazed that any sheep farmers voted leave,but many did.
He asked him about the cheese producers (Castle Combe International) who would be hit by 37%-235% (Canada),JD said he didnt know about that.
He asked him about the problems at JLR,he clearly didnt understand that,I cannot understand why any UK car workers voted Leave,they are voting themselves out of jobs and China will not save us,they are not buying Range Rovers anymore.
Rees-Mogg recently said that if Dover-Calais ferries were disrupted then we can always use Dover-Rotterdam,the idiot ,that would need 10 times as many ferries and burn 10 times the fuel.
Liam Fox is considered by most top business guys as lightweight,I agree...would you want him replacing the EU as a trade negotiator?
God help us if the Brexiteers get in charge of Brexit,they have no idea what hard Brexit actually means. I suppose they dont really care as long as the price of pheasant and foie gras is not affected !!!!
KudosDave

Yes I saw him - on 'The Week' with Andrew O'Neill. He was an embarrassment. The two Labour MPs had a field day tearing him apart.

 

[OxygenJames]

Access to both the single market and customs union were offered by the leave camp on the run up to the referendum, later they simply lied and said they never said anything of the sort.

'Access' to the single market and 'being a member' are two completely different things. Anybody can have 'access' - you don't have to be a member to have access.

Contrary to your pick-and-choose examples it was made plain and simple to us all that leaving meant leaving both the customs union and the single market.

 

[OxygenJames]

That's one of the advantages of having one that works

I've not noticed you employ that facility to any great extent.

 

[Fingers]

The Remain vote would jump substantially and would easily exceed that 17.4 millions. As polls and questionaires have shown, large numbers of the remainer inclined didn't bother to vote due to the same complacency that our politians had, they were certain Remain would win.

They won't make that mistake again.

I'm confident that the largest number not bothering to vote again will be among Leavers, due to their disillusionment with the way they've been let down this time after winning. "What's the use?" will be a common feeling among them, and public questionaires have been showing that.
.

This line is often trotted out but the facts are this was the biggest turnout for a vote in the history of Britain.

How many more people do you think will vote?

Everything points to a decrease in numbers and that will be a bigger problem. There will be big campaigns saying do not vote as it's a sham and means nothong.

The protest will be schocking.

 

[Kudoscycles]

'Access' to the single market and 'being a member' are two completely different things. Anybody can have 'access' - you don't have to be a member to have access.

Contrary to your pick-and-choose examples it was made plain and simple to us all that leaving meant leaving both the customs union and the single market.

But how do you compensate the thousands of small/medium businesses that will suffer badly in the event of no deal.....these tariffs are not always small percentages. No business could survive if it’s customers suffered 40% tariffs.....that Canada tariff on cheese of 230% is criminal.
The government should subsidise those businesses to compensate and take the money out of the tax system,so that we all share the pain..
What will obviously happen is the customers will find local sources that are tariff free .
Yet Brexiters revert to ‘17.4 million voted to leave,now get on with it’. I bet not one of that 17.4 million realised the end result of no deal leaving.
I am lucky that tariffs on engineering items average 2.7% and many products can be 0%,but I would be very concerned if I sold food.

 

[Fingers]

But how do you compensate the thousands of small/medium businesses that will suffer badly in the event of no deal.....these tariffs are not always small percentages. No business could survive if it’s customers suffered 40% tariffs.....that Canada tariff on cheese of 230% is criminal.
The government should subsidise those businesses to compensate and take the money out of the tax system,so that we all share the pain..
What will obviously happen is the customers will find local sources that are tariff free .
Yet Brexiters revert to ‘17.4 million voted to leave,now get on with it’. I bet not one of that 17.4 million realised the end result of no deal leaving.
I am lucky that tariffs on engineering items average 2.7% and many products can be 0%,but I would be very concerned if I sold food.

There will be a shock no doubt. Hopefully the government of the day can build in a hardship fund with the money we save.

But we should be leaving no matter how difficult it is. The vote was clear.

 

[flecc]

This line is often trotted out but the facts are this was the biggest turnout for a vote in the history of Britain.

How many more people do you think will vote?

Of course, the issue was a popular one for a change, rather than the party ones, ensuring a large turnout. But the biggest gainer from that was Leave since there was at last a chance for change, or so they thought before being let down.

These events will make Remain the gainer this time, and I see a Remain vote possibly reaching 18 millions. There's hardly any changing of minds of course, the swing will be entirely due to voting will.

Campaigns wont help anyone, nobody is going to believe a word from campaigners on either side after this last experience.
.

 

[gray198]

The Remain vote would jump substantially and would easily exceed that 17.4 millions. As polls and questionaires have shown, large numbers of the remainer inclined didn't bother to vote due to the same complacency that our politians had, they were certain Remain would win.

They won't make that mistake again.

I'm confident that the largest number not bothering to vote again will be among Leavers, due to their disillusionment with the way they've been let down this time after winning. "What's the use?" will be a common feeling among them, and public questionaires have been showing that.
.

so that would be a valid result then and the result would have to be accepted???

 

[Woosh]

But we should be leaving no matter how difficult it is. The vote was clear.

if it's trivial money, then there wouldn't be so much debate going on.
If the opposite is true, then shouldn't we go for the least cost option or a second opinion?

 

[flecc]

so that would be a valid result then and the result would have to be accepted???

Just like any election, the latest result is the valid one.

The argument you are trying to make falls down at the 1975 referendum which was a Remain win.

Saying people didn't realise what they were voting for then, or that they were lied to, is no different this time. Again no-one knew what was involved and again they were extensively lied to.
.

 

[gray198]

But how do you compensate the thousands of small/medium businesses that will suffer badly in the event of no deal.....these tariffs are not always small percentages. No business could survive if it’s customers suffered 40% tariffs.....that Canada tariff on cheese of 230% is criminal.

aren't there a significant amount of businesses in this country who have nothing to do with the EU but are subject to all the rules and regulations. Maybe they will be glad to see the back of them and thrive without EU restrictions. Of course we don't hear from mant of these small companies, just the big ones who love the endless supply of cheap labour

 

[tommie]

It`s highly amusing to see the Losers in panic mode,

So he’s gone from no hard border to an armed one in 24 hours. Impressive!! - in a way - to manage an even more farcical u-turn than the EU commission managed this week.

They are definitely beginning to lose it!

Troops could return to Irish border "if things go very wrong" with #Brexit, warns Irish PM Leo Varadkar

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46998533?ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_politics&ns_mchannel=social&ns_linkname=news_central

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar said a hard border could "involve people in uniform... possibly a police presence, or an army presence to back it up".

Mr Varadkar added that Ireland had been "victimised" by the Brexit process.

 

[Woosh]

aren't there a significant amount of businesses in this country who have nothing to do with the EU but are subject to all the rules and regulations. Maybe they will be glad to see the back of them and thrive without EU restrictions. Of course we don't hear from mant of these small companies, just the big ones who love the endless supply of cheap labour

those rules and regulations are there to protect all of us.
Do you expect that they will vanish after brexit?

 

[flecc]

aren't there a significant amount of businesses in this country who have nothing to do with the EU but are subject to all the rules and regulations. Maybe they will be glad to see the back of them and thrive without EU restrictions.

They are mostly consumer protections, looking after our welfare and a major reason why I don't want to leave the EU.

Of course many small businesses would like to see them gone so they could rip us off again, some large businesses too. A return to Resale Price Maintenance and Price Fixing and no Consumer Rights Act would suit them just fine.
.

 

[gray198]

Just like any election, the latest result is the valid one.

The argument you are trying to make falls down at the 1975 referendum which was a Remain win.

Saying people didn't realise what they were voting for then, or that they were lied to, is no different this time. Again no-one knew what was involved and again they were extensively lied to.
.

I am not making that argument. The result in 2016 was the latest one so why do we need another. The only reason is that we didn't vote the way they wanted us to. I don't recall any fuss over Welsh devolution ref when they won with .3% a majority of 6000 votes or the 2016 Police and crime commissioner refs where the vote in some places was as low as 18%. The campaign to stop it happening is something our MP's should be ashamed of. The statement ''we respect the result of the referendum'' is BS and everybody knows it, perhaps with the exception of those spouting it. TM is being blamed for the mess. Personally I blame the MP's who decided they were not going to respect the result. If they had all got on with the job they were tasked with after nearly all voting to give us the choice and then to activate article 50 it would have been sorted now. And then they wonder why people don't have any faith in them

 

[gray198]

those rules and regulations are there to protect all of us.
Do you expect that they will vanish after brexit?

protect us from what??